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Yes or No to New Suboxone Films
Yes( ) 64%  64%  [ 51 ]
No ( ) 36%  36%  [ 29 ]
Total votes : 80
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:20 pm 
Its aight i didnt take it that way.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:04 pm 
Oh I see bboy its ok for lifesaver to have his anxiety treated with benzos but not for me? I gotcha because its not like i had gone through a slew of worthless medications for months that didnt work with my previous doctor who finaly understood and diagnosed me with social anxiety disorder and put me on lorazepam. Get over yourself you arent an MD and dont know shit about me. Its cool though Im done with this part of the website anyway, Im just gonna post in the still messing around forum since Ive decided Im done with subs and am on my way to meet up with someone at 11:00 and get my relapse going, gonna be the first time in 4 months that I actualy dont wanna kill myself. I'll probably throw a bit of xanax on top of the morphine as well just for you bboy :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:29 pm 
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suboxOWNED wrote:
Oh I see bboy its ok for lifesaver to have his anxiety treated with benzos but not for me? I gotcha because its not like i had gone through a slew of worthless medications for months that didnt work with my previous doctor who finaly understood and diagnosed me with social anxiety disorder and put me on lorazepam. Get over yourself you arent an MD and dont know shit about me. Its cool though Im done with this part of the website anyway, Im just gonna post in the still messing around forum since Ive decided Im done with subs and am on my way to meet up with someone at 11:00 and get my relapse going, gonna be the first time in 4 months that I actualy dont wanna kill myself. I'll probably throw a bit of xanax on top of the morphine as well just for you bboy :wink:


I’m sorry to see you let one person’s views and onions upset you that much. But to let it get as upset to relapse I’m very scared for you and think you need to seek a mental health professional. Like I stated livesaver went through every options b4 going on a BENZO you were giving one medication said it’s worthless and your DR is a dumb ass your SUB Dr has nothing to do with your Drs in the past! Your right I am not a DR but either are you but the DR you do see does not see you fit to take a BENZO so I would think that’s enough for you to realize that a professional Health Dr does not see you fit to take a BENZO but since he thinks this you state your Dr is a bad dr doesn’t want to help you cause he won’t put you on SUBUTEX. Have you ever took a step back and realized maybe this DR is a good Doc and trying to help you stay off drugs you don’t need for once unlike drs you have seen in the past? But I really hope you don’t relapse because a couple people doesn’t see you fit to take a BENZO. But I can’t stop you from doing what you’re going to do but I think you should really realize maybe people are trying to help instead of stuffing more unnecessary meds down your throat.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:23 pm 
Well Im back and I guess I wont completely stop posting but just to clear things up my relapse was not over what you said, my relapse has been in the making for awhile now and was going to happen regardless. You obviously dont even read my posts when you make your comments, you said that I got mad at my doctor because he wouldnt give me a benzo after only one medication didnt work. I clearly said I have been put on numerous medications time and time again by other doctors that did not work for me before being put on ativan. Also telling me I shouldnt have the right to be upset with my doctor because he wont put me on generic subutex is completely wrong too. Of course you wouldnt understand though you get all your subs for pennies pretty much so I wouldnt expect you too. If you think a doctor faced with the decision of A) switching there patient to subutex who has never failed a drug test and has never used IV in there history of use so they can afford the medication and not have to get off the subs and go back to active addiction or b) telling them tough shit cant do it and letting them go off and do the inevitable, self medicate with full agonists for probably the rest of their lives. Benzos are not bad drugs if used properly which is the way Ive used them. If I was a benzo abuser I dont think I would still have 5 pills left out of a 40mgs ativan script that was written in july. Its fine though my sub doc can be a stubborn hard headed know it all as much as he wants as soon as Im employed again I will stop going to him and start the methadone clinic, I will also go to a psych doc and get my benzo script and I will not have to deal with this doctor anymore. Just to be clear wanting to switch to generic subutex is not wrong in the slightest, even Dr. Junig has said the naloxone serves no purpose and would Rx the generic to a patient who asked for it. If the price for suboxone was the same I would rather have suboxone but since its not Im gonna push for subutex every appointment until I quit sub and go on methadone. I just think your comments are ridiculous telling one member "yea its cool you take klonopin youve tried every thing else and its all that helps you" when you say its not okay for me when I have been put on every other worthless medication for anxiety. Its also pretty pretentious of you acting as if you can diagnos me as needing to see a mental health professional like I am some kind of nut case for relapsing. Get off your high horse and quit judging me like you know what kind of person I am. Im done arguing about it though I just dont care for your comments and had to say something about it.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:42 pm 
We are exactly the same in terms of, some months i want even have to take all of the months worth of klonopin im prescribed. Meaning, some days i'll take like half of a .5 instead of .5 and be perfectly fine. Benzos havent ever appealed to me and they only help me with my anxiety problems. As it sounds like you definitely know what anxiety is like. Its a pain and it really can almost if not definitely comprimise your treatment if left untreated because your contantly a nervous wreck. Not able to go out in public from pure anxiety. Its a real pain!! So, i can definitely feel you on that one. I hate that you relapsed man but im glad your back and i really hope you'll stick around and jump back on the wagon to success.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:01 pm 
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Its all good man I have no hard feelings when it comes to the life we live in addiction and recovery your either goanna like it or dislike it but I’m goanna tell you how it is and how I see it instead of holding your hand saying everything will be ok when it’s not. Did you ever think that when you were put on a BENZO you were still in active addiction? So you never gave the other medications a chance to work and just said it is worthless cause as an addict you and every other addict including myself have their mind set on getting that one class of medications! I do read your post and that is why I said what I said like yourself I saw your relapse coming I wanted to say something but I could see that’s how you would react so it would of just brought it on quicker. And let be serious hear if you were on the verge of a relapse do you honestly think it would be smart to throw a Controlled substance as addictive and dangerous as a BENZO. And I know BENZOS well man I was on a high dose of temazepam aka ristoril for a long time so I’m not talking out of ass!

