COVID shot

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COVID shot

Post by suboxdoc »

I get comments on my blog, http://suboxonetalk.comwhere I've written extensively about my recent battle with blood clots in my lungs, about the COVID vaccine and its possible role in clotting problems. If you have thoughts on the topic, know of a person who had a strange clot history, have a link to share, etc, post in that forum. As always, thanks for stopping by and sharing.
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Re: COVID shot

Post by Cytokrom C »

For what it is worth, European medical agencies as well as the FDA have acknowledged blood clotting as a very rare (<1/100 000) side effect of adenovirus based COVID vaccines (e.g. the J&J and AZ vaccines) See e.g:
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/coron ... lood-clots

Of course it is impossible to know causation in individual cases, but if you received any of these vaccines there is at least a remote possibility that there is a connection (if you were extremely unlucky).

Assessment of side effects is really tricky and complex, especially for mass-treatments like vaccines. Since so many get them, all sorts of medical events are bound to happen in relation to dosing, regardless of connection to the vaccine, so causation is difficult to assess. Therefore, I think us lay people have to rely on expert analyses from the medical agencies who are better equipped to properly analyze the data. Anecdotal discussions or reporting on anonymous internet forums might do more harm than good... But do make sure this event is reported to the FDA to give them relevant data to analyze:
https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biol ... rse-events
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Re: COVID shot

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Interesting. The study you mentioned applies to the J and J vaccine, which didn't use mRNA to insert spike protein into muscle cells. I realize that the J and J vaccine has been linked to clotting abnormalities. But most of the concern out there is about the mRNA vaccines, where little data about side effects has been released, and what has been released has been suppressed. Most of the concern that I hear about applies to the insertion of mRNA for spike protein into the bloodstream, and the amount of that mRNA that gets picked up by cells that are not part of deltoid muscles -- including myocardial cells. The release of spike protein by those cells triggers inflammation and myocarditis, a risk that wasn't described when the vaccines were first pushed on the American people.

In normal times I would agree with you -- that the issue is complicated and best left to scientists and epidemiologists to figure out. But these are not normal times. Many doctors -- including some with far more knowledge than government bureaucrats like Fauci -- have raised concerns based on their real-world experience. I understand that the left, at least these days, places lots of trust in government. But government 'experts' have an incredible record of getting things wrong, ranging from expectations for a new 'green economy' (which has resulted in increased CO2 emissions this year from increased use of coal), expectations for low or 'transitory' inflation, and massive spending that has released a wave of inflation. Government experts are not the smartest guys in the room now, if they ever were.

Pathologists have reported clotting witnessed in autopsies that they have never seen before. Many individual docs have reported strange cases of cardiac death in young people. The surgeon general of Florida (who the left despises) found an 84% increase in cardiac deaths in young men in the 4 weeks following the COVID vaccine. And the clot that almost killed me probably happened two years ago, shortly after my mRNA vaccine. Why 2 yrs ago? Anecdotal evidence isn't great, but it is often the finding that initiates a study (if anyone wanted to study it). I also have a patient with a very rare clot in her sigmoid sinus that formed after her COVID shot.

The site you listed is for all vaccines, and so reporting will likely be related to the vaccines given early in life, and maybe vaccines for influenza. I am not aware of any effort to gather information related to the vaccines for COVID, in particular the mRNA vaccines. The coercion involved in those vaccines violated the principle of informed consent, as 1. the benefits were hugely overstated, and 2. the risks (including myocarditis) were not mentioned at all. Beyond those problems, informed consent is never valid in the presence of coercion, e.g. get the shot or lose your job and your ability to travel. The U.S. government moved into an area where we have never been before -- doing something one might expect from China, but not here. Biden owns that coercion, and he owns whatever problems the public learns about down the line. Given the intense secrecy about the clinical trials, I expect that history to be interesting. I hope I live long enough to hear history's take on coerced vaccinations using an entirely new type of vaccine.

