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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:24 am 
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Hey there:)

So I've been on 32mg of suboxone for 2 years now and have recently had to stop working due to health reasons. When I work, I find i don't take as much suboxone and generally don't take it in the day time but now I'm at home (we have 5 kids and my husband earns a high wage and im involved in a lot of volunteer stuff) im finding im just Tired all the time and lacking motivation.

Is this a long term effect? Im finding life hard to face and kind of just want to sleep all the time (obviously when the kids are at school)....im off all my other drugs including anti depressants, anti psychotics etc and down to a tiny dose of diazepam (20mg)......not long ago I was on about 15 different Meds. So I should be feeling better.

Is it my dose? Depression? I don't feel any more depressed than I did when I was on anti depressants so I definitely don't want to go back there after the struggle to get off them. I just want a zest for life for the first time but it seems to be feeling further out of my reach all the time :(. I used to be a super motivated personal trainer and super fit gym instructor, involved in EVERTHING.

I hope that makes sense. Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:46 pm 
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Hey French,

Personally speaking, I feel like that high of a dose is going to make u feel that no energy, sleepy type feeling. I'm in no way trying to convince u to drop ur dose, that's completely ur business and only u can know what works best for u. U can ask a lot of ppl on this forum who has dropped from higher doses and most will tell ya that u generally feel a whole lot better on a dose around 8 mg than a dose of 16 or 32. U said that when u were working u felt better and sometimes u even forgot to take all ur medicine right (I hope I got that part right)? I know when I was on 16 I felt better at 12 and still better at 8. Ppl who say that with suboxone less is better, that's true. It's just something to think about since ur on such a high dose. There could be all kinds of different reasons ur feeling like u are and I'm definitely not a Dr, but honestly that could have something to do with how ur feeling. Others may agree or disagree with me on this but that's my opinion. In any case, I hope u get to feeling better!!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:51 pm 
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Thanks Jennifer. Yeah, I do tend to think it's my high dose, but when I was first on it I wasn't as bad, though I was working crazy hours then running my own business plus the 5 kids so I never stopped. This last job that I've had to leave due to being hospitalised with pneumonia required a lot of concentration so I wasn't taking my subs before work, only after and yeah, sometimes I would forget. I was exhausted then too but that was because of the long days and 5 busy kids. Now im doing so much less and just want to sleep. I don't know if it's depression again or a combo or the meds and depresion or just the meds or recovering from the pneumonia and staph infection I had.

In any case; im happy to drop my dose but I kind of want to do it myself before its 'official' and I can't go back....but now I have all day, I don't seem to be able to stick to a lower dose grrr. I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and tell my dr I want to step down a bit, even if it's just 2 or 4mg at first. I did mention it at my last appt but I was just coming down with pneumonia and he said to wait until after I was better. My appts are only 3 monthly and i pickup weekly but I can call anytime and say the word. Hmm, maybe I will after Christmas. I know my dose is too high, I don't know why im hesitant.

Thanks for replying x


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 1:08 am 
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What you describe is the exact reason I want to get off Suboxone. I've always been a very sensitive person, to both the good and the bad. In the last year (on opiates on and off (mostly on) for the last 7 years and buprenorphrine for 2), I've felt nothing. I don't get super sad or super happy - I'm almost numb and anxious. Lack of motivation and lethargy as well.

My advice on reducing your dose would be to keep yourself occupied when you want to take another dose. You can play with your kids, do a chore or hell, even lay down! If it's rough at first, tell yourself you can take it in 30 minutes. You'd be surprised how fast you forget!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:24 am 
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Hi there
I've always been way sensitive too, it's a major reason I am an addict, I don't do feelings well, good nor bad. And I still feel things way too much even on the suboxone which is why im scared to be off it, I cannot afford to relapse, I really need to be doing some hard core work on myself.

I do take less when im working (I've not worked for about the last month and that's the only time in the last 23 years and due to illness.). Im ALWAYS busy though with 5 kids but I know what you are saying. It's just the feelings that I don't do well with. Thanks for the advice. I think when I go back to work in the new year I will seriously reduce my dose. I do hear a lot of people say it steals their motivation.

Thank you and merry Christmas xo


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 2:23 pm 
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Hi French1978,

It`s a simple mind game that our addiction demon keeps whispering in our ear. Once you make up your mind to cut down the dose your brain will adjust very quickly. In my case it did.

