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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:00 am 
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Wow,

I have waited two years to do this,. To share with you all, my story thus far..,

Long story short I have been on Subutex for 5.5 years. and have been tapering over the last 2 years.
To where i am now sitting pretty at .07mg per day. split dosing as required.
Usually 50% @ 6pm and the rest 30 mins before sleep.

To say the least it has been a long road, not such a bad road, just a long one.
I have used a taper thus far, dropping only when I feel ready, and usually using sleep, stool firmness and mood as the main indicators of completion of each round of drops.

Going from 10mg to .2mg, over 2 years, has been met with little physical or emotional resistance(no pain, or loss of sleep, no noticeable mood changes. etc.)

I would jump occasionally in drops of 1 mg, and sometimes noticed soreness in limbs on waking only. Never was sleep, drop off, or mood altered, to my perception...at least, during this time.

In fact as i got closer to 2mg, the effects of the drug seemed to increase, and it was a pleasant distraction.

Now that I am close to the end, I feel i need to share my story, as much as i need advice from others, for the next few months, and post cessation.


I have never been here before, i am excited, and also apprehensive.
I know there is a careful balance between worrying and focusing on something, and sharing experiences with others and feel confident there will be more positives from the wisdom of others opposed to increasing my focus on the effects of withdrawl.

I can be prone to placebo effect, and i treat it with its due amount of respect

Well that's probably it for my first post.
I am doing a 20 microgram(0.02mg) per fortnight/week.(depending how i feel)reduction at this current time,.and am cruising along fine.
I am finding that as I get close to the end, that focusing on anything other than myself is good for me at the moment, and it is my hope that this forum can do just that, without adding too much fear.

Love an peace to all

hopespring


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:20 am 
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Hi hopespring, it's great to hear that your taper is going magnificently! I am sure that you are probably ready to quit right about now and probably looking forward to it. I bet that if you quit right now you wouldn't even notice any withdraws. I was wondering, how do you accurately split up your subutex? Have you dissolved it in water and used what is known on this forum in a sticky on this thread as the "liquid taper method" (if you've checked that out)? Thanks for posting your story. If you jump, I would just love if you posted your experience to the forum and you would help out a lot of people. And, we would all be there supporting you along the way too. But you seem like such a smart individual, I'm sure you will breeze right through quitting suboxone! I look forward to hearing how the rest of your taper and jump goes. I wish you the best!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:42 am 
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Wow (again)-This should be the last time i open with that word,.

I am overwhelmed by a response so quick.

Your probably right Invisiblemovement,

If i did jump,. I would probably be OK,

It's amazing how much of a mental hurdle that feels like, but when i really try to think about it logically, and objectively, yes, It would be the best thing to do.(Jump now that is....:)

If i did get any issues, i could always just jump start the taper, at no real loss.
I really deeply want to do this with every intent on helping others, similar , to my situation.


So, to start with, 10mg to .4 mg, I tapered using whole tablets. Australia has 8's,2's & .4mg tablets.
The law changed this season, and .4mg doses are now prohibited, as they are only available without naltrexone,, etc..

I am probably one of the last to get subutex, and was warned, that there was pressure to only supply me with 2mg suboxone.

Any way, to avoid going back up to 2mg doses,. I started accumulating my doses of .4mg tablets, just enough to cover the taper, with my reducings.

It did not take long (12 weeks) to accumulate ~8mg wirth of .4 tablets.

Going from .4mg to .07mg, I have just been using the liquid taper method.
ie. 1 x .4mg tablet per 4mls, (this makes a .1mg per 1ml solution.)
and then using a 1ml insulin dosing syringe & dose appropriately.

ie .07mg is 7 on the 1ml syringe, etc. ( i am doing .035mg twice per day, as we speak)

I only make up small solution(4ml @ a time) to avoid tainting of solution,
I always use a fridge.
And I always wash and sterilize equipment each week. ( but of a ritual)

Interestingly, when I went from ~.3mg powder to .3mg liquid, I felt a noticeable reduction.
As this is now understood to be the bioavaility in water opposed to powder varies in favour of powder.

I did not want to use ethanol, or stuff, as that would have just increased my dose.
@ the time, I was just a bit confused why I felt a little under on changing from powder to liquid.