I appreciate your comment, but you and I have different views of the people currently in charge. Frankly, I have no trust in the Biden administration to tell the truth, about anything. And unlike the time under Trump, there are no 'media watchdogs' these days. That's a bad combination, which leaves me with little faith in 'government experts' these days!

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Re: COVID shot

Post by Cytokrom C »

I read the CTEPH back-story on the blog site. Quite a scary experience and am so glad you pulled through!

I am not from or in the US and have no concept or opinion on US policy or the Biden administration. I just know a thing or two regarding the complexity of side effect assessment and wanted to caution against drawing conclusions on insufficient or anecdotal data (esp. when better comprehensive and meticulously analyzed data is available...). We humans are experts at fooling ourselves if we are not careful... Reading your blog I deduct you are a smart guy that already knows this so this was probably wasted on you, but perhaps someone else is reading... :)

I do not share your experience that side effects are hidden or downplayed or that agencies are incompetent. I read about myocarditis and endocarditis issues with mRNA vaccines at least a year ago in one of the regular COVID vaccine safety updates published by my country's medical agency. The same report series also informed about the blood clotting. While I have not followed US reporting, the myocarditis as well as the blood clotting information is clearly stated in the prescribing information and on a quick search CDC seems to have a webpage about it:
https://www.fda.gov/media/155675/download
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... ditis.html

Perhaps you just have not looked at the right places or subscribed to the right newsletters?

And beware of getting sucked into internet rabbit holes. There are a lot of alternative "facts" out there and it appears that the combination of "Covid" and "vaccines" is catnip for conspiracy theorists...
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Re: COVID shot

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Thank you for sharing your perspective.

I don't know what it was like for you in your country. Here in the US, we have all seen many, many press conferences with Dr. Fauci, where he clearly overstated the effectiveness of the vaccine. It is easy to go onto youtube and watch his press conferences; he said many times that vaccinations were necessary to 'end the pandemic'. Biden said the same, many many times. That was a gross overstatement of effectiveness -- something that in the USA, anyway, would result in charges of fraud from the FDA. Here it was a routine thing for over a year.

I have never heard a government official mention mycarditis. Everything is on youtube these days, so if you have an example of a government official presenting the risks of the vaccine, please share it. Maybe you heard it in your country, but I never heard it here from Fauci, or from the Biden administration. The FDA requires all drug manufacturers to spend 'equal time' on risks and benefits, meaning that 10 minutes recommending a medication MUST, by law, include 10 minutes (at least) presenting problems associated with the medication. Nothing like that happened here in the US, where government officials (Dems anyway) repeatedly and falsely touted benefits, without mention of any risks. Benefits included preventing infection (false), ending spread of COVID (false), and helping to end the pandemic (false). The result, besides the lies, was to create intense division in the country... something the 'great uniter' was elected to avoid.

I'm smart, yes. But it doesn't take much intelligence, in the US anyway, to remember what we all experienced. Those lies led to people -- ordinary people -- losing their jobs. One of my patients recently received a letter of apology from the company that fired him, now that they are desperate for workers... but he is employed by another company and told them to kiss off. Good for him.

We typically received a packet to read before the vaccine. Mine was given to me right before I got my shot -- after standing in a line for 20 minutes, with people behind me. I did not hold up the line to read the packet, and neither did anyone else in the time I was there. But by the FDA's own definition, that would not count as 'informed consent', which requires 1. a discussion with a physician, 2. presentation of all risks and all possible benefits, 3. options that do not include treatment with that drug, and 4. time to carefully consider that information. None of that was provided in this country. Handing a person a hand-out does not constitute informed consent here. Maybe it is differet for you.