Whenever I considered tapering down, a little voice in my head would tell me not to. Ignore it and just cut your dose. Your brain will accept very fast. With 32 mg`s I think you can easily go down to 16 and not feel any different. Suboxone has a very long half life and your body has a lot stored. Wait about two weeks and go to 8 mg`s. Then stay there for maybe a month or until you think you`re ready to drop again. Just do it slowly and put some decent time in between drops. Within 9 months I got down to 1 mg and stayed there. I won`t go into my history after that. You can find it easily enough if you want.

But even at 1 mg I still felt a little tired. Suboxone is one powerful drug but not a difficult one to taper down from. Weird,huh?

Good luck on whatever you decide,

rule

Throw down the gauntlet and just do it. You can always go back up later.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:16 am 
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It is a mind game....but that's addiction. I don't know what to do actually. Im all over the shop at the moment. While I feel the high dose is stealing my soul/zapping my energy, I feel like using so badly:(. All the time. I have so much to live for but im just constantly dreaming up ways to escape the way im feeling. I don't know whether I should just taper down as im so tired and I feel like using anyway....or I shouldn't reduce because I feel like using!? Argh.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:46 pm 
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Hey Frenchy.

It's almost like you're experiencing paradoxical cravings on Suboxone. ie the high dose you're on is causing you side-effects that are making you want to seek relief by using.

I'll just report to you that there have been a number of people come on this forum complaining that, after a couple of years on Suboxone, they hit some kind of "wall". They speak of symptoms of depression, amotivation, no desire to socialise, no drive, no libido etc. Now these reports are all anecdotal, so there's been no studies to prove that Suboxone causes these problems. But it's interesting that for many, a reduction in dose of Suboxone does bring some improvement.

I experienced this after spending 3 years on 12mg of Suboxone in 2013. Bear in mind I also have bipolar disorder, so it could have just been a depressive episode. But it was interesting that I had clinical low testosterone, and after I went off Suboxone my symptoms improved and my testosterone eventually returned to near normal levels. I have suspicions that my symptoms were at least partly due to opioid induced endocrinopathy. Chronic use of opioids is known to mess with your hormones, and buprenorphine, while being less problematic than methadone or heroin, still causes some problems.

The only real way to find out if the Suboxone is a player in your problems is to reduce your dose, and note if you experience any improvement in how you're feeling. Because of the ceiling effect, going from 32mg to 16mg shouldn't be too difficult. You may experience some minor withdrawal after a few days. But it would be interesting to see if you feel any better once you stabilise on a lower dose. Just give yourself a week or two to stabilise.

The other possibility is that you're experiencing some kind of rebound depression. Most people who stop taking antidepressants experience depressive symptoms returning after they've been off the anti-depressants for a few months. It's for this reason that most people seem to stay on SSRI medication. It sucks but they're not unlike Suboxone in that regard.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 11:30 pm 
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Thanks for the replies guys. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you; have been busy being Christmassey.

TJ, I think you make an interesting point, that being on a high dose is giving me some kind of feeling so it's making me want to use. The patterns I see myself in, taking one after another after another certainly do point that way. Interestingly though, it's only been the last couple of months that suboxone has made me relaxed/sleepy etc, prior to now it's just given me a bit of an energy lift and no other feeling. Why would that be?

I am unsure about depression. I've always been depressed, and no less so when I was on anti depressants so I don't really know what it feels like not to be if that makes sense. Or if this is just how everyone feels all the time :(. I don't think so though, other people seem happy.

Im a busy person with 5 very busy kids, one of my daughters dances and sings over 20 hours a week, one son is off to Spain to represent Queensland in soccer so he is always training etc and the other 3 are almost as busy. Im constantly in and out of the house doing stuff for the kids and I love it. I dunno, I feel all over the place. I feel like I've lost all my friends over the last 5 years. They seemed to stick around and support me when I fell back into addiction a few years ago but now I'm a lot better they don't seem to be anywhere. I feel the world hates me, surely that's not normal, I used to be so social and people actually liked me.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 11:33 pm 
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Sorry; just re read. You did mention the 'hitting the wall' phenomenon. I wonder if that's it? Maybe my body and brain have just had enough of the large doses of Meds with little 'reward' (so to speak) like when you are using. I dunno. When im doing stuff I do it well, I ran my own business very well for the last 4 years and the job I just had to leave I got state awards 3 months in a row. Im capable; I just hate the way I feel. Always restless and wanting to sleep just to escape the way I feel. I defintelt do not want to go back on anti depressants as getting off them was not worth it for any small benefit they gave me.


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