The next significant point was around .15 to .1mg. It was where I had the first ever sign of RLS before sleep drop off, and slight 1-2 hours of insomnia, on 3 nights, during that time only thus far.

I am hoping/assuming/predicting that this is where the action starts, where the therapeutic effect meets no effect.
It did feel like I was shaking something out of my system. It went away, I have dropped since, and it has not returned.
Just something for the books to look out for @ .1mg. It may be the effective point, where after that, you suffer no real wd's, on a slow taper, We'll see, I guess.


Anyway, that's it up to now.
Please know that from 10mg to 2mg over 1.6 years, was not noticeable.
My method was to drop not linearly(smoothly every day) but to drop once a month or even 2 months.

I would feel the drop, but it was not bad, it just made the dose the next day, strangely more euphoric and rewardful.
Then over two weeks, you would watch your body recover, you could watch all the systems return ever so slowly, without too much discomfort, and get a glimpse of how you work etc.

Then once back to happy, i would stay there for a week or so, or until I was ready, and then do it all over again.
Each time, I dropped from 10 to 2 mg, It was the same, It was almost enjoyable, and definitely not unenjoyable, or hard, or something to be afraid from.

The pleasure/pain reward shows its head, during the 10 to 2mg taper and actually ironically helps you down the taper.
I ran and started a small biz, laughed, felt me, and everything was manageable, without any focus, on the" how do feel?" type questioning.

It has been more different under .15mg, not focus diverting hard, just ever so slight mood, and leg/bone pain during some days. I am tapering at around 17% at the moment, so I can forgive these feelings.

I do not seem to notice the drops from .1 to .08 or .07 mg, each week. Which is a good thing, thank god.
Although, it has made me sign up here, something must be happening.....lol

I am so thankful for coming here to this forum, as It has helped so much, just today, just to keep my focus, away from the final taper.....dom dom dom.....Probably too much mental emphasis there,.





Love
Hopespring


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:43 am 
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That's a nice long and low taper. Thats a pretty amazing job!

I have been tapering from 8mg for a year. I got down to .25 and stayed there for many weeks but I was having trouble sleeping so I went back to .5mg and it went away. I'm not in a rush now, kind of just accepted that it will take longer than I would have liked. I did kind of rush it when I got below 1mg.

I totally agree with you that the "effect" from sub at low levels is more is more 'pleasurable'. There is a reason for that, at higher levels we become saturated 24 hours a day but when we get below the ceiling level, we can feel the fluctuation of sub in our bodies when we are dosing.

Anyway welcome to the forum! Good luck with your progress...

Gb


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:21 am 
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Hi Glen bee,

Yes, I totally agree that there is no rush, and infact, as far as I am concerned, Time is the absolute key to this...

Time negates the need to use comfort drugs like clonidine, ambien etc.
I truly appreciate this, for example, Any drug, even used short term that may help alleviate severe fast taper symptoms, or used long term for mild symptoms(even worse) like say Phenegran, Just makes things, in my opinion worse.

I have been working through the contemplation and actual trialing of drugs for symptonmatic relief of Bupe Wd.
ie. Most NSAIDS, dopamine agonists(mirapex), valium, and xanax, phenegran, clonidine etc.

So far i have trialed Valium, Phenegran, Sodium Naproxen, Ibuprofen and panadol and even though they can help you sleep, or remove pain temporarily, the feeling they give me , especially Phenegran, are just not worth it, albeit the Ibuprofen, which i limit my use on, to avoid desensitization.

I hated phenegran, made me so drowsy, and left me feeling like the infamous "Lead Suit" oooowwhh, Yuk.
I won't use the dopamine agonist, unless i have to.


But I probably never will take another med, except nurofen, as if you taper slow, you really just don't need them, nor the side effects.(referring mainly to mirapex and valium and phenegran)

Its actually nice to know really how you feel, it is a feeling of clarity, that actually helps me, understand the bupe withdrawl.
The pain i get if any, is soooo barely noticeable. The last thing I want is some crazy dopamine issue, or valium addiction.

I really don't feel i need to control my adrenergic system using clonidine, but occasionally on days that I have to get heaps of work done, and if i am in slight WD, i will use 5mg dexedrine, never more than once a week. Which stops all wd symptoms for me, and any mood reduction.