Again, thank your for sharing. You are lucky to live somewhere where people are adequately educated about the risks of medical treatment, before such treatment was forced upon them. Here. half the country has been ostracized and blamed for a pandemic, when we now know that the virus was likely funded by our own government and Dr. Fauci. That information, by the way, is not difficult to find. Look up eco-health alliance and the money that Fauci sent their way, that was then funneled to 'gain of function' research (which was illegal under US law). He thinks that protects him from perjury when he says 'he didn't fund gain of function research'. We will see, come November, if the Republicans in the House agree with him.
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Re: COVID shot

Post by Cytokrom C »

These were a lot of different questions, each probably worthy of an own thread…
suboxdoc wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:27 pm I don't know what it was like for you in your country. Here in the US, we have all seen many, many press conferences with Dr. Fauci, where he clearly overstated the effectiveness of the vaccine. It is easy to go onto youtube and watch his press conferences; he said many times that vaccinations were necessary to 'end the pandemic'. Biden said the same, many many times. That was a gross overstatement of effectiveness -- something that in the USA, anyway, would result in charges of fraud from the FDA. Here it was a routine thing for over a year.
Not sure what I missed here, but is it not an undeniable fact that Covid vaccinations have been very effective at saving lives (although less effective than expected at preventing infection)? Some studies indicate a reduction of Covid mortality by 90% after vaccination and in my country there was an obvious huge reduction in Covid mortality rates as risk groups were vaccinated. While we would have reached adequate immunisation to ”end the pandemic” with time (or technically to transform it into a less severe endemic disease) without vaccinations, it would have been at a much higher price.
I have never heard a government official mention mycarditis. Everything is on youtube these days, so if you have an example of a government official presenting the risks of the vaccine, please share it. Maybe you heard it in your country, but I never heard it here from Fauci, or from the Biden administration. The FDA requires all drug manufacturers to spend 'equal time' on risks and benefits, meaning that 10 minutes recommending a medication MUST, by law, include 10 minutes (at least) presenting problems associated with the medication.
If you want to give a truthful representation of benefit/risk ratio it would make more sense to allocate time in accordance with the ratio between benefits and risks rather than a 50/50. In terms of myocarditis/pericarditis i guess this would correspond to roughly about a 1000:1 ratio between benefit and mycarditis information (based on an approximate incidence of 2/100,000 for myocarditis and about 2% incidence of severe Covid symptoms…) In any case, I do not expect of policy makers/politicians to get into details on obscure side effects in their public communication. Their primary task is to push the policy. Informing patients on benefits and risks is the task of the healthcare system and based on info from expert government bodies (CDC, FDA).
Those lies led to people -- ordinary people -- losing their jobs. One of my patients recently received a letter of apology from the company that fired him, now that they are desperate for workers... but he is employed by another company and told them to kiss off. Good for him.
Here I agree. I think most of us agree that there may be reasonable demands on employees when needed for public safety, but it must be proportional to the issue. When it was discovered that the protection against spreading the virus was much lower than expected, policys should be adopted accordingly. There is something self-righteous in ”punishing” people making the wrong choices only adding to the polarisation… (We did not have such strong hysteria about unvaccinated people here, although vaccinations were highly recommended by authorities.)
We typically received a packet to read before the vaccine. Mine was given to me right before I got my shot -- after standing in a line for 20 minutes, with people behind me. I did not hold up the line to read the packet, and neither did anyone else in the time I was there. But by the FDA's own definition, that would not count as 'informed consent', which requires 1. a discussion with a physician, 2. presentation of all risks and all possible benefits, 3. options that do not include treatment with that drug, and 4. time to carefully consider that information. None of that was provided in this country. Handing a person a hand-out does not constitute informed consent here. Maybe it is differet for you.
My experience was similar to yours (but I did read my brochure…), however I am not that upset about it:
-Mass vaccination programs are a massive logistical challenge. People need to chip in and take some own responsibility for staying informed for it to work.
-Vaccination is voluntary. You have plenty of time to inform yourself before going to the vaccination center if you want to
-I have confidence in my expert authorities, that much smarter and better trained people than myself have determined that
a) the risks of vaccination are very small and
b) the benefit/risk ratio is positive for me
(otherwise it would not have qualified for a mass vaccination programs)
Here. half the country has been ostracized and blamed for a pandemic, when we now know that the virus was likely funded by our own government and Dr. Fauci. That information, by the way, is not difficult to find. Look up eco-health alliance and the money that Fauci sent their way, that was then funneled to 'gain of function' research (which was illegal under US law). He thinks that protects him from perjury when he says 'he didn't fund gain of function research'. We will see, come November, if the Republicans in the House agree with him.
I have been down many internet rabbit holes without being able to reject a null hypothesis of a natural, non-lableak, origin of the virus… On the face of it, I thought the lab leak hypothesis made a lot of sense (I mean what are the odds that a new bat virus appears in a town with an institute researching such viruses…). But the more I read, the more likely a spread of a naturally circulating virus originating from the Huanan Seafood market, seems to me…

