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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:15 pm 
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Day 8


I couldn't resist blabbing on some more, as I know, this can help others.

I feel 10000%, happy, laughing, energetic, and almost feel rebirthed.(vaginally :)

So all in all the last 7 days, the only symptons I have had are as follows.

Day 1-3 was weird, no sleep, and joint and muscle pain occaisonally, like 30 mins total per day.
No GI issues, no diarrhea, no mood distrubance, just really horny, and I mean really horny.
Day 3-6 was alot harder, still 1-2 hours of sleep, and naps during day.
No GI issues, no lethargy, just a fraction of anxiety, which dissapeared on defocusing.

Day 7 was the hardest, well, i should say day seven at 11:00 pm was the hardest, as all muscles hurt in harmony.
Day 8 :Sleep has returned, and I feel the way I have always dreamt off.

In 2.5 years, I have never felt this good on waking. I have completely forgotten about bupe, and dosing.
I just don;t think of it, It did take about two weeks to get to this mental point though.

I am back in love with life, and feel so strong, even if I get the odd rebound, I just don't care.
I have past the peak, and thats all i care about.
Its all downhill from here, my sweet friends.
I am home, finally.
I get goosebumps just thinking about my journey.


peace an love to all,

HS


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:52 pm 
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Right on Hope happy to hear you're doing so good! I remember day 8 and I posted I was feeling great!! And I was...you sound a lot like I felt after stopping from a dose like yours. Just know that you may have some up and down days for a while. It came and went in mild waves for a few weeks and messed with the sleep some and yeah I hear you on the horny part! Hey it really does help with sleep :)

I think I got into a little funk a few weeks after stopping with motivation and what not...after the initial I'm clean happiness wore off maybe? It's hard to explain, but you have to remember how to live life again. I'm at 7+ weeks off everything and still feel some ups and downs. I guess I'll chalk it up to PAWS and know my brain is still trying to self correct all the damage I did. I doubt you'll have too much trouble with it just be prepared and keep us posted!! Cheers


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:29 pm 
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10 days ala no Subutex

Update:
I think this is important for all tapers's to know exactly what is going on, in detail.


RLS and leg pain, are basically gone, during day and night.,
I feel as normal during the day, as I did on subs or before subs.
I really cannot notice any difference between the feelings I had on subs, and how I feel now.
I put this down to a real long taper, tricking the brain into normality, very slowly.
No diarrhea, which is odd, although if I worry , I am sure I can manage a squirt or two.

I am on no comfort meds, except clonidine. No benzo's, as they are pretty much useless.
I am on no sleeping meds, just pure Hopspring.
I am on 100mg zoloft, but have been on that for 5 years( much lower dose prev. ~ 20mg per day)
Am not taking any stimulants to offset lethargy, as I have no lethargy.

My happiness have never been better, I feel that if there was a god, and he is on mt side( I am an atheist)
My abilty to socialy interact is actually improved, no depression, within 1000kms.
Appetite has not changed at all, maybe craving more fatty foods, but that is just me being lazy.
Seem to have very stable day to day level of well being,. Not having ups or downs,.

My diction, and perspicacity seems to be better than on subs, and mind clarity is pre suv levels.

I am no longer tired during the day, which was what sub did to me.
As stated before, sex drive is out of control, I just have to see a person of the opposite sex, in skimpy clothing, and I am off to a private place....lol

I must have had sex 8 times a night the last 3 nights. That was the one thin I missed whilst on subs.
Looking forward to going and smashing(screwing) a few members of the opposite sex, in the years to come.

And the only negatives are as follows:

Mediocre sleep, up to about 3-4 hours per night, now. I don't ever count on it, but if it comes, all the better.
So I guess that is my only nemesis, Insomnia, after 5 years on Bupe. I can cope with that.

Every day sleep gets a little bit better, and every day, I can feel that drop off signal in my brain returning.

Like romeo said, you will be surprised how well you can function, on such little sleep.
Look, your brain, doesn;t want sleep,detoxing from subs, so why even bother trying,.

The beauty of the brain, is that after 96 hours of being awake, your brain will self protect you, and gain the sleep it needs.
Sometimes yuo sleep without even knowing, in such a state, my friend has told me she hears me snore, despite me thinking , I have been awake.