Like I said man maybe a Dr is actually trying to help you for once but you won’t give him a shot because you are so upset with the fact he won’t put you on subutex that from there on anything I heard you say about this Dr was all bad. And no being put on SUbutex is not a bad thing but at the same time if a DR does not see you fit to go on it then that’s why. He’s not goanna make any more money if you are on this or that so theres more too it then just saying no.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:38 am 
I do know this, their are a good bit(but not all) of doctors that do benefit somehow from prescribing Reckitt Benkiser's product. If you've read any of my post about my doctor you'll know why i say that. My doctor got freakin pissed and started calling me a drug addict and drug addicts cant be trusted when i switched to generic subutex(which is made by Roxanne). I have a 100% clean record no dirty drug test perfect everything so he had no other reason to say what he did. Then, i ended up having to switch to name brand subutex and bam, he started treating like royalty again. I cant quite put my finger on what it is but, their are some doctors that do benefit in one way or another from prescribing Reckitt Benkisers product. Their is no way anybody can convince me otherwise because im not stupid and it dont even take common sense to see what was going on with my doctor. And theirs no way that my doctor is the only one like that. Thats why i say, "some" doctors.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:32 pm 
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lifesaver wrote:
I do know this, their are a good bit(but not all) of doctors that do benefit somehow from prescribing Reckitt Benkiser's product. If you've read any of my post about my doctor you'll know why i say that. My doctor got freakin pissed and started calling me a drug addict and drug addicts cant be trusted when i switched to generic subutex(which is made by Roxanne). I have a 100% clean record no dirty drug test perfect everything so he had no other reason to say what he did. Then, i ended up having to switch to name brand subutex and bam, he started treating like royalty again. I cant quite put my finger on what it is but, their are some doctors that do benefit in one way or another from prescribing Reckitt Benkisers product. Their is no way anybody can convince me otherwise because im not stupid and it dont even take common sense to see what was going on with my doctor. And theirs no way that my doctor is the only one like that. Thats why i say, "some" doctors.


