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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:00 pm 
Like everyone here, I started Suboxone to get off of opiates, Percoset in my case. It has done wonders for my family life and is a much better life than I had prior to being on it. That said, I know that I can and maybe should, only take 6mg per day because the 8mg I take has some negative side effects on me. Depressed respiration causing wheezing, extreme constipation, and insomnia. When I take 6mg per day these symptoms disappear or (in the case of the constipation) are lessened. I think the the only reason still take 8mg per day is because of how it makes me feel. Isn't that the same reason I took the Percoset? Do you see my dilemma? Real or imagined, it is what I think. I may be too much inside my head and I welcome comments from others.


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 Post subject: Tolerance
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:02 pm 
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Sub is a funny drug. The lower I got with my taper, the drug affected me the same way. Once I got down to 1mg, I had some pain so I took .50 extra and really felt a buzz.

So if you go down to 6mg and stabilize, then take 4mg for awhile, the 6 will give you that feeling if you go back up. Like I said, funny drug. Or should I say, a very powerful drug.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:33 am 
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Me personally, I'd consider it a bad idea. It still shows there's a desire to get high.

However, it's no reason to stop Suboxone. If you let yourself stabilise on a dose, eventually you will stop feeling its agonist buzz. IMO, it's only then that recovery starts blooming. By learning to fight the urge to abuse your Suboxone, you're actually learning to prevent relapse in the future. Developing these craving refusal skills can be used heaps in your life, if you one day choose to taper, or feel the desire to use other addictive drugs.

I think we really need to tread carefully when it comes to self-medicating with buprenorphine, and straying from our prescribed dose. If we ever have to, we really need to examine our motives. Personally, I just don't do it at all. I take whatever the script tells me, nothing more, nothing less. If I desire to change something, I tell my doctor, and let him call the shots. Drug addiction is an attempt at self-medication, whether it's heroin, speed, vicodin, buprenorphine. For me, I had to learn to "let go" of control of what drugs I used, and how much I used, and when, in order to grow out of addiction. That way I'm not abusing Suboxone, I'm just using it.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:05 am 
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i take like tear said" you do not need to stop your subs.it is much better to take your meds "
and drown out that deadly addiction behave'r!! speaking for my self :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:42 pm 
tearj3rker wrote:
Me personally, I'd consider it a bad idea. It still shows there's a desire to get high.

However, it's no reason to stop Suboxone. If you let yourself stabilise on a dose, eventually you will stop feeling its agonist buzz. IMO, it's only then that recovery starts blooming. By learning to fight the urge to abuse your Suboxone, you're actually learning to prevent relapse in the future. Developing these craving refusal skills can be used heaps in your life, if you one day choose to taper, or feel the desire to use other addictive drugs.

I think we really need to tread carefully when it comes to self-medicating with buprenorphine, and straying from our prescribed dose. If we ever have to, we really need to examine our motives. Personally, I just don't do it at all. I take whatever the script tells me, nothing more, nothing less. If I desire to change something, I tell my doctor, and let him call the shots. Drug addiction is an attempt at self-medication, whether it's heroin, speed, vicodin, buprenorphine. For me, I had to learn to "let go" of control of what drugs I used, and how much I used, and when, in order to grow out of addiction. That way I'm not abusing Suboxone, I'm just using it.


I'm sorry, but I deeply disagree with that first sentence. Plenty of people take Suboxone bc they DON'T want to get high. It's being tested and has even begun to be prescribed as an antidepressant. Idk what took so long; it's pretty obvious that opiates have antidepressant qualities.

It is also like saying that if you don't "still have a desire to get high," you should be able to come off Sub easy as pie..but that isn't true, because it changes your brain chemistry. Maybe OP needs that chemical change (like we all do, or those of us who haven't used in a long time would be able to get off with few problems, no?)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:40 am 
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Read my post again Ironic, and read yours, and tell me where I said the things you're suggesting.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:48 pm 
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tearj3rker wrote:
Read my post again Ironic, and read yours, and tell me where I said the things you're suggesting.


