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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:41 am 
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So, i dont know how to describe my situation, but, it is one that i have searched everywhere for over the internet and not really found anything relating to it. I have been an oc addict for about 2 years, on and off, and my last "stint" lasted for about 4 months doing an 80 mg a day. So i decided i wanted to get clean on my own because i have been to NA and dont like it, and dont want to have to quit my job/school in order to go to rehab to get clean, although i have decided if i do relapse, then im shippin myself away. So, i have been clean at this point, for a little more than 4 days...im at about 100 hours clean right now. I can say whole heartedly, that just getting this far, has given me more hope and more real happiness than i have had in the past two years. But this is where I see things not being so great; i have been using suboxone and subutex to get me through withdrawals ( i bought 1 8mg pill of each) and now they have ran out. I took 2 mg of subs twice a day- one in the morning once at night. now i am over the 100 hour mark, and trying to fall asleep, and i took my last dosage of sub (which was actually closer to 1mg) about 7 hours or so ago, and right now, i am feeling something i havent felt for a while, since the last time i tried to withdraw...i cant stop moving in my bed, i am trying to fall asleep, but i cant stop moving. every ten seconds or so i will get "uncomfortable" and switch positions. Its weird though because i am exhausted, but i cant stay still long enough to fall asleep. I was prescribed chlonodine (10 mg) which i took one of about an hour ago, and it hasnt helped. What is going on? how long will it last? am i through the worst of it? what should i do? PLEASE RESPOND, It would mean a lot to me.
thank u


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:50 am 
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hey keepgoing88 sounds like your in a bit of trouble. You asked if you are about over it or how close to being over the wd's are you. Well from your past drug use that you have described your in for a long haul. The suboxone and the subutex that you have taken for the last four days is not going to help you with the wd's that you are about to encounter at all. You have not used the buprenorphine as part as a maintenance plan for sobriety, but simply as a substitute to keep the wd's away and it does a great job of that, but with out taking it for a more extended period of time and using a tapper method to achieve abstinence it will not help reduce the effects of withdraw. Since you work and go to school and want to continue to be able to do both I would suggest finding a suboxone Dr. as fast as you can and enroll in the program that is if you want to continue taking the suboxone? Well I hope everything works out for you and that you find something that helps you fight this horrendous battle of opiate addiction.

P.S. I know from personal experience that suboxone and school is a great combination and I really mean that so if you decide to go that route Im sure you will be fine.

~Joseph


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:36 am 
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Hi keepgoing and welcome. I'm sorry you're going through this right now. I agree with what Joseph said. Getting a sub doctor might very well be the best way for you to go. As for your withdrawals, I have no idea how long they will last. You didn't take the sub long enough, so the withdrawals that you feel are most likely from the OC's. Can you see your doctor to get some "comfort" meds to help you through it? Have you thought about your recovery plans? Do you have a good support system? Sorry - I didn't mean to bombard you with questions. Please hang in there and keep us posted on how you're doing. Again - welcome to the forum.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:32 am 
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I don't have a whole lot of anything new to add but did want to welcome you to the forum and let you know you are not alone. Unfortunately, we see this a lot on here. Most people do NOT want to be addicted and do not want to be addicts. They are just stuck in a cycle they can't seem to get out of. Your only option ISN'T just to quit your job and go to rehab however. As the others have said, you could choose to go on a suboxone program. You have been using long enough that you are an addict. I was addicted to OC for 2 years as well and couldn't get off of it on my own. I had tried many times and would even get through the physical withdrawals. But the depression and fatigure was too much to handle and I could never say no to the OC when offered. I couldn't keep doing that so I researched my options and decided suboxone was a great option for me. I owned a small business at the time. I couldn't really just leave and go to rehab leaving all the employees and work behind. My husband didn't know I was even addicted to them. So I went on sub.

What I learned AFTER I got on suboxone was that A) it had the ability to give me my life back and as you have noticed, to make you feel normal. B) I had most likely permanently altered my brain with the opiates C) statistically, I didn't really have much of a chance unless I went on a suboxone program D) Traditional 12-step programs have a very low rate of success (I had no idea).

It sounds like you may be on the verge of accepting that this is where you are likely at as well. Without suboxone, you are very likely to relapse. Statistically, suboxone programs are quite good and provide a greater chance of long term success than inpatient rehab or 12-step programs. If you are anything like me, you will be skeptical of becoming "addicted" to yet another substance. You do not get addicted to suboxone, but you do become dependent on it. You will not require increasing amounts in order for it to keep the withdrawals at bay. In fact, you will require decreasing amounts over time and it is much easier to taper off of should you choose. Many of us here have decided not to taper off of it and to remain on the program for a variety of reasons. Mine is because I have pain issues and KNOW I cannot go back to painkillers for the pain and suboxone helps with this.