I have seen a lot of Fauci-bashing on the internet, but never bothered to get to the bottom of it. What is it with this man that is so provocative?
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Re: COVID shot

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I could write pages, but I’ll try to be brief.

No offense, but you try to obfuscate by using more words than necessary and avoiding the central tenet of the question. Your comment about myocarditis is a great example. Writing about percentages is silly when you, nor I have any idea of the actual number of cases. When the FL surgeon general released his own study showing an 85% increase in cardiac death within a couple months of vaccination, the response was either crickets or ad hominem attacks. But telling is the publicly available data from insurance companies, consistently showing hundreds of thousands of excess deaths in the US in the time period after vaccinations. The cause of death is no known, but it IS known not to be COVID, cancer, diabetes, heart attacks, stroke, suicide, or any other previously-known leading cause of death.

Those excess deaths began a year ago and continue, and slightly accelerate, into the end of 2022. The excess deaths are largely in the younger age groups – people who don’t usually die from unknown and unreported causes.

The major media has no interest in the story, but the information is released directly by insurers and is easy to find. The media here (I don’t think you actually live in Stockholm, where your Incapsula VPN says btw) has proven themselves to be partisan liars… Russia collusion is an example but that story included hundreds of false stories over four years – breathless announcements of impending charges, misleads about the actions of the DNC in initiating the affair, the server story that turned out to be HRC’s people planting data on trump servers, the Lafayette ‘cleared by police’ fake story, the hunter laptop misinformation claims, the lack of coverage of visits to Biden by the oligarchs who paid hunter, etc. So many that it became impossible to keep track, other than to realize that our news media is not a source of news, but is a mouthpiece for the DNC.

Along that line, you completely discredit yourself when you say you believe the virus is natural – a comment that makes me question your science knowledge and wonder if you actually have any lab experience (as I do) or credentials. That question has been answered so clearly. Circumstantial first;

China’s leaders are scared to death of COVID. What do they know? You think they would lock down their economy and people, going on three years, for a virus that popped up in a wet market? People are still eating bats in wet markets. So this random thing happens, and China doesn’t eliminate your ‘source’, but just locks down the entire country? Silly.

The house republicans recently released their findings including emails and other communications between Chinese officials about a November 2019 emergency at the Wuhan institute. Lest you think this is a right-wing issue, Vanity Fair and ProPublica (funded by Soros) released similar findings. Several of the institute lab workers were hospitalized with an unknown illness that November. Chinese officials communicated amongst themselves about an emergency at the institute, and warnings were sent out to lab workers about the risk of escaped viruses. Coincidence?

Satellite imagery showed changes at the institute that November. New security features and construction occurred in November, just a year after major reconstruction. Traffic patterns show increased parking in hospital lots that November and the clearance of vehicles from the institute.
But the most important findings are scientific. Virologists have pointed out sequences in the COVID genome that indicate swaps of RNA – the work done in gain of function research. The genome shows sequences that virologists have testified cannot occur naturally. And of course, no animal host has ever been found. In virtually all prior zoonotic infections, and animal host was eventually found that could be infected from the original host, and could spread the infection to humans. That intermediate is sometimes a chimpanzee, but not always. A horse eating apples started the hantavirus infections in Australia. The host for Ebola is likely a primate. Bats for SARS, etc.