I have to agree, where did Tear say any of the things you have posted. Perhaps you misread his post? If you did not misread it I would appreciate if you could explain how you came to interpret his post as you stated above.


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 Post subject: I agree
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:42 pm 
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Thanks Tear,

You said it all nice and clear. What you described was exactly what my Dr. told me. They wanted complete control of my dose and I wasn't to defer from their prescription. He got mad when I would taper down before my next visit and I couldn't understand why. Now I do understand, and realize just how addictive behavior happens even when in recovery. I hadn't surrendered.

Today I am reading some really helpful stuff here. That, or I've had my eye's shut for too long.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:10 pm 
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Thanks Tear, that is a great way to describe abusing and



THANKS TEAR, that some good stuff.... use your medicine not..... abuse it.....i've never thought about it like this...I use the meds that give me no buzz,,,, but I abuse the ones that do

Mel :wink:











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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:18 pm 
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in response to IRONIC'S post....Pray suboxone will never be prescibed for Depression! I'm off just 2 weeks after being on for 3 years on very low dose to get off pain meds. this is an addictive drug and not EASY to wean off of. at least not for me and so many others.. Still not feeling normal and dont expect to for some time. just trying to be positive and make the best of it trying to live healthy. could be worse tho. have reAD SOME horror stories. feel sooo bad for these people who didnt do enuf research before starting this drug. including myself. it definitely has its place, some people are truley benefited but it is way over prescribedand in too high doses in my opinion


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:52 pm 
dunkamom wrote:
in response to IRONIC'S post....Pray suboxone will never be prescibed for Depression! I'm off just 2 weeks after being on for 3 years on very low dose to get off pain meds. this is an addictive drug and not EASY to wean off of. at least not for me and so many others.. Still not feeling normal and dont expect to for some time. just trying to be positive and make the best of it trying to live healthy. could be worse tho. have reAD SOME horror stories. feel sooo bad for these people who didnt do enuf research before starting this drug. including myself. it definitely has its place, some people are truley benefited but it is way over prescribedand in too high doses in my opinion


It already is. I personally know someone on it for depression.

[web]http://suboxonetalkzone.com/depression.pdf[/web]

I agree that it is prescribed in way too high doses, and also that if I had done more research, I may have not chose to do it.

But I am on it now, .75/day and I think I am gonna jump to .625 today..


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:00 am 
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Ironic, how do you take doses so low and be accurate? I would think that the difference between .75mg and .625mg would look incredibly alike. How would you even know what .75mg looks like?


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 Post subject: Re: I agree
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:49 pm 
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rule62 wrote:
Now I do understand, and realize just how addictive behavior happens even when in recovery. I hadn't surrendered.


Very interesting perspective. Now, my Doctor takes a policy (with me at least) that doesn't force me either way. I decided when and how much to taper. I started on 8 and am on 2 milligrams now (well 2.25 but that is just for two or three more days). Doing this makes me feel like I am in total control and really helps my confidence. I have no relapsed once since getting on Sub over a year.

I just find it so interesting that so many different opinions exist in regards to sub.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:11 pm 
Fireman wrote:
Ironic, how do you take doses so low and be accurate? I would think that the difference between .75mg and .625mg would look incredibly alike. How would you even know what .75mg looks like?


I use generic bupe, Roxane 2 mg tabs.

I always cut them in half to start, so that's 1 mg each half.

To be honest (and clear: I'm not telling anyone they should do this), once I got below 1mg, I started insufflating my doses. Below 1mg, the bupe doesn't seem to absorb fully. The liquid taper method can work, but it was very difficult for me to use the right amount of water and I was always losing part of the dose. It would gum up inside my oral syringe, it was just such a pain in the ass. Insufflation nearly doubles the bioavailability, which makes you absorb more of the drug, which should be taken into account. For me, I didn't care about the BA (I actually don't want to absorb more), I cared about the CONSISTENCY. Bioavailbility is so so so variable when you dose sublingually, and pretty much the same for insufflation.

