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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:52 am 
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I recently just started my first year of college. In high school I was a big time user of oxycodone and just about every opiate I could get my hands on. I knew many different people, not necessarily dealers, but who would help each other out to avoid withdrawals. I would occasionally get suboxone from people who would occasionally sell a few subs here and there. Now that I finally got on suboxone myself I have been clean ever since. I typically receive phone calls from people asking me to sell my subs to them. Since I have beem in the same position I understand how they're feeling. I would rather them use suboxone than a fully agonist opiate. However I don't like putting my sobriety at jeopardy by associating myself with these people. The reason I partly feel for them not going to see a doctor is because of how expensive it is to pay for the doctor appointments and prescriptions without insurance. As much as I’d like to see them get on the program I just don’t see it very realistic. For the people who were once on suboxone I’m not completely sure on the legal standpoint by sharing a drug to someone who has once had a preccription. I don't really like not helping these people out, and I also don’t like risking this key aspect of my recovery. I have been very serious about my recovery so I have yet to sell/share any of my subs. I was curious on everyone else's opinion when it comes to this topic. I am looking forward to reading your comments.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:31 am 
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I have a neighbor who I have begged to get on the Suboxone program. Him and his wife both are bad into opiates..and he gets his 120 lortabs / month, and his wife also gets 120 lortabs / month. Within 2 weeks of getting them, they are out.
When I first started visiting a different doctor that was further away than my current doctor...he was giving me 90 suboxone / month...so I had quite a few extra...because I would limit myself...so I helped out my neighbor and his wife when they would ask.
Then they got this sort of "safety net" feeling by me helping them in this way...and they asked more regularly. Then it became a problem, as it always does...and they would get mad if I couldn't help or had already done as much as I could do for the month.
It's nice to try and be "that" person who helps everyone because you found your saving grace with Suboxone..but you can't help everyone. At some point, the active addict has to say 'I've had enough' and they start to help themselves. There is WAY more money spent on active addiction from buying on the street than there is in treatment -- which is the plan. So you have to look out for yourself and not try to be there for others, when you're barely doing yourself any good and could easily fall back into being active rather quickly if supply was cut to Suboxone.
It's not your place to be their doctor, just like it's not your place to be their pharmacy. You cannot help someone who isn't ready for help, and you can't do this for them. It's a decision THEY have to make...and a tough one at that.

I don't recommend giving any suboxone to anyone. I had to make some people rather mad, but I cut off with my neighbor and his wife...and neither of them are utterly pissed off at me because of it...I just explained that DID NOT have enough to supply that way, and that I didn't want ANYTHING to mess me up.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:40 pm 
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Years ago I was prescribed subutex. I was a high school senior that thought he was ready to be clean. I only took subs for maybe a week before I was using/selling OC again. I then started selling subs for $20/piece (120/month). I would sell every refill i got for months straight. I was a douchebag. I agree 100% with Jonathan. I justified what I was doing because I was "helping" addicts. Not only is it morally wrong but nowadays police can track the packaging, so keep that in mind. Each strip foil has a little UPC number and a barcode. A patient at my old methadone clinic got arrested and charged for selling Rx. Words of warning to anyone that not only sells, but even just giving a couple to your addict friends/etc.

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 Post subject: I Don't Get It
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:54 pm 
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What surprises the heck out of me is the huge amount of available Sub on the street. We get so many addicts here who say they don't get it from a doctor.

If the doctor is doing the program correctly then it should limit the amount hitting the streets. That is one reason they put the bar code on the packaging.

Plus, if someone is trying get clean using Sub, then why are they going to a pusher to get the drug? That's not the way the program works. An addict is supposed to stop hanging with those types unless they're getting it from a family member or a friend.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:50 pm 
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Thats just it though Rule, "if" the dr. Is doing the program correctly. They usually don't. I know my own dr. Doesnt ask for foils and pill counts. Ive been with him for 3 months now and i just got my first UA. Also most people buy them on the street because they are not ready to get clean. Its usually just a temporary fix while their broke or the connect is dry, whatever.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:56 pm 
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There is no "program" for them to abide by, that I'm aware of, other than their own policies/procedures. DEA doesn't make them check foil packages or do UA's. That's up to the doctor and his own "program rules".

Many of the people who've come here getting sub on the street simply can't afford the induction and maintenance fees, so they buy their sub off the street, where it's allegedly cheaper. I wouldn't presume to say that someone I don't even know isn't ready yet. In a perfect world everyone would do their recovery/remission perfectly, but it's not a perfect world and reality gets in the way - often in the way of a lack of money. I'm not making excuses, but I am trying to see it from their perspective.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:57 pm 
I think anyone that shares their Suboxone is kind and possibly stupid. I see a big difference between "sharing" and "selling." Sharing is helping, selling (for $20 a piece or for more than the pills cost you) is not cool. The reason I say they are possibly stupid is bc if you get caught, you are going to jail, just like if you were selling any other drug.

I just want to say for the record that I don't think people who use Sub when they run out of their DOC are somehow lesser than us. We are not somehow better or more righteous because our pills come from a doctor. Your body doesn't recognize a drug that came with a prescription any differently than a drug bought off the street, assuming its the same chemical.