Yea I can see where you are coming from, and I can understand what would make you think that’s why he said those things and maybe it is why. But at the same time like you said “some” cause there are a lot of people on generic subutex but if a Dr could make more money the other way then he would def be doing it. But at the same time maybe there is a lot of good Drs Out there that care for their patient than money ya know. I guess what it all comes down to is your dr then!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:26 am 
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Lifesaver-

As for the pricing of Suboxone: it is an industry standard to price every dose of a medicine about the same. Hundreds of meds are priced like that. How can R-B be preying on addicts? Last I heard, Suboxone is optional. Every drug costs money, even ones that keep people alive including insulin, heart and blood pressure meds, and anticonvulsants, just to name a few. The company has to make money to keep producing it, and especially for paying for the awesome amount of cash it spent developing the medicine and testing it all the way to FDA approval. The average price for a new drug to come to market is roughly a BILLION dollars. Just because the two active ngredients of Suboxone were already developed doesn't mean it was cheap to get the patent and pay for adverising and creating Suboxone. And if the 2 mg pills are the same price as the 8's, why would anyone not just buy 8 mg Subs and split them? It is unfortunate that Suboxone is expensive, but in reality it is cheaper than many other drugs. R-B is absolutely operating within industry guidelines.




Bboy42287 wrote:
I know you don’t want to hear this man but your SUB Dr is helping you more by not giving you a BENZO then giving it to you. And I know you will think I’m wrong and get upset but SUBOXONE and BENZOS don’t mix together and any other member will tell you the same thing. Just cause you have friend who get them doesn’t make it right to mix the 2 drugs you are actually lucky that your DR realizes this and doesn’t put you on a BENZO. Cause at the end of the day you are seeking help to get off prescription drugs so no DR in their right mind is goanna prescribe you a controlled substance UNLESS THEY THINK ITS 100% NECCASARY due to the simple fact of your history of addiction! Like Live Saver is a perfect example of last option hence 100% neccasary. And TRAZADONE DOESN’T WORK OVER NIGHT continues taking it and over time I’m sure you will see it will help. And bro trust me you don’t want to go on SEROQUEL I’m on it cause I have no other options and the side effects are not worth a good night a sleep.

When all is said and done I cant tell you what meds to take and what you shouldn’t take but I can tell you don’t rely on BENZOS when there are other drugs out there that can help you just as much without the dependency factor!


Benzodiazepines can be used safely at normal doses with Suboxone. It is not dangerous unless someone takes a large/abusive dose of the benzo. There are perfectly legitimate medical reasons for prescribing benzodiazipines, including crushing anxiety, agoraphobia, and panic disorder. Mental health conditions must be treated with the medication that works best for each patient. Usually a short course is prescribed, but some people do well taking benzodiazipines for years without increasing tolerance/need to raise the dose. I don't see what the witchhunt about benzodiazepines is trying to accomplish except to deny patients the relief they deserve.

There are ways to prescribe these drugs in a fashion that makes them unlikely to be abused. This includes prescibing a small number of pills without refills, and having a pill count before the next prescription will be written, among other ways. For a patient with a history of opiod dependence the doctor can call in a prescription for as little as a week at a time (I had a psychiatrist who did just that). It is also possible to have labwork done which tells exactly how much medicine is in a patient's body so the doctor can evaluate whether they have been taking too much. Research has shown that the chance for normal people to become "addicted" to benzodiazepines is incredibly low, as is the risk of becoming "addicted" to pain medicine. Personally, the blockade of these very helpful drugs to those with crippling anxiety seems akin to denying painkillers to everyone even if they have legitimite pain (something for which the DEA is already hard at work).

Ever yours,
J

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"Never tease a weasel/The weasel will not like it/ And teasing isn’t nice!”


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:25 am 
Creel1950:

Yea your right, suboxone is optional. However, for the people who do choose the medication the company is fully taking advantage of them. RB knows these people need this medication and they have people right where they want them. No matter what RB does or changes they make, they know people will follow right along with whatever they do. People who choose suboxone are left with the options of A: Active addiction or B: Do whatever it is RB requires incuding paying outragous prices for this medication. This company has been marketing this medication for years and i believe they have made back whatever money they spent to produce it, way long time ago. Lowering the price is way past overdue. Most companies over time lower their medication prices however this company keeps freakin raising their prices. That is rediculous!! I guarantee you they have long ago reached the amount of money they spent to produce this med. They are probably well above that mark. This company is making millions if not billions off struggling addicts which they know dont have many other options. As for the 2mg tablets being the same price as the 8mg tablets, i wasnt the one that made that comment so i dont know much about that.