If you want to at least consider it, you can go to the NAABT website (is that right guys?) or www.suboxone-directory.com to find a local doctor. You may have to call several before you find one that is accepting patients or that is a good fit. Otherwise, you can try to white knuckle it through the withdrawals and right now you are on day 1. In my experience, you have about 5 days of withdrawal and then you head into the depression and fatigure stage.

I wish you the best and hope you will stick around on the forum until you get things straightened out.

Take care!
Cherie

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:41 pm 
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I dont get it...I took the suboxone for the first three days, which i know from past experience are the worst. I have quit before once without them, however only lasted about 5 months clean. I just dont get why the suboxone is not going to stop the withdrawals, and arent i already through them? im about 6 hours away from 5 days clean, i feel ok this morning, it did take me about 6 hours to fall asleep, but i really dont understand why i am being told "i didnt use the suboxone correctly" and i should get on a "suboxone plan" the whole point of taking them was to get through the withdrawals and not take them long enough to get any ill effect from them. I am about to take my naltraxone pill and start that maintainence plan, and hopefully i can continue strong, but i dont get why i am being told that the withdrawals havent even happened yet, and the worst is yet to come...its day five, how does that make sense"?


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 Post subject: suboxone is long-lasting
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:07 pm 
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Hi, I too am sorry to hear about your difficulties. Suboxone is kind of a complicated medication--more so than I realized when my doc first prescribed it to me. I'm STILL learning about how it works, but the short answer to why withdrawals for you right now are probably delayed is that the effects of suboxone LAST a long time--like 72 hours. I agree with what others have said, it really might be best if you got a prescription for suboxone so you could work with a doctor either on suboxone maintenance or if you want to use it temporarily and taper off. If I try to explain all about how suboxone works I'll probably just end up confusing everyone more, so I'll just tell you that how suboxone works is discussed on a number of posts on this forum. I bet someone else will also respond to you soon with a better explanation too. One other thing though, if you can't get a suoboxone prescription soon--that doesn't mean you can't TRY to stay off the oxy anyway! I hope you can.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:12 pm 
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Oh My God, I certainly hope you get this before you take Naltrexone. If you do take it, you are going to be in a huge world of hurt - worse than you can ever begin to imagine. Naltrexone is going to block every bit of narcotic that you have in your system and slam you into the height of withdrawal. It will be a withdrawal from hell that you cannot even begin to imagine. DO NOT TAKE NALTREXONE.

For readers, this is a huge example of what can happen when addicts try to be their own physician. KeepGoing, I'm not trying to come down on you here. I honestly do want to try to help you. But to do that, you are going to have to get to a place where you understand that you can't control this anymore. You cannot treat yourself with drugs like Suboxone bought on the street and hope to beat addiction. Even with professional help relapse is all too common. When tried on your own, relapse is almost inevitable - as you have found out first hand. We have all been there. We are no better than you are. We have just gone through what you are going through and have now come to realize that addiction really can be combated and put into remission - it just won't happen the way you are trying to go about it.

Here is what has happened. It is a common misconception that Suboxone is somehow a separate or special medication different from opiates like Oxycontin. The fact is, Suboxone, just like Oxycontin, is also an opiate. All you have done is fed your body and brain with a different "brand" of opiate. Now it's not as simple as that and Suboxone is different from OC in many ways, but for our purposes right here, they are both opiates. What you are experiencing with tossing all over the bed is the beginnings of withdrawal. Your brain/body can't tell the difference between OC and Suboxone. Yes, OC is stronger, providers a bigger "high" and wears off faster (when crushed) than Sub will. But the Sub has fed your opiate receptors and kept you from going into withdrawal. Now that you are out of them, your body will start to go into the same withdrawal that you would have had you not taken the Sub. Think of it this way, had you taken a 10mg or 20mg OC whole, you would have likely gotten about the same effect as you did from 2mg of Sub.

It will take at least another 72 hours (at bare minimum) for the opiates to be out of your system. If you should take Naltrexone prior to the opiates being gone, you will go straight from the level of withdrawal you are currently at to 100% full-on maximum withdrawal. In fact, when physicians give you Naltrexone, they often will first give you a small amount of Narcan as a "trial" to make sure you are completely clean of opiates. Most times they won't even consider this until you have at least seven days without opiates.

So what should you do now? I can't tell you that. I can certainly suggest - and that would be try your best to get some professional help. Try calling the Here to Help hotline at 866-973-4373 or at www.heretohelpprogram.com. Try local addiction resources. Unfortunately, most Suboxone doctors have waiting times in order to get in to see them. There are many people here that will try to help you. It's just a fact, unfortunately, that you are either going to go back to using OC, get more Suboxone or suffer through withdrawal. What you do about that can vary greatly depending on all sorts of things.

