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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:15 pm 
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You know how people who use too many credit cards sometimes freeze them in a block of ice? I think you should do that or hand the rest of the meds over to a trusted person. Or go get a security deposit box tomorrow and put them in there. Anything that would make accessing them more difficult than just walking into the bathroom!

You don't want to go through another week like last week!! The only reason you should be thinking of going back on is if you are about to relapse on something else.

Don't lose faith in yourself! You've got a whole bunch of people here pulling for you! And it's not just the people that respond to your thread. There are plenty of people who read but don't post. We all want you to succeed! You have told us that 7 years is enough and now is your time to stop. Follow through on your word to us and yourself!

Amy

P.S. Glad you're feeling better today, but don't use it as an excuse!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:39 pm 
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I flushed all mine before starting, I only had one left and I gave it to a trusted source, only had .25mg for a just incase and ended up taking it on the night of 8. It was not worth it aND ended up flushing the one I had someone holding that day. If you plan on a relapse it's going to happen but I would focus on you and get into some sort of recovery and work extremely hard on you.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:23 pm 
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jjindamorning wrote:
I flushed all mine before starting, I only had one left and I gave it to a trusted source, only had .25mg for a just incase and ended up taking it on the night of 8. It was not worth it aND ended up flushing the one I had someone holding that day. If you plan on a relapse it's going to happen but I would focus on you and get into some sort of recovery and work extremely hard on you.


I wish we had the ability to "like" posts here like on facebook, because I would "like" all over this one!

Amy

P.S. It apparently would be way too complicated for us to be able to "like" posts given this format. I've asked! :)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:25 pm 
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Day 10

Went to sleep last night around 10PM, and overall yesterday wasn't to bad, mostly irritable and uninterested. I took a little melatonin and fell to sleep relatively easy, but then I woke up at 3:30AM and couldn't fall back to sleep, so I've been up since then.

Being a little groggy this morning brought on a small headache in the AM, but dissipated and the rest of the morning until early afternoon was as close to a normal day as I've had so far. Then I got slammed with a migraine that destroyed the rest of the afternoon/evening. God, this thing would not go away. I tried some aspirin, but it didn't even dent it. Then came the paranoid anxiety. This anxiety is a product of my head hurting so bad that I can only think about feeling better, and thus I cannot pay attention in meetings, nor can I produce work at the rate I am used to, and this makes me feel like my bosses are all watching and critiquing, and I even get scared about loosing my job if this type of thing doesn't cease soon. That compounds it all and I swear I feel like death would be a wonderful reprieve from that waking nightmare.

I'm worried that there's something else wrong with my brain than just WDs. Permanent damage; synapse damage, chemicals not releasing properly ever again, you know the big boys responsible for normal human emotions of all kind: Serotonin, Dopamine, Neuroephinephrine, etc. This doesn't feel like any withdrawal I remember, but then again I've got the 7 years prior to Suboxone when I used any and everything, plus the 7 years on Suboxone, and only three days of nothing in between the two back in 2008 (rehab/induction), so maybe I just can't remember what the WDs used to be like. I feel like a pain this all consuming would be memorable, however. These kinds of statements frightens me,http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugs-brains-behavior-science-addiction/drugs-brain, b/c I might as well go back on Subs right now if my brain is never going to produce enough Dopamine again to be happy.

I hit the gym after work, not a moment to soon b/c I was literally about to break into a panic stricken rage, or tears. At the gym I was able to loose myself in my workout, and during and after up until now I feel better than I did this afternoon. My head still tingles, and I've got a small headache.

I know a few people recommended migraine medication. Anyone else have destructive migraines after tapering or coming off of long-term sub use? I was contemplating seeing a neurologist and just laying everything on the table if this persists more than another week. I haven't had the best response from doctors when I told them I was on subs, but I feel like if there might be something wrong with my brain than it would be important to let that brain specialist know my history and what brought me to this point.