Years of searching for the COVID vector found nothing. China, of course, has not cooperated with any investigation of the origin of COVID. Hmmm.
Gain of function research, we now know, was funded by your friend, dr. fauci. Funding that research is illegal in the US, so he diverted money through the eco-health alliance. All of this is known. You will see him testifying and trying to lie about it next year in front of Congress, I suspect. But the evidence is all there, so we will see what he says.

As far as Fauci goes, people dislike him because most Americans are still freedom-loving people. Yes, the more people are paid benefits through income-redistribution programs and student loan payoffs, the more likely they are to see the government as their ‘friend’. Human nature. But most people value their freedom and self-sufficiency, as much as the DNC tries to take that spirit away. That spirit doesn’t gibe with a 70-y-o bureaucrat telling them ‘I am science’, like the great wizard of oz. Telling them they must accept his vaccination or lose their jobs in many cases.

Too long,,, but about vaccines preventing death, time will tell. Yes, it did that for a year. Now, most deaths are in vaccinated people (not percentage wise, but most people who die have been vaccinated). This vaccine is a classic example of ‘undertreatment’, a phenomenon most people are aware of with bacteria, but occurs with viral infections as well (and also with some cancers). The treatment of an infection or cancer kills or prevents the least-virulent cells/viruses, allowing the more virulent or malignant cells greater resources. In bacteria it occurs when people stop antibiotics too soon, or take too low of a dose. Those things promote resistance.

With this stupid vaccine, scientists were all in favor when they thought it would ‘end the pandemic’ similar to polio vaccines. Now we know it only pushes the virus to change and evolve. We got lucky with Omicron, but there are articles reporting fears at the CDC of new strains this winter that are more lethal.
Reducing deaths in one year is good. But we will see, after ten years, whether it was a good idea to push a vaccine that changed the virus from something that MOSTLY attacked old people, to something else. Maybe a new form will attack kids, as polio did. We now know (despite a year of suppression by the government) that natural immunity is far better than vaccine immunity. Duh…. Death rates in Sweden, where lockdowns and threats over vaccines didn’t happen, have the same death rates as everywhere else.

TLDR… Fauci lied. Vaccine benefits wildly overstated. Could this vaccine, what we know now, ever ‘end the pandemic’? Of course not. But he said it would, over and over, and Biden used the vax as one more wedge issue to divide the country. His come-uppance will be delivered next week.

Do you live in Sweden? Who knows. You seem to lack awareness of much of the information that is available in the US, but most people on the left in this country have little knowledge of things outside of their bubble. And you spell cytochrome like a Swede would spell it. Not sure the significance of that particular cytochrome to you. But I used to get so many Europeans here, and you don't write with the verbage of someone from Sweden, even if you went to a school that pushed English. Of course, living in Sweden would explain your difficulty understanding Freedom, and the joy of living in a country where you don't constantly feel a shoe on your back -- even if they did get COVID more-correct than our Democratic leaders, who acted more like Chinese or Cuban leaders than American leaders. It doesn't really matter, but I can usually smell out BS pretty well. I interact a lot with people from other countries, and the first thing they usually say is 'hi, I'm from Australia and....'

Whatever.
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Re: COVID shot

Post by rule62 »

Good stuff Doc. I was wondering why a newer vaccine wasn't developed that contained the dead virus like they make for other viruses like the flu shot. My wife and I had a very bad case of Covid a month before the vaccine came out. Lost 10-12lbs and even looking at water made me nauseous. Two weeks of fever and bed rest. My thought is now we both have strong immunity to future strains. What's your thoughts on that line of thinking? We've had the vaccine and 2 boosters but will not take the 3rd for obvious reasons.
Don't take yourself so damn seriously
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Re: COVID shot

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Such a tough decision, especially since nobody knows what to believe. One would think that the CDC or FDA would have clearer guidelines for people who have been infected and those who haven’t… guidelines that we can trust to be free from political messaging. I think those agencies lost the trust of half of the American people.

My daughter had Covid after being vaccinated and she was still pretty sick for over a week. I don’t know why I’ve never tested positive, and neither has my wife.