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 Post subject: diversion
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:25 pm 
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Hi--I think this is a very relevant topic to discuss. The bottom line is that selling, trading, or sharing your sub is illegal, and yes, with the tracking system on the packaging of the individual strips, it is easier for them to be traced back to you if you let them out of your possession. So it is a serious risk to anyone who "diverts" any of their prescription, however good one's intentions may be. So I don't think anyone should feel guilty for saying "no" to others who ask for some or our sub. That being said, I totally agree with Hatmaker's post--and I myself know of people who "share" a 'script--that is, for instance couples who have one 'script between the two of them--maybe because one person in the couple has good insurance while the other doesnt'. Or yeah, close friends who will give away a little of their sub to help someone who wants to use it to detox. I wouldn't say someone should never do it, but...it is illegal and you're taking a risk. And yeah, people have to take responsibilty and find their own way to manage their problems, but personally, I don't think that addicts can never be helped by others and I don't think it's impossible that someone could be helped by getting diverted sub. However, it's better if people can get it through a legitimate source, for sure. So I say it's a personal decision, whether you ever give anyone any of your sub...but there is no way around it--it's illegal. It's better to be following the doctor's directions too...but from what I read on this forum, many many many people do not--some people take more sub than they are supposed to (and run out early) but many more people seem to take LESS than they are prescribed and either give some to a partner, like the couples I mentioned, or save the extra for a "back-up" in case they have to taper unexpectedly, or just so they can taper on their own without doing it with a doctor. Most of us think the latter is just fine, but technically...when we do that, we're not using it "as directed" by our doctors, isn't that true? for me... Risking getting in trouble with the law is something to be taken seriously, but my own personal morals are not always in agreement with the laws that are in place.I don't think there's a clear answer as to whether it's right or wrong to ever give or get sub without a doctor...but I do think it's better if one can do the whole thing legally. It is true that for some people it is difficult to find and/or pay for a sub doctor or program, and sure, you can say "they can and will find a way if they really want to" but personally, I do feel sympathy for those who have a hard time. Sub really does help a LOT of addicts after all. And no one can walk in another person's shoes--what is easy for one person may not be easy for someone else. So, sorry if my post isn't very conclusive, but that is all I have to say about this subject right now.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:54 pm 
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If you even have to ask than you should give your script to your parents and have them give u your meds for the day. This is not a game you are finally clean an doing well dont even associate yourself with these people. The fact they would even ask u for your meds shows they dont respect your treatment but really just dont want to b dopesick. And im sorry but this shit always drives me nuts. The people who continue to use and get high bc the say they cant afford sub treatment are full of shit. Im not proud of this but i sold opiates for years and all thos kids who said they cant afford sub were the ones bringing me thousands of dollars every month. So believe me the majority of those addicts can they just dont wnt to get clean. Also alot of people who use sub on the street only use on the street so they can continue to smoke weed but if in a program u cant.


The people who are doing this shit are the rason why suboxone is so hard to get on in the first place. And why so many Drs only do short term treatment,uas,pill counts and so on... And if a Dr doesnt do foil counts than hes not to bright bc if his foils end up on the streets its his ass too.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:35 pm 
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I'm surprised this topic is suddenly active but am glad it is. I still haven't shared or sold any of my extra subs and don't ever plan on it. I was just curious on everyone's opinion on the subject and I respect everyone’s' and I thought I would mention how I can relate to it.

BBoy I see where you’re coming from and you obviously have a very strong opinion on the subject, based on your experiences but I can see it from both sides. There are many people who do share their subs and if no one had ever shared them with me then I never would have been in the program or just making people aware of the drug by trying it. So in a sense I do think there are times when one would share like autononymous mentioned to detox or like me. Personally, I really don't want to risk my sobriety helping anyone else because it is my job to get myself clean and it's not mine to get somebody else clean. Whenever a person is ready to become clean only they will know it like hatmaker said.

You can look at it two different ways, either that they used illegal drugs so it their fault where they currently are addiction is a disease. There are many ways you can look at sharing suboxone but as of right now I am still where I stood 2 months ago.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:18 pm 
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IMO there's a huge moral difference between sharing your subs and selling your subs.

Selling subs for profit = being a drug dealer IMO.
I think it's 'more' acceptable to give some of your suboxone to a person in need. ie if they're on the program, and can't afford to fill a script. Less so if they're using and want something to 'tie them over'. But giving them some sub is a lot better than seeing them resort to crime. So it's complicated.

If you're doing it to help someone you care about, would you even expect them to pay to cover your expenses?


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 Post subject: Setting it str8
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:44 am 
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Just want to make it clear. I used to sell 5-6 years ago because i was a dumb s***. I look back at those days not fondly but with shame and resentment. I thought it was fun and games, not realizing the negative impact I had on peoples lives. I don't even like thinking about it...I just don't want all you great people getting the wrong impression. For the record I can see both sides of the argument, and I don't know what I would do untill I am in the position. If i truly believed that a close friend or family member was truly looking for help, I might giv them 2-3 strips until they got an appt. But even then IDK...tough call

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