Overall it seemed like a pretty rough day for day 10, but I stayed true and didn't dose, and I'm going to keep going. I'm actually feeling a little tired; I hope I can sleep all night tonight. I'll keep checking back in tomorrow. I hope everyone is doing well.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:28 pm 
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Migranes are tricky, there are many cause, most common is stress and dehydration(for me). Allergy also bring them on, aND lack of eating, also no caffine, or to much caffine. You have stress, you are probably dehydrated, I know your not on caffine but when did you stop. Mine last anywhere from 2 days to a week. So it could be bad timing, I would go and get gatorade, excedrin pm, and migrane(not extra strength), and then eat a good heathly meal and see how you feel. I'm glad you maDE it through day 10, the worst should be over. I hope you took amys and mine advice and got rid of them.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:55 pm 
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I just wanted to let you know, I am lurking in your corner. following your progress! lol


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:44 pm 
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@jjindamorning
I spoke with my Father and I will be giving him the remainder of my Sub script. The reason I am doing this instead of destroying them is that I'm still not 100% positive I want to live my life off of them. Well, I do want to, but the current pain and life disruption (I've been so messed up during this jump and detox I've made some mistakes at work that have cost us some money -- I haven't done anything like that in the five years I've been there). If it continues more than a month I will likely go back on and schedule back with my doctor. I just don't have the time or lifestyle available to me to endure multiple months of this. I hope that doesn't bum you out. Please know I greatly appreciate your input even when I don't take the advice to the letter. It means a lot to me, thank you for your thoughts.

@happyg1961
Lurk as long as you like! It does help to know there are people out there following along. It gets me amped and I feel responsible to them. Amy kind of touched on that a few posts ago.

Day-12

Yesterday was rough, even though I actually slept straight through the night. I woke up more tired than normal, and I started the day with a small headache that grew into a full on migraine that reduced my productivity and made me a jerk to everyone. When I'm in constant pain, I'm no fun to be around.

But, I made it through that day. I went to sleep relatively easy last night, a little melatonin/gabba/valerian root mix to help induce sleep (which is still a weird thing that doesn't follow a normal pattern, but it is WAY better than it was last week.) I woke up at 2AM this morning, after falling to sleep around 10PM last night, and I was wide awake. I couldn't fall back to sleep so stayed up and watched a movie. Around 5AM I fell back to sleep until 7AM then got up for work.

I was extremely groggy all morning, but no headache. The brain fog was a little less thick, but still present, and I'm guessing the groggy feeling masked any possible morning headache, which seem to be the norm for the past two weeks. I was getting nervous as the afternoon approached b/c that's when the migraines go full blown, which induce panic attacks and extreme irritability, and while I did have a light bout this afternoon, it wasn't as bad as the ones from Monday and Tuesday.

I'm going to end on a good note tonight, and that is for the last few hours of work today and into the early evening I actually felt well. I felt like what I believe a healthy, "normal" me should, and hopefully will feel like more often at some point in the future when my brain returns to the best homoeostasis it can after dealing with all I put it through. The only thing I did different today was take 750mg (one tablet) of DLPA from Source Naturals around 1PM-2PM. I've read quite a bit about DLPA, and bought some before jumping off, but when I took it the first couple days of the jump I was in so much agony I thought it wasn't doing anything to help me and discontinued. If anyone on here has personal experience with long term use of DLPA, please share the Pros/Cons, or just your thoughts on it.

There are a few other things on my mind, like could my long term adderall use, which was legally prescribed, and was taken well past the midpoint of my suboxone therapy, have damaged my brain in a way that is causing all this head pain now that the sub is gone and not masking it? I might get into that tomorrow some more if I've the energy.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:40 am 
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Hey boogie congrats on day 12! It's good you gave those to your dad, that's just as good(I dnot have all of the answers)! Glad you're starting to feel better! This was the week I started to sleep but it was very inconsistent, 3 hr one night, 6 the next, your just brain is hear learning to sleep without opiates. I had splitting headache for 2 weeks, but it never turned into a migrane so I wonder if it is common, I thought it might of been from the robaxane(as soon as I stopped taking it during the day the headaches stopped; it might of been a coincidence). I have a job where if I mess up it cost them money and time, I look at it like I'v been a model employee for 5 years, I'm allowed two bad weeks, And once I start feeling better I'll be an even better employee. No one is perfect and you're bettering yourself.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:05 pm 
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Day-15

My doctor's appointment, which I am hoping to make my closer, is in two weeks, on the 25th. That's my next goal, two more weeks.