I sleep without any additional meds, from about 1-2 am to 8-9 am at this current time @.07mg
This changes when I am reducing, and i may get a few hours less, but if I use this as a guide, it lets me know when wd's for this round are over, and I am good to go again.

Glen Bee.

I remember being at .5
As you are saying, and have worked out, I only dropped when I felt that I was 100% as i was before the last drop.
It just did not matter how long it took,

I would say, that if you are dosing once per day, and you needed to drop, without issue.
Just split your dose. When I had issues around this mg level, was when i actually changed to twice a day dosing.

I would take .3mg in morning(6am), and .2mg at night(7pm)
What this did was let me sleep through the night, as it kept enough bupe in system that at dropp off (pre sleep) was no issue)

I found that when dosing once a day @ .5mg at 6am, there was not enough bupe in my system, for a good nights sleep.
This never happened from 10mg to .7mg. I just slept straight through, and got up early.
But as the dose got lower (.5mg) I found that sleep became harder to initiate, and maintain.

It was a big difference when i dosed twice a day, especially when the dose became as low as yours(.5mg)

Some nights at .125 I would lie in bed and have bad RLS, for over 1-2 hours, so what ended up working was decreasing daily dose, and increasing nightly dose.
It worked, and leaves the choice of really, what do you prefer good days and good nights, or great days and rough nights.

I just recently upgraded my dose regime, to 50% 6pm and then 50% 3 hours after, then off to bed within 15 mins.

I am noticing around .08-.07mg, there seems to be no real wd after reducing .02mg every week.

My goal is .01 mg or for the anal(lytically) minded 10micograms (Microweasels in the old tongue).;)

I am proud of myself, but not over proud.I have been a wimp, and gone real slow, But it has worked well for me.
I am happy that this journey from 10,000 micrograms to current level of 70 micrograms, has been easy, and educational.
I am even more happy that i can share this, and help others in my situation.

It can be done without pain, I am proof of this, so many leaps of magnitude, is amazing for us, that have always thought for some reason, that the road is not only possible, but with time, as the tool, Bloody possible.

'Take that Buprenmorphine.


Love and Goodthings

Hopespring


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:34 am 
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Greetings

3rd day on .07mg.

Having a good day today, body feels good. No problems, or malaise to report. sleep last night was from 1am to about 9am,.
Of special note, it is uninterrupted sleep, with a lingering dose still feel-able on waking.

I am still getting my head around not taking a dose all morning, noon, and then only at 6pm and 11 pm.
I wake up think, this may be hard, but after i get up, and get on with it, I realize,
As always, it is just in m head, Here i am 7 hours from that though, and i still feel good.

It feels, as i have said before, that at this dose. .07, there is extremely low level body pain.
It really seems to be purely mental only. When i get out of the house, the world is wonderful, and i am at peace.

I Will probably speed this up up bit, and drop more vigorously, as it feels like I have gone to the cinema and there is no film playing.
I got all dressed up for nothing, kinda thing,.


hopesprings


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:12 pm 
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WOW, you've done an amazing job with your taper.....way to go!!!

You mentioned how you're still getting your head around not taking a dose in the morning or afternoon and you said that a lot of that was in your head and I'm gonna have to agree. Addiction is a disorder of the brain. It tricks us into thinking and doing things that we really don't want to or know we shouldn't do. Right now, I'm gonna say that you pretty much have the physical side of wd beat, you're gonna have to deal with the psychological side now and that can be a challenge too. Often times, something as simple as keeping your mind and body occupied go a LONG way towards eliminating those nagging psychological issues you're facing.