I don’t like to give advice. My wife doesn’t want me to get the booster because of my recent illness. why did I fill my lungs with blood clots sometime in the last two years, since my vaccinations? I have never had a DVT or clotting issue in the prior 60 years.

But now I am on warfarin for the rest of my life so it is less of a concern to me. I am scheduled to get the booster on Tuesday. I have no idea if it is the right call but I will be getting a flu shot at the same time so I figured what the heck.

It is pretty clear now that history of infection provides better immunity and vaccination. The hope is that future boosters will be specific to the strains making the rounds, but a recent Harvard study. Found the current booster no more effective for omicron than the original vaccine. The CDC argued that they have their own data that shows that isn’t true, but…? What am I to believe?

I think we are all just winging it for now. I’m glad you survived it though!
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Re: COVID shot

Post by Cytokrom C »

suboxdoc wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:13 am No offense, but you try to obfuscate by using more words than necessary and avoiding the central tenet of the question. Your comment about myocarditis is a great example. Writing about percentages is silly when you, nor I have any idea of the actual number of cases.
Of course you can have a good idea of the approximate incidence after hundreds of million vaccinations world-wide. This is studied and followed up. Here are a couple of publications:
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10 ... ossref.org
https://www.mdpi.com/2075-4426/11/11/1106/htm
The point was not the exact numbers, just that we know enough to say that myocarditis and pericarditis are very rare and nothing that has a substantial impact on the benefit risk balance of the vaccines. There are also reports that myocarditis could be a symptom of Covid-19:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7988375/
When the FL surgeon general released his own study showing an 85% increase in cardiac death within a couple months of vaccination, the response was either crickets or ad hominem attacks.
I googled and found this report: https://floridahealthcovid19.gov/wp-con ... ovdelivery
While I cannot speak to the methods, I noted that the endpoint assessed is relative incidence over a 28 day period following vaccination, with the highest risk (about doubled) in 25-39 year-olds. As the 28-day incidence of cardiac death would likely be very low in this age group anyhow, I would guess the absolute risk increase would still be very small.
But telling is the publicly available data from insurance companies, consistently showing hundreds of thousands of excess deaths in the US in the time period after vaccinations. The cause of death is no known, but it IS known not to be COVID, cancer, diabetes, heart attacks, stroke, suicide, or any other previously-known leading cause of death.

Those excess deaths began a year ago and continue, and slightly accelerate, into the end of 2022. The excess deaths are largely in the younger age groups – people who don’t usually die from unknown and unreported causes.

The major media has no interest in the story, but the information is released directly by insurers and is easy to find. The media here (I don’t think you actually live in Stockholm, where your Incapsula VPN says btw) has proven themselves to be partisan liars… Russia collusion is an example but that story included hundreds of false stories over four years – breathless announcements of impending charges, misleads about the actions of the DNC in initiating the affair, the server story that turned out to be HRC’s people planting data on trump servers, the Lafayette ‘cleared by police’ fake story, the hunter laptop misinformation claims, the lack of coverage of visits to Biden by the oligarchs who paid hunter, etc. So many that it became impossible to keep track, other than to realize that our news media is not a source of news, but is a mouthpiece for the DNC.
Could there not be any number of reasons for excess deaths? (I am spontaneously thinking of the escalating fentanyl crisis, but there must be many other possibilities as well?). In Sweden we have decent vaccination coverage (86.3%) and have not seen excess deaths that are not accounted for by Covid, so it does not seem vaccinations had that effect here at least:
Image
(green line is modeled normal deaths/week, purple is actual deaths, yellow is normal deaths+confirmed Covid-deaths)
Along that line, you completely discredit yourself when you say you believe the virus is natural – a comment that makes me question your science knowledge and wonder if you actually have any lab experience (as I do) or credentials. That question has been answered so clearly. Circumstantial first;

China’s leaders are scared to death of COVID. What do they know? You think they would lock down their economy and people, going on three years, for a virus that popped up in a wet market? People are still eating bats in wet markets. So this random thing happens, and China doesn’t eliminate your ‘source’, but just locks down the entire country? Silly.

