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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:06 pm 
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I have been on Suboxone for two years. The first year I would go on 3 day vacations every month, got to be less but I still did it. Then I started taking benzos & Gabapentin with it because I DO suffer from anxiety(bad) and it gave Subs what it was missing to(me always wanting to go and shoot up some Oxy, Dillies, Morphine or eat handfulls of Norcos or Percocets) Now, I've got to where I just bang my Subs so I don't have to wait if I want to go on a vacation, I have to take benzo's with it even then to help my anxiety and it also still gives the Sub what its missing (i'm not talkng about a buzz, shooting subs dsnt even give me a buzz, maybe a little energy boost at first if I wait 24 hours) but by doing it this way when I would go to score I was able to feel the other opiates fully since it brings the half-life down to only 12 hours instead of 36. Now I was thinking, back when I was taking full-agonist, I didn't really take benzo's, I would get a couple every now again for the fuck of it, but not alot, and since Methadone is a full-agonist I figured it might help me in that department.
If I was to go on done I don't know how to explain it to my family, Subs will just be another thing I failed at, and in there heads probly driving an hour or two hours to a clinic everyday is just for me to to get buzzed, I just don't wanna go out and score pills all the time. This last relaspe I really got into it, the whole part, not just getting the pills but driving around looking for hours, talking to the crazies, in a fucked up way I miss it, but I know I shouldn't be doing it of course. After going through all my savings in a couple days, I still wanted to go at it and was thinking about going and stealing some cash off a family member debit card..then I just got on the Sub again, and took 3300mg of Gabapentin throughout the day and 7 Klonopin and a valium to get rid of the the thought of getting the money off the card....
The main problem is the anxiety, plus my doctor wants to taper me(I don't want to taper and I know a methadone clinic will not bug me too) If I can get my sub doctor to write me Gabapentin or some kind of benzo that could help, but my insurance is going to stop covering me anyway in a few months with Subs anyway. Anyway, would go on the done' in a heartbeat because I KNOW it works better with cravings, it's just the closest one is about 50 mins away, then and hour and a half to my job, then 20 mins home. The other one is two hours to it and two hours back to my house the 20 mins to work(it's also right by my Sub Doctor) so really, thats the only problem, and my vehichle is getting kinda older. I'm just tired of not getting better, and I think a stricter setting would help me greatly..
Also any advice on how to explain this to my family would help!! Dad was in marines and a football coach, I dropped my Subs and he asked what it was and i said "my Medicene" his response" why don't you just quit" So, ya. And I'm to much of an anxious fucker to move out on my on, and the fact I end up blowing throuh most my savings after a few months of doing okay...


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:18 pm 
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TSP,

You sure have one messed up addict brain! Have you discussed any other meds for anxiety that are not benzos? I take Effexor for my anxiety and it seems to help.

Keep in mind that all drugs have what they call a "swing effect". Meaning, if you take a benzo, which is a depressant, when you stop it swings back hard the opposite direction and your anxiety will be far worse than if you took no benzo's. Same with stimulants. A person stays up for days and then sleeps for days. The best possible way to feel normal is to not take those drugs. But then your brain can't accept that and we totally understand here.

To go onto methadone from Suboxone seems like you've given up the hope for recovery. I say no. Work on the benzo/anxiety problem first with your doctor. Tell him everything you told us here. It's possible that your insurance company will keep covering you if your doctor sends them the paperwork requesting it. That's how mine works. I normally get approved for 8 months and then my doctor has to do it again. They are just pushing me to get off of it and I won't until I'm ready to.

If you stay on the Suboxone and work on the anxiety issue you won't need to tell your Dad anything except that you are working on a recovery program to get off of opiates and benzo's. Hopefully he'll accept that.