I hope you decide to stick around the forum because there are a lot of great people here who are all in different stages of recovery and I'm sure they can be of benefit to you, as you have no doubt benefited others by telling you story.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:03 pm 
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Congratulations on staying the course and sticking to your taper. I'm confident you will step off with zero ill effects. I was doing some research on dose equivalents a while back, and accounting for the inefficiency of sublingual absorption, I found that 0.375mg Suboxone = about 1 (5mg) Percocet. So that would mean 0.07mg= less than 1 mg oxycodone, or <1/5 of a Percocet. So, you are well below a dose having any physical effect. The real challenge comes in now with maintaining sobriety. I've seen people (myself included) having no thoughts or desire for drugs for months or years on Sub, then at some point after going off a craving sneaks up unexpectedly. So stay vigilant, my friend.
I wish you the best,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:24 pm 
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Hi there hopespring and everybody. I too have not posted here before and only found this website recently. Hopespring am in a similar situation as you where I am on 0.9 and overall been on bup for 6.6 years. Tapering down hasn't been all that difficult so far, but I have been going slow. My highest dose was 16mg but for 2 months, the rest of the time it was 8mg, but the last 3-4 years it's been around 3-1mg. Maybe we can taper down together? I've been told the real test lyes when we get off bup, and that at the lower doses you need to adjust yourself mentally, and that can take several months. My plan is to chip away by 0.2 every 2 weeks and then when I get to 0.2 to stay there for couple of months, to let my body and mental situation get stable, which Ive been told can take a while. I plan to jump off from 0.1 and lower if possible, if there is still an affect at minute doses. Am from the UK and we also have 2mg and 0.4 tabs here, I stocked enough up so I can taper down myself. Sometimes I would get restless legs too but it goes away after couple of days, I take my dose around the afternoon because that is the time I get out of bed lol, I just dislike taking my sub in the mornings, come the evening time I use to feel really terrible mentally, so I read couple of posts of people changing their dosing schedule and sleep patterns, so few years ago I changed my dosing schedule and daily routine to late afternoons and late evenings, and I have to say its holding me mentally.

Let's hope our slow taper and going down to minute doses can minimize our withdrawals and PAWS, which many people seem to have a big issue with regardless of a taper. However I have read around various forums that people claiming the low dose slow taper is much more beneficial to the mental side of the things then anything else, that we need to let our receptors take in small amount of bup on each reduction, and to let ourselves mentally adapt to this reduction before reducing again. This is what I am going to try to follow, but I will reduce every time I feel mentally ready, the psychical side I can just about handle, I do lot of running so I am use to that, but mentally I want to give myself the best possible chance to reduce cravings, withdrawals and paws.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:02 pm 
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Hi everyone,

It sooo good to hear your responces.
I believe you Romeo, when you say it will be a mental game from now on.

I just woke up 15 mins ago,. and must admit, I am flooded by uncertaintity, for about 5 mins. I then get up, and when i get on with it, these thoughts thankfully fade.
As soon as I occupy my mind, I feel 100% normal.

My brain seems to go to these illogical questions., on waking,. Such classic questions like, will I actually feel ok when I have no bupe in my system. And do i have the strength to cope through not just the physical, but the mental part of getting myself used to a system, that has no bupe.

I then look at it logically, and know, that this is why i am tapering, and the lower I go, the more chance i give my body to adjust, to life without bupe.
It is is fear, I am sure, fear of the unknown, as many here have stated.

I am going to join the local gym today, after thinking and reading more about what is to come.
I want to fill up more time in my day, to get this really happening.

I dropped dose again last night to .06mg ( no dramas as yet)


Its something i will just have to get used to over the weeks, months.
any real issues, in mental changes, I will just taper, to smooth them over.

My thinking going so low on dose, is to adjust my body and also my mind, to this transition of no bupe.

I will definitely stick around here for the long haul, as the sahring of this info has helped me so much already.

lilly and victory,
Thankyou for your kind words, and wisdom.

II have alot of work on today, so I better get to it, and will speak as soon as I can.

Hopespring


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:36 pm 
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Victory,

Yes, from memory, I was .8 in may of this year.
So it took me around 6 months, to get to .06 from .8mg

I had no issues, because i took i slow.
I never noticed any mental issue, as long as I dose 75% in morning and 25% at night for sleep.
My sleep was never hard to commence, until .15mg.
I didn't get any mental issues, until .1 to .15mg. And the issues were 2-5 night of interrupted sleep etc. Rls for a couple of hours each night for a week.

You sound to be doing really well, if there is no rush for you, then just listen to your body, and keep up what your doing.

hopespring

At your level, i reduced by taking .4mg tablet away each week from my total weekly dose.
say 5.6mg per week is your weekly dose, I took .4mg tablet out each week.
1st week 5.2mg, 2nd week 4.8mg etc.
And kept doing that,...


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:27 pm 
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Update:

Been at .06 for basically a week now,.