I'm still not feeling good. Constant headaches and chest tightness (even though my resting pulse is normal), with severe anger/anxiety. When I don't have a headache, I have a low, dull, pressure sensation all over my head, like my brain is on fire. This last about 85% of the day in some form or another. Primarily the pain focuses in my left/right temples, on the crown of my head, between my eyes, and at the base of the back of the neck. Still very hard to concentrate or commit myself to any activity which requires brain power. My mornings tend to be better than my afternoons, which I still think it b/c of the sleep-aides (melatonin, GABA, Valerian, etc.) that I'm still using almost every night to get 'some' sleep having a lingering sedation effect.

Certainly, there is a lot of it that is still "mental," as there are times I can forgot about it for 15-30 minutes, but then there are times like this past Thursday where I was feeling so awful around 4PM that I couldn't contribute anything to the Manager's meeting we had with our Director. I sat there and shook my leg up and down under the table, and clasped my hands together so hard that I left nail marks on my palms. The pain and fog in my mind/head was so thick I felt as if I was having memory lapses about what was said/done. It was the Charlie Brown grown up effect again. "Wah, wah, wah." I'm trying to appear healthy and normal, but it takes every ounce of myself, leaving nothing left for any other task.

While on Suboxone I was contributive, punctual, snappy, and passionate (most of the time) about learning and bettering myself. Now I feel like a deadbeat. The winning thought still in my mind is feeling better, and it is almost the only thing I can I can think about. At this point I'm beginning to feel like my own worst enemy. I keep pushing it, hoping for that day where the fog clears and the sun rises. I have had little blips of sunshine here and there, but they are few and far between. Two weeks without Suboxone and while it seems like it's been much longer in my minds eye, it feels physically like it's only been a few days. Exercise still helps, but it has a short duration of benefit. It only offers relief for the time while exercising, and an hour or two after.

I will continue my abstinence. I don't want to go back on Suboxone, but at some point I will have to answer the question "how long can I live in this state?" I don't have a desire to use illicit drugs, but I do desire to not be in pain as much as I am. What is quality of life worth to me? Is it worth $500 and four hours of my time every month? Is it worth always knowing I can never be away from my doctor for more than 28-days so that I can get my "medicine" refilled? Two weeks ago that answer was "no." My resolve is still strong, but I fear it weakens by the day.

Has anyone not felt significantly better after one month, which is my next goal? I realize PAWs can last a long time, a year even (or more), but I refuse to do this for a year. I would lose my job, I would isolate my loved ones, I would spiral into insanity.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:20 am 
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I'm sorry that it's taking so long to feel a break through. Right now, when it's so hard to see a light at the end of the tunnel and hope is hard to find, just know that everyone who reads this and everyone who's been through this, is pulling for you. There are people across the country who are routing for this to end for you. There's no one, not one person here who doesn't want you to turn a corner tomorrow.

You can get through this. As much as we might wish you through this, it's just something that you need to hang on through. There are people here who have done this and they have come out the other side, and you can too! They had to put one foot in front of the other until their bodies started feeling better. It may be the toughest thing you've ever had to do, but you can do it. And you need to know that you can do it because you then have to go ahead and guard your recovery for the rest of your life. Getting through this detox is challenging and keeping away from relapse will be hard at times too.

I hope Sunday is the day! Keep on letting us know how it's going . There are more people than you probably think reading this thread.

Amy

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:06 am 
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I had a lot of chest tightness, it toOK about a month to go away. It was weird cause I wasn't really sure what it was and still don't. The headaches might be a side effect of another medicine


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:33 am 
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Good morning. This is written with care and concern. IMO , we expect to much from ourselves. For instance, a cold lasts about 9 days give or take, when the symptoms are gone we still don't feel 100%. But we expect to feel 100% after 7 years on sub and time before that on another opiate? If you think about it rationally maybe you won't feel so bad that you aren't where you want to be "Yet". You will get to a good place, your brain is not damaged beyond repair ,IMO You are healing. A little each day but healing none the less. If you don't set time limits on your healing you may not focus on it and may feel better overall.