The best advice my Dr gave me, is just don;t wait for sleep, let it find you., I believe that is wherer the anxiety comes from, and the frustration, and the relapsing.


Any from what i understand a 2.5 year taper, down to .04mg(or .02mg bioavailability_) just leaves you with insomnia, as the only symptom. I have deep respect for all members that have jumped from 2mg or higher, you guys are like some kind of legends.

So all in all, its just a waiting game now for sleep to resolve.
I will allow 12 months, for complete rewiring, to get back to my former sleeping self( I used to be a semi-professional sleeper, trained by my father)

Also, I walk a couple of kms every day, and just cruise around the neighbour hood.

Also when i was getting rls in arms, or legs whilst awake, last week, I found a simple trick, to ameliorate the pain.
Just work the muscle that is casuing you grief, and by work, I mean stretch, and use resistance weights.

ie. Sore arms... 100 curls with a 1kg wait fixes that
Sore legs...Sit in a chair, and raise one leg at a time, and bring leg upwards , to a pain, point, and hold for like 20 seconds.

Anyway my fellow travellers, There is hioe for all of us,
I was thinking last night how many hours of pain I had whiolst 2.5 years of tapering.
I woul always wake up with sore legs, and after an hour I would dose. So you are looking at around 700 hours of medium pain. I believe this is why tapers are gold,. You withdrawl, whilst you taper, having the added bonus of not feeling to crap whilst doing it.

Answer me this, any waone who does not belive in tapering.

If you had 100mg morphine every day for say a year, and then the next day, you drop to 99mg.
My question, is would you notice the difference?.....NO, and that is the principle of tapering.
It is the tricking of the brain, where the magic happens.

HopeSpring

SouthJax, Yes, I know there will be ups and downs, but before I had subs, and even on subs, I had up and down days.
I will give it at least 6 months, for sleep to get good, then allow a couple of years, to let all the brain cascading(repairing happen)

I am in no rush, as you guys probably know.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:16 am
Posts: 94
10 days ala no Subutex

Update:
I think this is important for all tapers's to know exactly what is going on, in detail.


RLS and leg pain, are basically gone, during day and night.,
I feel as normal during the day, as I did on subs or before subs.
I really cannot notice any difference between the feelings I had on subs, and how I feel now.
I put this down to a real long taper, tricking the brain into normality, very slowly.
No diarrhea, which is odd, although if I worry , I am sure I can manage a squirt or two.

I am on no comfort meds, except clonidine. No benzo's, as they are pretty much useless.
I am on no sleeping meds, just pure Hopspring.
I am on 100mg zoloft, but have been on that for 5 years( much lower dose prev. ~ 20mg per day)
Am not taking any stimulants to offset lethargy, as I have no lethargy.

My happiness have never been better, I feel that if there was a god, and he is on mt side( I am an atheist)
My abilty to socialy interact is actually improved, no depression, within 1000kms.
Appetite has not changed at all, maybe craving more fatty foods, but that is just me being lazy.
Seem to have very stable day to day level of well being,. Not having ups or downs,.

My diction, and perspicacity seems to be better than on subs, and mind clarity is pre suv levels.

I am no longer tired during the day, which was what sub did to me.
As stated before, sex drive is out of control, I just have to see a person of the opposite sex, in skimpy clothing, and I am off to a private place....lol

I must have had sex 8 times a night the last 3 nights. That was the one thin I missed whilst on subs.
Looking forward to going and smashing(screwing) a few members of the opposite sex, in the years to come.

And the only negatives are as follows:

Mediocre sleep, up to about 3-4 hours per night, now. I don't ever count on it, but if it comes, all the better.
So I guess that is my only nemesis, Insomnia, after 5 years on Bupe. I can cope with that.

Every day sleep gets a little bit better, and every day, I can feel that drop off signal in my brain returning.

Like romeo said, you will be surprised how well you can function, on such little sleep.
Look, your brain, doesn;t want sleep,detoxing from subs, so why even bother trying,.

The beauty of the brain, is that after 96 hours of being awake, your brain will self protect you, and gain the sleep it needs.
Sometimes yuo sleep without even knowing, in such a state, my friend has told me she hears me snore, despite me thinking , I have been awake.

The best advice my Dr gave me, is just don;t wait for sleep, let it find you., I believe that is wherer the anxiety comes from, and the frustration, and the relapsing.