The house republicans recently released their findings including emails and other communications between Chinese officials about a November 2019 emergency at the Wuhan institute. Lest you think this is a right-wing issue, Vanity Fair and ProPublica (funded by Soros) released similar findings. Several of the institute lab workers were hospitalized with an unknown illness that November. Chinese officials communicated amongst themselves about an emergency at the institute, and warnings were sent out to lab workers about the risk of escaped viruses. Coincidence?

Satellite imagery showed changes at the institute that November. New security features and construction occurred in November, just a year after major reconstruction. Traffic patterns show increased parking in hospital lots that November and the clearance of vehicles from the institute.
But the most important findings are scientific. Virologists have pointed out sequences in the COVID genome that indicate swaps of RNA – the work done in gain of function research. The genome shows sequences that virologists have testified cannot occur naturally. And of course, no animal host has ever been found. In virtually all prior zoonotic infections, and animal host was eventually found that could be infected from the original host, and could spread the infection to humans. That intermediate is sometimes a chimpanzee, but not always. A horse eating apples started the hantavirus infections in Australia. The host for Ebola is likely a primate. Bats for SARS, etc.

Years of searching for the COVID vector found nothing. China, of course, has not cooperated with any investigation of the origin of COVID. Hmmm.
I am not highly invested in the question and am open to that there could have been a lab leak (which is the reason I bothered to research it further...), but when I looked into it my impression was that most arguments for the lab leak hypothesis were circumstantial and not very convincing. I did find the NIC public report well-written, balanced and informative as a summary of the different theories and current knowledge: https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/document ... rigins.pdf.
Contrary to your findings, I did get the impression most virologists believed the virus genome was consistent with natural development when I first looked into this (but acknowledge this was a while ago and there might be new developments since then...?)
I also found the later publications geographically mapping the early outbreaks to the market and indicating two different spill-over events as quite convincing support for the wet-market spread hypothesis:
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8715
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8337
I mean, what are the odds of two separate spill-over events, both with epicenters at the market (>10 miles away from WIV) if it was a lab leak?
Gain of function research, we now know, was funded by your friend, dr. fauci. Funding that research is illegal in the US, so he diverted money through the eco-health alliance. All of this is known. You will see him testifying and trying to lie about it next year in front of Congress, I suspect. But the evidence is all there, so we will see what he says.

As far as Fauci goes, people dislike him because most Americans are still freedom-loving people. Yes, the more people are paid benefits through income-redistribution programs and student loan payoffs, the more likely they are to see the government as their ‘friend’. Human nature. But most people value their freedom and self-sufficiency, as much as the DNC tries to take that spirit away. That spirit doesn’t gibe with a 70-y-o bureaucrat telling them ‘I am science’, like the great wizard of oz. Telling them they must accept his vaccination or lose their jobs in many cases.
Thanks for the background.
Too long,,, but about vaccines preventing death, time will tell. Yes, it did that for a year. Now, most deaths are in vaccinated people (not percentage wise, but most people who die have been vaccinated). This vaccine is a classic example of ‘undertreatment’, a phenomenon most people are aware of with bacteria, but occurs with viral infections as well (and also with some cancers). The treatment of an infection or cancer kills or prevents the least-virulent cells/viruses, allowing the more virulent or malignant cells greater resources. In bacteria it occurs when people stop antibiotics too soon, or take too low of a dose. Those things promote resistance.

With this stupid vaccine, scientists were all in favor when they thought it would ‘end the pandemic’ similar to polio vaccines. Now we know it only pushes the virus to change and evolve. We got lucky with Omicron, but there are articles reporting fears at the CDC of new strains this winter that are more lethal.
Reducing deaths in one year is good. But we will see, after ten years, whether it was a good idea to push a vaccine that changed the virus from something that MOSTLY attacked old people, to something else. Maybe a new form will attack kids, as polio did.
While seldom lethal in the younger population, there were still many younger people that got severe disease with long-lasting sequelae before the vaccine ("brain fog", POTS etc...). I know several younger people that still have symptoms from their pre-vaccine infections...