Even with a heroin detox, it's an average of three months until a person really feels well.

Hang on and know many of us are rooting for you


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:33 pm 
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Hey boogie :)

Gosh I'm sure this is tough! I could only imagine how on day 15 ur still waiting to feel better. I'm not ready to taper yet. It's been yrs and I may never stop taking it. But for someone like u who's ready to stop, u can definitely do this. U only have to feel like hell this last time, and u never have to worry about this agony again. Like Tiki, I too always tried to think of how getting over an awful case of the flu could be comparable to withdrawal. We didn't have a choice but to deal with the flu and feel horrible til it went away on its own. Maybe try to think of it that way, anything to help u get from minute to minute if u have to. U absolutely will make it to the other side, and it could be any day now. I'm sure there's a lot of ppl on the internet following ur story like Amy said, and ur inspiring them as u go through this. I don't know that I'll ever be ready to stop sub, but if I were, u would be my hero. Just wanted to throw u some support cause it sounds like u need it right now. What a great place for all of us to come and be around ppl in our situation. Good luck boogie, ur better days are just around the corner!!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:54 pm 
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You folks are amazing. Every thought and sentiment you leave gives me strength to complete the task at hand. Thank you for your time, consideration, and support jenn, tiki, jjinda, amy, hurten, don, razor, aqua, happy, quiet, and anyone else who might just be lurking. There is a kings wealth to be found in this place. Not just the love you've show to a faceless stranger, but the knowledge you share makes this site invaluable to anyone thinking about going on, actively on, or wanting to quit Sub.

I don't want to jinx anything, so knock on wood, fingers crossed, rabbit foot in hand,....I finally had a better day!!!!!!!!

For consistency with my previous posts I'll beak down the days further down in this post, but since this could be a game changer I'll quickly summarize for anyone who doesn't want to read all of it. I swear it was Amy's message from this past Saturday that did it, she's good luck! Sunday I didn't have a migraine all day. I still didn't feel great, but I wasn't in agony. Monday kinda went south real fast and the migraine, head pain, and anxiety came back, but then today was another day like Sunday! I'm hoping it's the pattern donh mentioned early on about better days and then worse days popping back up only to be followed by increasingly better days, at least I hope I have more "better" days this week; 2 to 1 in favour of good so far! I'm half expecting more bad days to come, or not so much expecting as trying to repress the anticipation of freedom from this b/c I'm so frightened that it could return. It's almost like I want to expect the worse so I don't get let down. I'm working on changing that mentality. One step at a time, right?

Day 16 - Sunday

In retrospect, I'm beginning to think the key to feeling better for me is to only sleep 6 hours a night, no more, no less. Perhaps too much sleep overloads me on Serotonin? I woke up at 5am Sunday morning, giving me around 6.25 hours of total sleep (only woke up once that night, and didn't need anything to fall to sleep!) My waking head fog was significantly lighter than Saturdays, and by the time noon rolled around I realized I didn't have a splitting headache yet. The day continued like that, no migraine, and I was pleased to fall asleep again that night w/o any sleep aid.

Day 16 was certainly better than any previous day before it, but in context of the past two weeks, it's still not what I would consider a "good" day, but it's something that broke a long chain of back-to-back bad days and it gave me hope. Without the strong physical pain consuming my every thought I got my first real dose of what I can only guess was depression that afternoon. Even though I was excited about the possibility of it being a turning point I couldn't shake this deep sadness creeping over me. I didn't want to do anything but sit, and even sitting was a chore. I watched back-to-back movies to keep my mind occupied. I felt so emotionally detached that day, but I'll take that over the migraines and panic attacks. I remember it rained all day, and at one point I just sat on my balcony listening and watching the rain. I remember thinking of a E.A. Poe line, "all is a dream within a dream..." Nothing felt real. It was a strange day.