Good things
Sleep and drop off seem to OK. Avg 6-8 hours of sleep. 8 when there is no loud noises etc.
I wake up rarely through the night, but seem to during the first few days of dropping.
I can usually 9/10 go straight back to sleep.
I am not using any sleep meds, as they seem to interefere with my abilty to feel normal the next day.
I don;t take naps during the day, which is kinda nice, as I never used to do that beofre subs.
But on the subs, I could never imagine, not having naps drting the day,.
(Yes, thats right, I used to have real energy before the subs,), I tell myself.

Annoying things


Loud noises will wake me,
ie. Some A-hole was air blowing the supermarket next door at 4:30 am, on Sunday Morning.
I feel pretty average during day, especially when i start asking those frequent personal status reports.
Don;t they drive you insame, "how am I feeling etc.?

I feel bloody fine!!, So stop asking me......


Once I get my mind, out of the how I feel crap, I can see , and I know, that I am returning, albeit slowly, to my former self.
I know it takes time, to adjust, and adjust i will

Once I get out of the house, all my psychosomatic BS dissolves,, and my legs feel great, I am in a good mood, I am happy, i am laughing, I am 99.999999% who I used to be, before I started the Sub crap/(Sorry referring to my own mistakes)

Ok, so covered all the mental and physical stuff happening to me.
Its all very slight, and mild, and definately more mental, than physical.

Zoloft is a great way to remove the veil so to speak. If you are unsure whether it is real or brain created (Please no philosophical arguments, like what is real, etc.). zoloft will help you. I have tried this long ago, and it work, in regards to a different scenerio.) It takes about 3 weeks to work, and if symotoms persist after that, then your /issue/phenomenon is probably REAL.

My Insight regarding saving yourself before a slip.

Also some nights, say once a week or fortnight, I will wake up early, and not be able to sleep, it may be around 4am or a bit earlier. Sometimes I get this fear, that i will have to stay the whole day from 4am to 6pm, and I just really want to keep sleeping. It is here that my frustration gets the best of me, and I lay in bed for a few hours, and practice the frustrating art of trying to sleep, when there is probably o% chance. This is where, i think, fuk it, I am taking a slither of sub to help sleep.

Definately outside of protocol, and a step backwards in someways, but long term, just rest time, before trying again.

Rather than taking a small silther of sub, to sleep, and thereby reducing how much sub I can have the next day.
I have found that Dexedrine, used carefully, respectfully, and never more then 10mg a week, stops all WD mailase, and seems to, and I do not know how,( I have assumptions though) makes you forget that you are even in slight WD.

You only take 5mg on these rare days, and your wait till your next dose, is much easier, that you would ever think.
You can be productive, and achieve what ever you like,
WARNING: I am using prescribed medication only.

But yes, there is more, It actually helps you further abstein, and lets you take your dose, much later, if not the next day


I want peeps to know, that this is to be only used when you are about to either fail, slip, in any form.
Now, how about some anecdotal evidence, to really help, that placebo effect..:)

Current 2011/2012 clinical evidence suggest that the 4 main issues that cause WD in humans(sorry if this excludes you), from opiates are,. in order of significance

Decreased Dopamine
Increased adreniline(norepinephrine)
Decreasing CRF (stress feedback system-Deep in brain)


So, it would makes sense that symptomatic relief would come from
1) increasing dopamine
2) increasing CRF (too expensive over $500 per dose, FWIU)-Extremely new treatment.
3) decreasing adrenline etc


Well, it seems to all tie together, and I have tested the dopamine one, and it definately works, and removes leg pain, and all malaise, and energy.(yes, its a freakin miracle, except, it is not to be messed around with).Plus, none of these are opiates, which makes this a real oddity.

Clonidine fits nicely reducing the adrenaline(adrenergic agonist)
Dexedrine, Requip, Gabapentin, etc all increase dopamine ( dopamine agonists)

Dose of Bupe that i will jump from(Don't laugh)
.1 microgram (being stable on this for at least 2 weeks)
AKA 0.0001 mg

Trust me, I have been reading all your stories, seeing how you all went, seeing how long the malaise lasted, how many slipped, etc.
The dose of .1 microgram is based on that experience, plus that fact the the lowest available bupe dose is a 5ug patch.
If a 5 microgram patch causes pain relief, and therefore pain, then it would only make sense to get to a tenth of that dose, plus a little more for luck.

Love to all
Thats it for today,
Hopespring


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:34 pm 
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Oh, I forgot to say.