What did you mean by, "it is an industry standard to price every dose of medicine about the same?" Sorry, that just confused me a bit. Are you saying its standard for a 2mg tablet to cost the same as an 8mg tablet? If so, that goes against all logic. And do you seriously believe this medication is much cheaper than many other drugs??!! Buprenorphine is the most expensive medication i have ever heard of!! Not to say their isnt one that cost more, but i've just never heard of such. Oh and just so you know, i am not looking for some harsh debate or pissin contest. Just a calm peaceful discussion, if any.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:37 am 
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Thanks, Bboy, for doing the poll. I've prescribed the film to a number of people now-- as I've noted before, RB managed to get Wisconsin medicaid to require the film. I wish they had allowed some choice for consumers..... but that's another issue.

Most people I've prescribed to are indifferent toward the film, so it was nice to hear the things that you like about it. I do have one patient who simply cannot stand the taste of the film; I've recommended adding a small piece of a lifesaver or altoid, but she still struggles.

The tablet doesn't have to dissolve naturally in the mouth, for those walking around for an hour with orange things in your mouth! You can crush it with your teeth to aid the dissolving process. For that matter it doesn't need to stay under your tongue. Bupe is absorbed through all of the mucous membranes in the mouth (the name for that thin tissue that covers the surfaces inside your mouth). There are three factors that largely govern the degree of absorption: concentration of buprenorphine in solution, amount of surface area, and time. So you want very little saliva, spread over all of the surfaces, for about 10-15 minutes.

Thanks again bboy--
JJ


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:53 pm 
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suboxdoc wrote:
Thanks, Bboy, for doing the poll. I've prescribed the film to a number of people now-- as I've noted before, RB managed to get Wisconsin medicaid to require the film. I wish they had allowed some choice for consumers..... but that's another issue.

Most people I've prescribed to are indifferent toward the film, so it was nice to hear the things that you like about it. I do have one patient who simply cannot stand the taste of the film; I've recommended adding a small piece of a lifesaver or altoid, but she still struggles.

The tablet doesn't have to dissolve naturally in the mouth, for those walking around for an hour with orange things in your mouth! You can crush it with your teeth to aid the dissolving process. For that matter it doesn't need to stay under your tongue. Bupe is absorbed through all of the mucous membranes in the mouth (the name for that thin tissue that covers the surfaces inside your mouth). There are three factors that largely govern the degree of absorption: concentration of buprenorphine in solution, amount of surface area, and time. So you want very little saliva, spread over all of the surfaces, for about 10-15 minutes.

Thanks again bboy--
JJ


Yea no problem I’m happy I started this thread I learned a lot from it. I do agree I wish that the consumer did have more of a choice but that’s how things go in this world. Yea I’m happy with the films my only issue with them is all the salvia build up once you put them under your tongue. So to make sure I’m getting the best absorption I hold all the spit in my mouth under my tongue for 45 minutes. Which is never fun but as long as I don’t go into withdrawal I’m happy knock on wood.


Creel
Oh I agree that benzos can be used with sub if watched very carefully. What I was saying was directed to one single persons case nobody else.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:27 pm 
Im sorry but are you saying that its ok for anyone who is on suboxone to be on a benzo except for me? Because thats how you worded it and frankly you dont know anything about my anxiety disorder, you only know me from random postings on an internet forum and for you to say that Im the only person who shouldnt be on a benzo and its ok for everybody else just pisses me off and rubs me the wrong way. If thats not what you meant I apologize but it sure seems like it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:08 pm 
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I've been takin the strips for about 2 months now and the disolve faster and save me money on the script now i got ins. to help pay for my meds it has help me alot with the money to get my meds. At 1st it was real costly to get the meds i had to choose between bills are my meds.Well i choose the meds and we did without for the 1st 6 months it almost like is it wroth it cause it was costin me as much are close to usin the pills i was on.So i stuck it out and it worked out for the better.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:24 pm 
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suboxOWNED wrote:
Im sorry but are you saying that its ok for anyone who is on suboxone to be on a benzo except for me? Because thats how you worded it and frankly you dont know anything about my anxiety disorder, you only know me from random postings on an internet forum and for you to say that Im the only person who shouldnt be on a benzo and its ok for everybody else just pisses me off and rubs me the wrong way. If thats not what you meant I apologize but it sure seems like it.