Day 17 - Monday

I woke up around 5am again, but instead of getting up I was groggy and lazy enough to fall back to sleep for another hour and a half. When I finally got up I realized the thick head fog had returned and was pissed we didn't spend time together the previous day. By 10:30am, at work, the migraines and stress/panic started again and I spent most of the day feeling awful. I remember getting home last night after working out and realizing the migraine had dissipated. I feel asleep again last night w/o any sleep aids which is a blessing.

Day 18 - Today

Woke up at 4:30am this morning, and I made myself get up and stay up, again putting me right around the 6 hours sleep mark, and again reducing the morning brain fog significantly. Energy levels were kind of low this morning, and it was still very hard to concentrate or care about much of anything, but afternoon came and I still hadn't had the splitting headaches. I did have a small fit of anxiety mid-afternoon, and at one point I thought I felt the migraine creeping up on me, but it did go away and stay away. My head feels a little strange this evening after working out, and I do have a small headache, but it feels like a normal headache, something I could take Tylenol to get rid of.

I stopped the Clonidine on Sunday (the last dose was Saturday) and I've been monitoring my BP to ensure I don't get a rebound spike. I'm still taking a few herbals/OTCs for brain/antioxidant/heart health. I'm on my third week of eating entirely Vegan in an attempt to clean/detox my body, get healthy, and lose weight. I'm actually down 25lbs since I jumped 18-days ago! I haven't had caffeine, nicotine, or alcohol for the same amount of time. I'm exercising five days a week for at least an hour, and I'm trying to introduce meditation and relaxing breathing techniques into my daily return for stress relief.

Looking back over the past 18-days I see that I used the pain to full my lifestyle change across the board. I was furious at myself for letting it come to this, and I wanted to start a life that ensured I would never again follow down the path that brought me to my jump just over two weeks ago. I still have some of that anger, and while a lot of it is probably mental/psychological, I'm sure some of it is chemical balance being askew. It's possible I made it harder for myself changing so many things at once like I did, but I felt it was all or nothing. I'd spent too much of my life taking it easy, not punishing myself, and seeking pleasure without pain.

I hope to return in a day or two and report more "better" days. But, if I don't have better days to report at least I know I can rant and rave about it here in a supportive environment. Thanks again you guys/gals, here's to the hope of better days!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:08 am 
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Glad to hear things have turned the corner for you boogie, did you quit all the at once? Hope the days are more good the news bad.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:37 pm 
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Another week down. Today is day 24.

I had a few good days/evenings in the past week. Last Friday, 6/19, I went to my folks house in the evening after working out. I felt kind of manic, which is the first in a long time, and was somewhat welcome. My parents know everything about my drug history, and played an integral part in my recovery over the past seven years. They are supporting my decision to live free of Suboxone. They were very uplifting and my good mood felt like it made our time together that much better.

Saturday, 6/20, was kind of rough. I went to see Jurassic World but as soon as I got in the theatre I got a slight headache and was anxious and irritable through the entire movie. Every little sound, every person eating popcorn, or whispering to their friend irritated me to death. I almost got up and left but I was there with family and couldn't leave. The afternoon was slightly better but then the evening/night I had a recurrence of RLS and crawling skin that I hadn't had in nearly a week. It was frustrating to have a symptom that I thought was gone return.

Sunday I didn't have any irritability or anxiety, but I was pretty gloomy all day. Very unmotivated and lethargic, and today was more of the same. Had a creeping headache from 3-5PM this afternoon.

I've been sleeping a lot better than I was the first couple of weeks, so that's a positive. I still wake up once or twice, but I'm getting decent REM sleep now.

I see my Sub doc this Thursday. Going to explain that I tapered early and will no longer be taking Suboxone. I've got a number of concerns I'd like to talk to him about, but I'm not to confident in his answers as he also said it should be a cake walking getting off of Sub with little to no WDs, and that was so far from the truth it almost seems like a flat out lie, or a very uneducated guess.