I think immunization would promote resistance regardless if it occurs due to vaccination or through infection. My thinking is that the built up of immunity in the population through vaccinations and natural transmission will decrease lethality of the disease over time and it will develop into an endemic reoccurring disease (much like the Spanish flu). There is no evolutionary drive for increased lethality, only for increased infectivity. But as you say, time will tell...
We now know (despite a year of suppression by the government) that natural immunity is far better than vaccine immunity. Duh…. Death rates in Sweden, where lockdowns and threats over vaccines didn’t happen, have the same death rates as everywhere else.
Sweden actually performed much worse in the pandemic than our neighboring countries before vaccination in terms of death rate due to lower restrictions, especially a failure to protect the elderly. Despite limited threats wrt vaccinations (or perhaps because...?), we had a decently high vaccination rate (~86% has received at least two shots). I guess Swedes have comparably high confidence in our institutions...

From what I understand, "natural" immunity also wears off comparably fast, so you are still not protected from getting reinfected. I see it as a synergy: The vaccine prevents severe disease and death allowing for safer development of "natural" immunity upon infection.
Do you live in Sweden? Who knows. You seem to lack awareness of much of the information that is available in the US, but most people on the left in this country have little knowledge of things outside of their bubble. And you spell cytochrome like a Swede would spell it. Not sure the significance of that particular cytochrome to you. But I used to get so many Europeans here, and you don't write with the verbage of someone from Sweden, even if you went to a school that pushed English. Of course, living in Sweden would explain your difficulty understanding Freedom, and the joy of living in a country where you don't constantly feel a shoe on your back -- even if they did get COVID more-correct than our Democratic leaders, who acted more like Chinese or Cuban leaders than American leaders. It doesn't really matter, but I can usually smell out BS pretty well. I interact a lot with people from other countries, and the first thing they usually say is 'hi, I'm from Australia and....'
Yes, I am indeed from Sweden. I apologize for my ignorance about US conditions and politics, but the above gives me the impression you might be even more ignorant about Sweden?
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Rdphish73
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Re: COVID shot

Post by Rdphish73 »

Hey Suboxdoc,

I'm rarely on here, but I just wanted to say that I'm really sorry for hearing about this. Hope you're doing well. Personally, I never trusted those mRNA shots from day one. With all due respect, I don't want to be experimented on....especially by firms such as Pfizer and MODE-RNA. The reports on the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) are scary enough.....and to think that a vast majority of adverse events are NOT reported to VAERS is even worse.

https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data



My skepticism rose even more when in 2020, I learned about the amazing Dr. Kary Mullis and his PCR invention (which he won a Nobel Prize in Chemistry for inventing). Kary Mullis died of pneumonia at age 74 in August of 2019.....a mere few months before his invention (PCR) was used to fool the world. After all...PCR was the "gold standard" of Covid tests we were told right? The only problem is the PCR method was never intended to be a test for viral illness. It's an amplification tool, period. Kary Mullis said, If you run PCR enough times or cycles...."you can find almost anything in anyone". He also said that PCR positive "doesn't tell you if ARE sick, WERE sick, or if the "thing" found was ever going to hurt you or not". This could explain the dubiousness of the so called PCR "test'. Kary also had some interesting things to say about Tony Fauci and was very outspoken against him. He was also a big critic of the direction the NIH, Pharma, and Establishment medicine was heading. Kind of a rebel....which is why he was censored quite a bit. Kary Mullis videos are worth a watch.





Also, did you hear about the quietly held Pandemic War Game exercise in New York City in October of 2019 called "Event 201"? It was sponsored by entities such as John's Hopkins, the WEF, CDC, The Rockefeller Institute, and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation....and it simulated a Pig Coronavirus Pandemic. I'm sure it's just a coincidence.




Then in another amazing twist, in December 2019.... four months after Kary Mullis died and two months after "Event 201", a novel coronavirus illness is allegedly discovered in China, which just so happens to be "diagnosed" with Kary Mullis's PCR "test". The rest is awful history.
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