So that's why RLS is treated with Dopamine Drugs, You see, it all fits to together.
Dopamine goes down during WD, This causes RLS, and mild leg pain.

Drugs like Dex, Requip, gabaweasel, neurotackle(names slightly changed of humorous reasons),
ALL increase dopamine.

Hs


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:18 pm 
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Sometimes when I read your posts, I think, "she's overthinking all of this", but then I quickly realize that you're down to .06mg and you're basically feeling fine (once you leave the house). I say Rock On!!!

Plus, I think knowledge is power. It seems whenever you run into a stumbling block, you research it and you find some kind of solution. This attitude should serve you well as you progress through recovery.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:37 am 
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Thats really sweet Romeo,
Truth be known, I love the human mind, pharmacology and all things in between.
I don;t exactly know why this is, but I assume, like most people, just plain ol' curiousity.

I do overthink things, that's just me, but as you quickly pointed out, This is how I have to do things,.

And my hope is that there be people like me out there, who do also overthink things, will find my little struggle helpful to them.

I ask myself, why am i putting this DETOX on such a high pedestal. And when I look for an answer, at first I am really quite lost for an answer. But then the flow of reasons start appearing/

It must be either from what I have heard about this drug, stories I have heard, and local urban myths about WD's.
I guess also, I just find the whole issue of withdrawl to be insulting, and am pretty sure, people don;t have to put up with such a shitty time. It is my sincere non selfish hope, and paramount reason for documenting this, that there is a solution to this opiate pain Withdrawl problem. And I am going to do every damn thing I can, to find it.
Hence my long taper.


Hs

p.s. for the first time in 5 years i went to the pool, did laps, soaked in a spa, and felt, simply amazing.
I had one of the best days thus far, in 2 year of tapering.

I just felt so bloody me, time drifted pass, without thought of my situation, and was engrossed in a 2 hour converstaion, with someone I met.
It was, for someone like me, who does not get enough, since starting sub, a breakthrough experience, that i will use, as needed.
I just cannot believe how good you feel after 10 laps, and a spa, Jesus...........
I even got into a quasi religous deep in meaningful, it was just bizarre, and heartwarming.

My father, would always tell me, that running and swimming is the best natural drug in the world/.
I am covered in goosebumps, at such a realisation, that it soo good.


I would not want to run, or lift weights, but laps in a cool pool, is just sublime/


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:15 pm 
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Hey hope,

I just wanted to chime in here and thank you for sharing your experience thus far and keeping us updated with your progress. I too, believe it possible to jump off this medication with little to no withdrawal if a long, slow, smart taper is enacted and carried out.

Going to .1 microgram is quite a benchmark to set! At that dose one 2mg strip would last almost 55 years!

I was planning jumping from .125 initially, but after reading SouthJax's taper and your story, I'm thinking going down to less than 5 micrograms is ideal. A few days of feeling like shit is fine, but weeks or months of depression and/or physical symptoms are not something I want to handle. I'd rather just keep tapering. Like you, however, even at my current dose of .625, I am really really starting to notice my old self starting to shine through. I'm laughing more than ever. Feeling generous, kind, thoughtful, in awe of the majesty of the cosmos. Basically, I'm not totally fucking numb anymore. I'd say that I really started to feel it at around .75, and it is even more pronounced now. It feels so nice, and natural.

Anyway, enough about me. I just wanted to say that I'm really happy for you and have immense, immense gratitude for your ability to clearly and thoughtfully relate your experiences. I look forward to continue to read your posts and wish you nothing but continued success.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:39 pm 
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I hear ya on the whole exercise thing. Unfortunately, I jumped off a fairly high dose of Suboxone, got hit with some nasty wd's and seemingly neverending PAWS. I believe I was over a year off Suboxone before I started lifting weights. I'm telling ya, the FIRST day I lifted weights I was stunned at how much better I felt. I simply could not believe the difference some vigorous exercise made. It's been well over a year now that I've been lifting and I do everything in my power to make sure I get at least some weight lifitng or some kind of cardio in each and every day.

Thanks also for posting your story and letting everyone know that you can get off Suboxone without suffering terribly. We have so many people come to this site dreading wd's, but we only have a few taper stories to point them too.....now we'll have one more!!

Broseph, you're down to .625mg.....YAY you!! Keep pluggin' away, man.