Any from what i understand a 2.5 year taper, down to .04mg(or .02mg bioavailability_) just leaves you with insomnia, as the only symptom. I have deep respect for all members that have jumped from 2mg or higher, you guys are like some kind of legends.

So all in all, its just a waiting game now for sleep to resolve.
I will allow 12 months, for complete rewiring, to get back to my former sleeping self( I used to be a semi-professional sleeper, trained by my father)

Also, I walk a couple of kms every day, and just cruise around the neighbour hood.

Also when i was getting rls in arms, or legs whilst awake, last week, I found a simple trick, to ameliorate the pain.
Just work the muscle that is casuing you grief, and by work, I mean stretch, and use resistance weights.

ie. Sore arms... 100 curls with a 1kg wait fixes that
Sore legs...Sit in a chair, and raise one leg at a time, and bring leg upwards , to a pain, point, and hold for like 20 seconds.

Anyway my fellow travellers, There is hioe for all of us,
I was thinking last night how many hours of pain I had whiolst 2.5 years of tapering.
I woul always wake up with sore legs, and after an hour I would dose. So you are looking at around 700 hours of medium pain. I believe this is why tapers are gold,. You withdrawl, whilst you taper, having the added bonus of not feeling to crap whilst doing it.

Answer me this, any waone who does not belive in tapering.

If you had 100mg morphine every day for say a year, and then the next day, you drop to 99mg.
My question, is would you notice the difference?.....NO, and that is the principle of tapering.
It is the tricking of the brain, where the magic happens.

HopeSpring

SouthJax, Yes, I know there will be ups and downs, but before I had subs, and even on subs, I had up and down days.
I will give it at least 6 months, for sleep to get good, then allow a couple of years, to let all the brain cascading(repairing happen)

I am in no rush, as you guys probably know.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:49 pm 
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AMAZING.

I'm very happy you found this site. Your knowledge, clarity, and experience are priceless.

Thanks again for preparing me for where I'll be shortly.

I'm glad you're doing so well, and hope things continue on that way for you. I was also considering going to an addiction specialist prior to jumping. Have you found it's worth the time?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:54 am 
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Hi Broseph,


I did a google search for say, melbourne addiction specialist, and a few came up.

Yes, any understanding doctor or addiction specialist, will definitely give you a soft place to fall, if needed.

We can read alot of heresay on the net, but a true addiciotn specialist is usually as passionate as you are about avoiding discomfort, and understanding the situation.

My specialist advises, to my extreme liking these drugs. I urge yuo to look them up, and see the're amazing profile.

1) Norgesic - stops all skeletal pain
2) clonidine - Takes away the anxiety, and makes you feel alot more relaxed, and smooth.
3) temazepan (no more than 20) ever
4) 6 valium, when needed over 7 day period.


To be perfectly honest, I was in tears of joy, when I appreciated the power of norgesic and clonidine.

Just so you know, I only use clonidine, paracetamol, and nurofen now. Thats enough.I did 8 days of the previus stuff.

If you are on similar path to me, let me re-assure you, that if you can stabilize, around .05mg, then you will be fine.
It may take 4-6 weeks to stabilize there, but I promise you, the only symptoms you will get, is insomnia.
Make sure you get antidepressants, if you start feeling mentally blue, and allow 1.5 weeks for them to kick in.
They essentially let you see what is placebo, and what is not.

HS


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:29 am 
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Day 11 since jumping


All physical pain has dissapeared, by day 8. And am now in the strange land of Insomnia.
I feel just the same still as when i was dosing at .04 mg. No real perceptual change.

Just insomnia. I am maybee getting 2-3 hours of sleep a day broken up into micro sleeps of roughly 1 hour.

Its pretty shitty, but bearable, Its like i feel 100% physically well, but just am having ups and downs with sleep.
I expect this,.

Also, have stopped all meds except clonidine, as no real need for NSAID's anymore.

I am quite tired today, but I know that good times are not far away.
Its actually quite bizzare, not requiring sleep, definately one for the books.

I am not on benzo's or z drugs for sleep, so am doing this ala natural,.

Will keep posted.