No in no way is it ok for every single person with a anxiety disorder or whatever disorder it maybe to be on BENZOS while on SUBOXONE. In my eyes being on SUB and BENZOS should be a very last option do to how dangerous the mixture of these drugs are, my statement above was not just directed towards you but EVERYONE IN YOUR SITUATION. Meaning a person who was trying to get benzos during active addiction would not have given other medications a proper go at it with hope it will work do to the fact that any person in active addiction will have their mind set on getting a certain type of medication you did it with benzos I did it with oxycontin I was given everything under the sun b4 oxys and lied about every single med they gave me saying it didn’t work cause I wanted oxycontin. And once someone starts SUBOXONE and is now in recovery will be in a better frame of mind and all those medications we said didn’t work should be given a true shot now that we are in a proper state of mind and after all those meds are tried and a person said they truly gave them all a shot b4 saying they don’t work then put on BENZOS as a last option ok than go for it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:08 pm 
Bboy:

Im just gonna speak from an outsider point of view on the situation with you and suboxowned. Im gonna be honest also, from everything you are saying you most definitely without a doubt are saying that it is ok for others to use benzos but for whatever reason, not suboxowned. Suboxonwed has already said he has given a whole bunch of medications a shot just like i did, with no success. His situation seems no different than mine but for some reason you have singled him out as he is different or he doesnt deserve proper treatment. As i stated in the beginning of this statement, im speaking from an outsider looking in. You clearly told creel that you were directing your statements about benzos towards 1 single persons case, and i just dont see that as fair. Im not looking for a fight or debate but rather i do see where suboxonwed is coming from. Im not taking sides either. I just dont know if you realize how your statements are coming across. Also, if i percieve your statement the same as suboxonwed, clearly thats should tell you something. I dont quite get it. I dont know wether their are other issues with you both or not but i cant understand what the problem is. He has done no different than me, yet you told me it was ok for me but for whatever reason, not for suboxonwned. Try not to take offense to any of what i've said cuz i dont mean it that way but, i just felt like you may not truly realize how your coming across. I know if i was suboxonwned i would be responding just as he is if not a bit worse. Im not the best with confrontation but im working on it. Anyways, just thought i would throw my thoughts into it with the intent of helping to resolve whatever yalls issue is. If suboxonwed says he has tried all the other meds before ativan, then thats what you go on instead of saying the things you've said. ~PEACE~


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:13 pm 
Ok sorry for getting defensive, I do understand what you are saying though completely. As an addict I had to realy think hard about if I was deep down just wanting to be put back on a benzo because I feel I would benefit from it or because in reality I was just looking for a way to catch a buzz. I realy do think I would be doing better though if I was put on ativan again but am willing to try what the doctor suggests and see if it works. The problem is though my sub doc is the only doc I can afford to see, i dont have insurance so I cant go make another appointment with a different doc and its hard because my docs answer to everything is "you need to up your suboxone" which is all fine and dandy and I agree with that but I cant afford it and he knows that. Ive suffered from anxiety before I got addicted to opiates and along with depression that was the reason I latched onto opiates so much and got addicted because it remedied my anxiety and depression like no other. So Ive had this anxiety/agoraphobia prior to addiction and the addiction only exacerbated the symptoms and made it worse. I see him again on saturday and am going to be honest and tell him I have not been doing very well at all and am at a loss for what to do. Im actively involved in 12 steps (even tho I dont realy like it but im giving it a chance and the benefit of the doubt) and I go to treatment so I am taking all the right steps in recovery but I just am feeling pretty shitty and its just getting worse. No matter what I cannot seem to stabilize at 4mgs it just doesnt cut it for cravings. Im gonna tell the doc about the anxiety and depression again and I hope he has some kind of answer for me, as long as it works I dont care if its a benzo I just want to feel normal again.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:56 pm 
Well my doctor understood everything I told him today about my anxiety and gave me lorazepam for anxiety on an as needed basis so I guess I don't have to defend my case of having actual anxiety problems to anyone anymore. Its probably not going to be a long term thing tho being on the ativan because he is concerned about me getting addicted.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:21 pm 
Thats awesome!! On my klonopin prescription bottle, its always said take as needed and i've taken it for goin on 4 years now. Its just the way its prescibed. But, im sure if your doctor said it was only temporary then thats what he intends. It seems that if you have an anxiety disorder as i do and fully understand, that you would need permanent relief. Thats just my opinion though. Hopefully this will at least get you to a better place mentally. Well, again thats awesome that he finally listened to you.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:30 pm 
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I have no hard feelings man sorry if I came off like that I should have been way for more clear on a topic like that and that’s my fault so I do apologize.


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