I feel so bad for what you are going through. I hope you at least get this message and don't take Naltrexone. Keep reading and learning. This disease is far more complicated than most people realize - including many addicts. You can get help. You can get better. Many people here are living examples of this. Unfortunately, it's not as simple as taking a couple Suboxone pills and rarely as simple as doing it on your own without outside assistance. Please let us know how you are doing.


Last edited by donh on Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:15 pm 
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Hi KeepGoing88:

I'm sorry you are having to go through this. I know it is hard. I've done it more times than I care to think about.

I don't think you can actually expect to have an oxycontin habit like the one you described then take suboxone in relatively small doses for a few days and escape withdrawal from the oxy. It's just not realistic, and anyone who told you so is, in my opinion, misinformed.

Depending on the dose, it can take anywhere from 5 to 15 or even more days to get through withdrawal from full agonist opiates. There are a number of factors that come into play here, including, but not limited to, what you were taking, how much of it you were taking, how frequently you were taking it, how long you've been taking it, your body weight, your body chemistry, etc, etc, etc.

I think you are going to find that the majority of the people posting here will suggest that you should be under the care of a professional with your withdrawal and I strongly agree. That does not mean I do not feel compassion for you, because I do. I know how difficult it is to withdraw from opiates. I've been abusing them for over 30 years and have withdrawn, unfortunately, hundreds of times.

You are approaching, or maybe even upon, the best time to start a doctor-supervised suboxone regimen. I suggest you find a qualified doctor to help you. If you cannot do that, then you are going to want to strap yourself in for a tough ride. Get some Imodium, some good liquids (fruit juice, water, etc) and maybe try some Tylenol PM to help you sleep.

Based on the dose you were taking and the little I know, I'd say you're going to feel pretty bad for at least a few more days, maybe a week.

Can you find a doctor to prescribe suboxone for you?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:59 pm 
I'm afraid the he went ahead and took that naltrexone and he's probably too sick to check the forum right now.

Donh, that was a great explaination, and I hope that others stopping by this forum thinking that they can detox themselves from oxy with 2 suboxones will get a chance to read it before they make a big mistake.

Keepgoing - I hope you're OK. I hope you feel better soon and you can check back in with us.

Lilly


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:44 pm 
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Yep, excellent post from donh, as usual. 8) I think you're right though, I think he probably went ahead with that dose of Naltrexone :?

Well, once you feel up to it, try to come back and let us know how you're doing, maybe we can help you. Maybe not, but I think it's really up to YOU......from where I sit, treating yourself is a bad idea.....remember, your best thinking got you here, addicted to opiates, asking questions about what to do on a suboxone web site.

No offense intended at all, because I'm here too, but do you really think people like us are really qualified to treat ourselves?

I don't think so.

What I DO think is ONCE WE ARE UNDER THE CARE OF A DOCTOR, we can learn how to stay clean. But it takes time, and effort, and dedication.....and, most importantly, the assistance of a qualified physician.

Please, come back when you can and let us know how you're doing, ok? :)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:17 pm 
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Oh boy :( Good for you trying don. I hope he did okay.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:10 pm 
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I was in the same boat as you. In fact, my dealer would sell Suboxone as well so I would buy a bunch of OC's or Morphines and Hydrocodone and go on a binge for a while and when I couldn't find anything, I would start the Suboxone. While there are many other forums who recommend taking small amounts of Bupe spread out over a few days it is for a different reason. They're not looking for a long run recovery, they're just looking to avoid w/d's and get the subs out of there system as quick as possible so they can resume taking their drug of choice. None of us are going to force you to get on a Sub program but let it be known that the longer you choose to be on a bupe maintenance program, the better chance you have at succeeding. Oxy W/D's depending on your body chemistry, what your tolerance is and how long you have been taking them can range anywhere from 4 days to almost two weeks. If you were taking eighty MG's + a day, it's going to be on the longer end. Not to mention after that you will experience PAWS (post acute withdrawal syndrome) which can last for months, then after that the mental cravings which WILL last forever. I just made a post about having unusually intense cravings over the past few days and I have been on subs without a slip up for going on ten months. Some doctors have long waits for a sub program but if you call all of them and explain your story you might find an opening. I found a sub doctor that took me an hour after calling them. Two hours later I was out of his office and out of the pharmacy and feeling a thousand times better. None of us are trying to shove this down your throat but this is a group of people who have found success on Suboxone. Not only found success but in some cases, had our lives saved.

If you go to http://www.suboxone.com you will see a tab that says 'Find a doctor' on the right hand side. Click on that, enter your zip and a whole list of doctors will pop up. Be sure to search both tabs. One is labeled HTH Physician network and the other is labeled SAMSHA Certified Physicians. Also, if you are like me and many others and don't have insurance or can't afford it I can set you up with the details for the patient assistance program and your medication will be free.

Good Luck, I really mean it.


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