HS


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:54 pm 
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I laughed when you said you used to be a semi professional sleeper!! I have several posts on here where I say that prior to me getting off Suboxone, had sleeping been an Olympic Sport, I would have routinely taken home the Gold!!

If you find that you're still having trouble sleeping, you may want to try this. I found something that helped me a lot was kinda retraining my brain to sleep properly during the night. For a long time, the earliest I was falling asleep was about 3am. This went on for months. I eventually started advancing my bedtime by 10 or 15 minutes a week and after months of doing this, I got myself back to where I can pretty much fall asleep around midnight now.

You asked a question for those of us who don't believe in tapering. You mentioned about dropping your morphine dose 1mg per day. It's not that I don't believe in tapering, it's that I couldn't do it. Anytime I would get my dose lowered, I'd reward myself by taking more Suboxone. OR, I'd lower my dose, feel shitty, have a bottle Suboxone sitting next to me and VOILA, I'd take more Suboxone to make the shitty feeling go away.

I 100% believe in tapering, but I also know there's no way on God's green earth that I would have been able to do it, so high jumping it was!!! (piss me off!!! LOL)

Thanks for continuing to update this thread and I hope your sleep normalizes soon.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:29 pm 
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Sorry about such a confronting question, lets just leave it rhetorical, for now....lol

I hear ya Romeo,.


Guess What,
Had a 4.5 hour uninterupted sleep last night, bloody yippee yi yay!!!!

Yeah 3 am sounds about right for me, I will take your advice, my friend, and can see the wisdom.
Just thank the good sweet lord, that I had a good sleep.

I think what worked for me last night, was to shut down all exteranl noises, tv, net etc, and just relax.
And bang, it happened,

It really feels like relearning to sleep, how unusual, but us ex professional sleepers, have a firm goal in mind.
Long term results, not short term.

All good everyone....

Peace and love

HS


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:27 pm 
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Hey Hopespring I'm about the same amount of days in as you are with no suboxone. I'm at almosttt the same feelings about the situation as you are. Insomnia sucks, but at the same time it doesn't feel like we need it. I've just recently (day 10-11) have started managing about 4 hours sustained sleep. It does take me awhile still to fall asleep. RLS is all but gone, very rarely feel it. Sex Drive is through the roof as well. I think I could go probably about 8 sessions as well, and that's finishing every single time! Insomnia, at first the scariest, then the least important in the grand scheme. I'm not on any anti-depressants and I'm only using clonidine as well. I do think a small dose anti depressant wouldn't hurt in my case, but I'm waiting a few more days.

I just wanted to throw in, its great to see positives from someone at the same amount of days clean. Even if we took different routes. I'm like Romeo, drop my dose by 2mg? Better celebrate with 32 extra mg of subs!!! I just couldn't see myself tapering like you managed. It's really impressive.

Congratulations!!! On all of your progress!! Take care buddy and keep it up!

WTBF


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:12 am 
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I am calling it today, as I feel that I have come out the other side, of the WD's,
I will now post in 'Bupe in the rear mirror' There's alot more to come, so sorry about the dribble.


Hey, Thanks WTBF,
You are the true legend here, I pray you every strength, and commend you, and hope wish your journey a smooth one, as it sounds like you have travelled so well allready.

My dearest thanks to Romeo, Amber, lillyval, broseph, and everyone and anyone that has helped me and posted here, (you know who you are..)
I can only hope my journey helps others as well.



Now, how about competitive opiate detoxing,..Future SPORT?...lol

p.s. there is a summary at the end of this post, with all the numbers, for those such inclined.



Actual Post
When I was tapering, before I jumped, ......No wait, let me start this better......

We all share our experiences, here, to our group advantage, and I remember pre-jumping, that I was going to really document this puppy, and try to actually find some solutions in the process, by testing stuff, remember my pre-jump posts?.

Now, I say pre jump, because it will tie in nicely with what I really wanted to say today, by comparing how you feel pre jump to now, and the time it takes to you consider yourself, well,...Sweet, i guess. Back to normal, in other words.

Today, has been that day for me.
I know,, without doubt, that I can do this, as those who are in the middle like me, sometimes, question this stuff, unnecessarily, of course.

Being human, and 11 days past pre jump, you ask that question, when is it going to happen, or when i am i going to get glimpse at myself again, your real pre bupe self.