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Be kind to yourself. Our character defects do NOT define who we are!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:53 pm 
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Thanks Broseph and Romeo,

Something I thought you might like:

I was watching this show last night, not about addiction per se, but from some MD or something.
Anyway, its simplicity and elegance, was second to how spot on I thought this was.

The comment was that addiction, in all its forms, was simply wanting short term results, without considering the long term impacts.


For me, this means alot, it address the slipping behavior, the use of any drug, and the belief that short term fixes seem to be acceptable.

Any drug that effects mood, or discomfort in the short term, will always lead to long term issues,
in context, feeling good from any opiate, in the short term, is guaranteed to end is long term bad feelings. etc.


Broseph.
Yeah, I have a pretty busy lifestyle, and have to run my own biz, whilst going through this.
When i taper too hard, I just dragg my feet way to much, and my biz suffers.

So I have to go slow,.And can't really afford any real down time. Plus Experiments are fun, and if they reduce discomfort, for everyone concerned, then it must be a good thing.( 1 microgram probably is fine, but lets see how far down this rabbits hole we can go.....)

Romeo.

Yes, gotta love the endogenous opiods (released on excercise)

as you would expect, I got a packet of info, about endorphins,
Lets just say, they work, as you know, and moderate to high contstant excercise releases higher does etc.

But why does it work, Well, thats all prob. got to do with early man, running and the need to hunt and relocate.
The endorphins get realeased to stop the fatigue and further our Gene line etc.

Every step we take releases endorphions, enough to cover the pain of joints etc, but it seems that only when moderate excercise is done, noticaeble endorphins are released.

Interestingly cannabinoids are released also, giving the runner that extra dopamine boost. lol!

Swimming really works for me, during WD, on those tapering days.Plus also kills 2-3 hours.......

Love to all.
Hopespring


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:28 am 
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Update

.04 mg, and doing fine.



I had a couple of rough nites sleep, going from .06 to .04 mg,. It just took me a few hours extra to fall asleep.
ie 3:30 am, two nights in a row. Still getting 5-8 hours of sleep.

I don;t feel crap during the days at all now, it seems that the only issue I am having is delayed sleep on the dropping days.

No biggy. I have had to to microdoses, of bupe, say .03mg, when sleep just seems impossible. I have done this twice in the last couple of months. It upsets me, doing this, but when it happens, I make my best effort, to avoid the next dose.


My days are completely normal, no physical signs of Wd, as yet.

Seem to notice slight wrist restlessness, (fyi, this is easier to handle than RLS) between 9pm and 12pm.

Am dosing at 50% 6pm, and then 50% again at 10:30 pm.
I may go for a full whammy (100% at 9pm, If I feel sleep drop off is getting to hard)

Probably easier to do a 30% dosing at 6pm, and then 70% at the 10:30 pm slott. Will experiment, and see what works best.


I thought I would share my final taper, with you guys, so here it is.

WEEK # Daily mg Weekly mg
week 1 0.04 0.28
week 2 0.03 0.21
week 3 0.025 0.175
week 4 0.02 0.14
week 5 0.02 0.14
week 6 0.015 0.105
week 7 0.01 0.07
week 8 0.008 0.056


1.176mg (8 week total dose)

week 9 0.006 0.042
week 10 0.005 0.035
week 11 0.004 0.028
week 12 0.003 0.021
week 13 0.002 0.014
week 14 0.001 0.007
week 15 0.0009 0.0063
week 16 0.0008 0.0056
week 17 0.0007 0.0049
week 18 0.0006 0.0042
week 19 0.0005 0.0035
week 20 0.0004 0.0028
week 21 0.0003 0.0021
week 22 0.0002 0.0014
week 23 0.0001 0.0007
jump jump jump

You can almost disregard weeks 9-23, as these are experimetal taperings, Based on how I feel.
I may not need to use it, but have meds, to cover it just in case.

Peace and love.
Hopespring

p.s. I will be happy just to get to 10 micrograms per day.(0.01 mg)
Getting to 1 microgram per day, would be just a bonus,,,


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:29 pm 
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You have done it! You are off! Congratulations. You are well below a dose that would have any physiological effect whatsoever. I remember that feeling that I'm "me" again. I'm really looking forward to getting back to that. Seeing people post their successful tapers gives a lot of people hope. So thank you for everything you have shared, and keep posting. :D


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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