That's my 2ยข. Let's see what everyone else has to say.

rule

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:34 pm 
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I don't know if my doctor would be ok if I said all of that, I would probly be kicked out, and I kinda want to be on maintaince for life anyway...but ya I'm not saying just give me benzos, Gabapentin works very well for my anxieyt at doses at 900-1200mg for me, and isn't THAT recreational, once you have done it high dose for just a couple of days you don't get any fun out of it, and it un-scheduled. But anyway, I just know klonopin works for me the best. I don't want xanax or valium, just 2mg of that at most if the doctor will do it.. I really do not wanna go through all the bs of trying all the anit-deppressents that may work, but alot of people find don't work and keep switchicng, get all the side effects, ect.. Just give me something that I know works for me, both meds are physically addicting anyway (I think). I'm not bitching at you, i'm just saying.
And I ended up getting the Roxis, scammed a way to say I needed gas and some other stuff which I haven't done in forever(everything I do I use my own money now, drug wise, i'm gonna pay them back without them knowing payday) but I just really want these...I wished I NEVER touched a damn needle. I was into reading William Burrough, Jack Keruouac and all the beat people and after reading "Junky" in HS I always wanted to try it,dunno why. First experice was with 8mg of Diludded. Anyway, yes I do have a fucked up adddict brain, maybe because I had a really bad head injury on the left side of my brain as a kid(everyone said I acted different afterwards) and head injuries on the left side can cause anxiety, which I've gotten a good dose of and have used benzo's since the age of 15(27 now) which were not prescribe to me to deal with it. I'm rambling. But thank you I've really been debating this for long time.
I got a feeling if I go in to my doctor tell her I've been taking benzos the whole time(well most the time) i've been on Subs, shoot them at times so it shortens the half life so I can use a full-agonist whenever I want and will she help me with my anxiety, I will be out, she got upset over me testing positive for bud kinda. I dunno I'm rambling. But thank you for your advice, other people feel free to chime in...