Over all I'm still in the game, but I'm still not anywhere close to where I need to be physically or mentally. My once A-game is now a low C-game. I'm just not who I want to or need to be yet. I'm hoping getting to 30-days this weekend will bring another big move in the right direction. I'll check in this weekend if not before.

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Last edited by boogie2dope on Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:04 pm 
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boogie...I had to laugh when I was reading about the aggravating popcorn eaters at the movie :) I am the same way! I always have someone sit around me that smacks their popcorn, slurps their coke, making all kinds of noise tearing open boxes of candy and I am sitting there so mad that there is steam coming out my ears! LOL I hear ya!

Yes, 30 days is a milestone and I am hoping that the thrill of reaching 30 days will bring you a feeling of great accomplishment. I know you don't feel close to 100% yet but each day is closer to that day! You're also sleeping better and that is a BIG PLUS.

I'm having RLS problems now too so I completely sympathize with you. It is maddening! You just pray for 5 minutes of relief...just long enough for you to shut your eyes for a few minutes and not feel that creepy-crawly feeling. I hope you get some relief from it soon.

Hang in there and BEST WISHES
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:42 pm 
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Thanks CA. I appreciate the words of encouragement! I see you're down under 1mg now, congrats! Are you using film or tablets (maybe water taper?) I think the reason I jumped somewhere between 1mg-2mg instead of tapering lower was that I've been on 2mg tabs for a while, generic tabs are much cheaper for me, and trying to get an accurate does under 1mg was tough. I had run some practice cuts trying to split the tablet down to equal parts, but even splitting a 2mg in half with a razor sharp pill cutter almost never resulted in equal halves. I was concerned that I would be getting random doses plus or minus a little every day! I even crushed up one the week before my jump and attempted to make a water taper mix following a taper journal on this blog, but when I practiced pulling it up into the syringe in 1ml volumes I saw crushed pill stuck to the side of the bottle and was worried there was no way to be sure the sub-suspension was accurately dosed. I'd be interested to know how you're doing it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:41 pm 
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You're A game will come! You just need to be patient, it's only been 21 days.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:04 pm 
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Day-32

Had the deepest contemplation about going back on Suboxone today; More thought put into it than any day since my jump. Today was a bad one, and unfortunately it seems like every bad day makes me forget about all of the good or better days I've had. Full on headaches, loss of concentration, no focus or desire to accomplish anything, and what I've begun to call "brain-burn," which I can only describe as my brain feeling like it's on fire inside of my skull. This lasted for a good five hours, ramping up around 11AM, peeking with the worst of it around 2:30PM, and beginning to taper off close to 5PM. There is some residual headache and anxiety from going through it, and fearing that it will return, but at this point in the evening it is bearable. I'm worried there's something else going on, like GAD, bipolar, or some other psychological issue rooted in the increase or decrease of brain chemicals from what is considered baseline by the medical community. I see my family doctor next week and will likely ask for a gauntlet of tests to see how my physical being is doing, and I also plan on asking for a referral to a Psych and/or a Neurologist.

In other news, I saw my Sub doctor last Thursday, told him I'd been off for nearly a month. He was happy for me but shocked about the problems I had coming off and the lingering issues I've had the past few weeks. He believes the majority of the symptoms I describe to him are Anxiety. He asked me to call once a month for the next six to check-in and give him an update. He's a nice enough guy so I assumed positive intent and not that he just wanted me to pick him first if I decided to go back on Sub. After that I did explain if the symptoms don't get better or relax enough for me to have a decent quality of life that I'd most likely be back. Relapsing on Oxy or H is not an option for me, at least I would prefer for my own well being to go back on Sub before I ever got to the point of feeling like I had no other choice but to snort/shoot/pop that old shit.

I am happy for all of you that were able to overcome and last through Suboxone detox and PAWS, especially if you had some/all of the issues I've been experiencing. You have my respect and admiration, and you are the inspiration that helped me make it to day 32. I'm still here, I'm still fighting, and I still have a mustard seed of hope left in my heart.

Until next time, I wish you the best.

_________________
"If you're tired of starting over, stop giving up. Don't let your dreams be dreams. Just do it!"


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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