I don't necessarily recommend this method bc aside from bupe not being made for your nostrils, the act of insufflation could be a big trigger for some people. It isn't for me..but I know people who IM their Sub and I wouldn't be able to do that. I also have to mention that I took my Sub sublingually until I got down to 1mg. Snorting it doesn't make it more "fun" or anything (it feels the same to me) I only started doing it when the doses got so hard to measure.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:17 pm 
tearj3rker wrote:
Read my post again Ironic, and read yours, and tell me where I said the things you're suggesting.


This was awhile ago, but after reading it again it seems I must have misunderstood.

Sorry about that, tearjerker.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:30 pm 
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All opioids are anti-depressants. Actually, they're likely the best anti-depressants around. I just went to hospital and saw my mum (who's usually a worrier) after hip-replacement surgery. She looked happy for the first time in years after the nurses came in and gave her a shot of morphine.

But they haven't been prescribed for psychiatric illness since the early 1900's for a couple of reasons, mainly tolerance and dependence. Moreso than other drugs, tolerance builds rapidly with opioids. It doesn't take long for the anti-depressant effect to wear thin and a dose increase is required. But the big problem is addiction.

I'm sceptical of this prevailing idea that Suboxone is not addictive, that it's only dependence forming when taken properly. RB have perpetuated this idea that Suboxone is as benign as anti-depressants. With both you may get withdrawal on discontinuation, but you don't chase or crave either drugs addictively like you would cigarettes or crack or heroin. The problem is, every time I've gone off buprenorphine, I've craved it... for months after. I would actually want it over heroin. But heroin would always be more available. I've never gone "geee... some Effexor would be so nice right now..." :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:32 am 
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I think for some of us, Suboxone is addictive. I know I used Suboxone to try and get high quite regularly, the "high" is not a high like I was used to, it was pretty weak, but I chased it nonetheless. BUT, I also wasn't out chasing down drugs while I was on Suboxone, I never used other opiates while on Suboxone. My "active" addiction may not have gone all the way to zero, but it went from 100mph to maybe 5 or 10mph? It gave me enough distance from my 100mph active addiction to at least attempt to get my head screwed on straight.

Suboxone may cause some kind of quasi addiction?? I know early on in my treatment, I would ALWAYS run myself out of pills the day before my appointment. No matter how many I had for the month, I'd run myself the day before my next appointment.

The thing that floors me is this, SO many other opiate addicts get on Suboxone and feel almost no effects from it at all and I'm all like :shock: , I honestly used to think they were bullshitting me, but I've seen too many people on Suboxone who really don't get a buzz at all that I finally believe them.

Suboxone is just some weird shit T!!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:16 am 
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Yeah. Subox hasn't had any real stone for me for years. The only times I may feel something is if I increase my dose and that's only for a few days. The time I felt really stoned was when I first went on it, when my tolerance was tiny. Over 8 years I've gone from someone who got stoned off 2mg, to someone who's on 12mg but should probably be on 16.


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 Post subject: false high
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:40 pm 
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Yeah, sub is surely is a strange brew. I read an old thread where a lady wrote she doubled her dose to 64mg a day because she THOUGHT she got a buzz>>>?<<<. But a shot of Temigesic 0.3mg would definantely give a nice buzz.
For me, I thought my first dose off 4mg sub was a placebo, and I've never had a true high off sub.
Also what's "bio-availabilty 23%" mean? is that like 10mgs taken equals 2.3mg absorbed into the blood stream?
Anyway sub stops ya getting sick-sicker, and that's what it's good for.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:55 am 
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I have a theory that there is a balance in suboxone treatment and recovery in general... You do what you have To do to stay sober, but at the same time you should do what makes you happy enough to STAY in recovery. So, if 8mg is maybe a tiny bit too much, but is what keeps you sober with your life in order, then what is the problem? You shouldn't worry too much about the politics of what details you "should" be doing... Or shouldn't. Stay clean & stay happy, whichever way is best for you... Within reason


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