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 6:10 pm 
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I agree with Rule. It's a rare doctor that will let you take benzos while on Suboxone, but if it is truly needed a well-experienced doctor, like Dr. J., might, if that's the best treatment. You need a good doctor to work with you on both the anxiety and the addiction.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:24 pm 
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I just switched from suboxone to methadone. It took 10 days from my inital intake to the day I got dosed which was suprisingly fast compared to what ive seen. I started taking suboxone last may to get off heroin/oxy, and except for a handful of slips ive been clean that time, last slip was 6 months ago. About 4 months ago I got perscribed suboxone for the first time, I had been getting it off the street for nearly a year. I was on 4mg a day when I was getting it myself, and it worked amazingly well for me for months, like it was great. Better for me than anybody else I knew taking it. Completely erradicated my w/ds from high dose heroin and made me feel good. I was started at 12mg when I got perscribed then bumped up to 16mg a few weeks later since it was wearing off much faster than usual. Over the last 6 months or so the subs havent been working anywhere near as well for me. In the last 2 months I was loosing it... I was sick 2 hours after, sometimes 1 hour, after I took a sub. It was horrible... I couldnt deal with it anymore I knew I was going to relapse and throw away 6 months of clean time. So I decided to switch to methadone. It was a lot of paperwork, my doc had write letters saying he wouldnt perscribe suboxone, blah blah. They told me originally at the clinic that I would have to get the suboxone completely out of my urine, which wasnt possible for me I wouldnt have been able to. So I kept pressing on about it and talking to them and eventually they just said alright, which is really suprising because everybody else I knew who went there, script or no script, had to get clean from the subs. I stopped ~36 hours before my first dose just to make it work slightly better... Now as far as the inital methadone dose, they wern't able to start me on anything higher than 30mg for the first 3 days... and thats nowhere near equivalent to 16mg of suboxone. Its been rough, I'm on day 4 now and today they gave me 40mg, ill be up to 50mg on sunday and I have to stay at 50 for 5 days after, and Im really hoping 50 starts to help because right now I'm in w/ds, not insanely bad, but my pain is thru the roof. I have severe tooth damage, every one of my teeth is open and ruined, they all need to come out. The pain is literally unbearable... I never realized suboxone did as much for pain as it did. I thought it was useless for pain but it actaully does a LOT more than you think when your off it. It made the pain of having a mouth full of dying teeth with the roots still in them bearable. Now its insane. The low dose of methadone isnt lasting more than 6-8 hours pain wise, maybe 15-18 hours w/d wise and its still not killing them completely. BUT it is getting slightly better each day from the buildup and the slow dose increases. And I can already feel like its working better for me than suboxone. I just need to be on an appropriate dose, a 16mg a day sub tolerance after being on it for over a year is higher than most people think. Anyways I dont mind going there daily, I get to smoke weed here which I couldnt do at all at my sub doc (really helps me)... Cant drink but thats ok, or take benzos which I couldnt on subs either, their both realllllyyy strict about benzos. I know I made the right choice, for me, to go on methadone. Everybody is different and subs are better for some while methadone is better for others. For me, methadone isnt that much harder for me to get off than subs, subs are a bitch for me due to the length, worse than heroin by far... I dont plan on coming off methadone though, possibly ever. I had a bad, length habit mixed with other things going on and I dont see myself being able to be off maintanence, at least not anytime remotely soon. Also, suboxone for me did one thing very well from the start, which was kill my cravings. I never had cravings on subs, hopefully the methadone works as well for me as they did in that aspect, but the w/ds I was having every 2 hours allday everyday for months was unbearable I wouldnt wish that upon anybody.. sucks too because it worked so incredibly good for the first few months. The last month on it was absolutely brutal. If you stop taking the subs for at least a day before the methadone you'll feel your first dose... I was on subs for 15 months and I skipped the day before and still felt my first dose from being on 16mg of subs a day and it was only 30mg of methadone. I cant wait to get my dose higher because I just want relief, this whole thing has been a rollercoaster ride. Another thing my clinic needed was proof of addiction over a year or else they could only place me in a 90 day detox program. Fuck. That. I just went over a year on suboxone which barely any progression in my treatment, getting me sick, taking 30 days to get me stable on methadone, then ripping me off before Im even clean from subs isnt going to help me... I didnt have the paperwork. I never tried getting clean before this year, and everything that happened last year was on the street, no doctors involved. I pretty much begged them I was like this is the only clinic in the area (their all run by the same company with the same restrictions) so I had literally NO other option for clinics and this one is only 3 mi from my house. Also that subs wernt working, so there was nothing else for me to try... detox wouldnt have worked, id have been in the same place when I got out, plus they wouldnt take me because I didnt have any heroin in my system at the time just subs... I had a dentist that cut me off of vicodin and percocet after I was calling at odd hours, calling the pharmacy incessently trying to see if my scripts ready, etc... just addictive behavior, and had him write up a letter about that to see if it would help... Well I go in this monday for my first dose, and they said I was in the maintance program ( even they were like congratz because here its pretty hard to get into, especially if you havent been in treatment before a year its a big thing here) and I was so pumped... they didnt even see the letter yet. The only 1 other clinic around 5 times further from my house, not currently accepting new patients, and I have a protective order from a patient there and they didnt want to coordinate it, so I was fucked if this clinic didnt take me for MMT not detox. I was so incredibly relieved when I go accepted and got into MMT that was the last obstacle. I almost flipped because when I went in there monday I took a urine test and 3 minutes later they come back saying well heres the problem. I cant dose you becuase you still have suboxone in your system and youll go into withdrawl... I said no, you wont, thats only if I take a sub AFTER the methadone. I can take subs for 10 years then take methadone with no problem, its after. And I said we disscussed this thoroughly that I understand your risks and concern but I cant do it like that, I literally wouldnt make it 1-2 weeks to get it out of my urine w/o using. So this other lady comes over and says "they said no" I was like wtf, then she said "I mean yes, they said yes" which was the greenlight to dose me. Some paperwork, PPD for TB, bloodwork, physical exam, bunch of questions, and a picture for an ID card later and you get dosed, at least thats how this clinic works. Took 10 days from the inital intake which was all paperwork and a urine test. Good luck hope this works out for you, make sure you want to do this because it is a lot of work its not just a breeze switching, it will take effort, and if you decide its not working as well for you which is possible, methadone isnt better for everybody, then you cant just go back to subs, youd have to abstain for 3-10 days depending on how long/much methadone you were on. So just make sure youre certain thats all. Luckily I can already tell its working better for me. Sorry for all the rambling, if you have any questions or want to check in with me as I get thru the beggining to give you tips or advice PM me. Im on day 4 right now. Good luck.


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