Today it kinda happened.
I feel that completion close, and for first the first time,
Lets be honest, stopping bupe, is a curious beast , to say the least.( If you don;t understand what i am saying, when you jump, you will, trust me.)

The last 11 or so days have been easier than i thought, but also, as hard as I would like it.
You always keep this watchful eye, on yourself, listening, and waiting, for that feeling you know so well, to return. (Pre bupe )

I can see from my last few posts , I have been tired, basically, overtired, and grumpy, for that fact. and before that, I was as most people say, waiting for my fears to come, which like all people here, they are just that fears, and do not come true.) Who knows how you will feel when you stop bupe, you might say, how long will it take to get sweet?

Well, 11 days, my dear friends, for my particular situation, genes, etc.
It feels like being at the other side of the mission i completed so long ago, (2.5 years ago, I started tapering, because I am a wimp, or just someone that doesn;t like to feel to shitty for too long.)

I will share with you, that things have not always been great the last 3 days, I reckon, you get this loose pain, or worry, if you like, in your thighs(for me anyway.). It represents the WD to me, and is more than likely the actual WD.

Your only symptom is this light pain in your upper thighs. It goes away on sex, or defocusing, but is there, during the first 10 or 11 days or so. You expect this, Jesus, You have all Mu receptors completely saturated for over 5 years, you are going to have to pay the ferry man, even at a low dose like mine.

But the cost, was little, or probably for most masters of pain, f'all.

Now, lets get on to the good stuff, now that, the pain has gone, and I can see me again, now, and no it is not going to be that far to keep forever.

I spoke earlier about, what happens to your body when you are actually detoxing, Dopamine goes down, NMDA gets messed around, you adrenaline levels increase, and you immune system can get activated, ie sneezes.

Thankgod, I have had no sneezing, got rid of that during the taper...lol
Now, where was I,.

I did promise myself that I would test out certain drugs that may alleviate wd symptons post jump.
So here I am, happy enough to get back to this. This is quasi science, based on my background in chemistry, so it may not be all b.s....lol)


Here are some prelim. results. (anecdotal)

Adjusting dopamine.
Well, there are a few ways to do this, I only have access to two dopamine agonists, THC and Sifrol.
Sifrol.
Sifrol is a dopamine agonist designed to sweeten up your RLS, by increasing dopamine.
about 1.5 hours after having a .125mg tablet, I felt my mood increase drastically, and tiredness disappear. I took it after a few nights of 2 hour sleep etc. I was feeling shite, to say the least,
I was quite surprised at the uplift in mood. Remember, probably not a good idea to use this regularly,( i don't)
This was based off a one night test.

THC.
dopamine agonist.
this makes a huge difference, and lifts your mood, alot more than sifrol.

I have not got any NMDA modulaters yet, but they are OTC at pharmacy, think DXM (ketamine, out of question)

Summary for those who like to skip.
*
    I tapered from 10mg to .04mg( well really .015mg, as I was using water solution, having diff. bio. avail)
    I decreased my dose in a straight line, over 2.5 years(evenly spaced)
    I never felt crap during the day, whilst tapering, infact always felt above average
    It took roughly 11 days for me to feel fixed*****after jumping
    Excercise is just as good as bupe, don;t believe me, try it
    I only used 5 valium, 20 temazepam, 20 nurofen, 10 paracetamols, 20 norgesics, 100mg zoloft, after jumping
    Valium and temazepam were useless for me, and had no noticeable benefit, always hated them
    Only two sessions of diareaha since jumping
    No decreae in appetite, or mood during taper or jump

    Only symptons were as follows
    Slight miscle pains, that would go on heat tratment, or nurofen
    Insomnia Starting at last few weeks of tapering, and still going, but bearable, and not mood changing


* The reason I tapered for so long, was in the hope that I could re-adjust by brain to normal, as slowly as possible, to basically smooth the transition, that we all have to make, without any contrast , if at all possible

I have carefully chosen my words, not to mislead people, and have reassessed this post to make sure of its integrity.
I can only say what I feel , and I have tried to do that.
I am not over the effects of Bupe, the only sympton that remains is insomnia, which is manageable and ever improving.
What I am trying to convey is that feeling, that I am home, and am happy, active, and feel pretty much HS (hopespring) again.

Love and peace to all

Hopespring


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