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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:00 am 
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First let me just mention that I am indeed still pregnant. I was feeling really good and positive about the MOTHER study and I am confident that my babe's chances for not having NAS are really good. Problem I now face is that even if she shows no symptoms and never scores above a 6, she'll still be kept in NICU for 7 days minimum. My doctor said this is the hospital's standard protocol for babes born on Methadone. The most recent study says that Bupe babies require much less hospital time than Meth babies- and that's IF they require treatment. I was expecting 3 - 5 days if all was well. I'm so disappointed, anxious and frustrated. I can't even think about having a good labor with all that's going to happen afterward. I doubt they'll even let her stay with me for the first 24 hours. I wish I could just have a home birth instead!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:35 am 
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Hi bupemom, it's good to "see" you again. I'm really sorry - finding that out must have really thrown you. Especially since you've done plenty of research and you know it simply may not be necessary. Obviously it's a matter of that particular hospital's policy.

What if you got a copy of that study (that shows bupe treatment has less symptoms than methadone), and hand carry it to the head of obstetrics (whoever makes the policy) to discuss it? You could make an appointment with her/him and sit down to try to discuss it. It may be a waste of time, but it also might be worth it. You just never know. It's just something that occurred to me.

I really do hope this works out for you. Best of luck to you and let us know how you're doing.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:10 pm 
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I really am so sorry to hear about what you are going through. Part of the problem - likely a large part of the problem - is healthcare is so screwed up from all angles in the first place. I say that from someone who has dealt with and worked in healthcare from the inside. The stories I could tell you would take weeks. I could discuss this topic for months. Far too many things are protocol driven and even worse - based on defensive medicine. It's not nearly as much about taking care of you or your baby as it is taking care of and protecting themselves. In great part, they are just not sure. They don't know, what Bup MIGHT DO, so they are going to go to the high side of things to protect themselves. I recently heard about a hospital who has banned all video cameras in the delivery room. They say it is to "protect the privacy of the month". That is total BULLSHIT. It is to protect themselves from a lawsuit after their medical error is captured on video. This "policy" with Bup is very close to the same thing.

One way or another, you need to get people on your side that both have medical experience with Bup and also have the ability to go toe to toe with the powers that be. I don't know what your financial situation is but I would have to wonder if you might be able to hire Dr. J to help you? I know that he does tele-medicine for a very reasonable fee. He might be able to speak on your behalf to your doctor and these hospital officials. For certain he can provide you with talking points and ideas. It might be well worth your time and money to schedule a session with him on the telephone.

I hate to have to suggest this next idea, but my other thought is to sign out the baby AMA - against medical advice. This could be fraught with trouble. I really don't know. It would be much more straightforward if it were just you. I have to figure that the recourse of the hospital could be to fight you. I would think that they would have to get this in front of a judge. After all, they are going to charge you for their services. How can they both force you to accept the care and also force you to pay for it all? In other words, force you to accept and pay for care you do not want, as is most likely not needed. I do know that their first response is always "If you sign out AMA, your insurance will not cover the bill." I am certain that in most cases, that is a bunch of BS. It is a scare tactic that is just simply not true. You will need to check with your insurance to be certain but there simply is no such clause in most healthcare policies that says if you sign out AMA they won't pay your bill - that is just BS.

As parents you still have rights. What if they said they wanted to do some other procedure - unrelated to drugs, that you were against? You would have the right to remove your child from their care. This may not be a fight you want to wage. However, I do want you to be aware that you still are the parents and even while prescribed Bup, you still do have rights. Don't let them treat you the same as the heroin junkie from the streets that received zero prenatal care and is still actively using. That is not the case here.

The squeaky wheel very often does get the greese. Healthcare is just one small step away from government. By that I mean, just as screwed up as pretty much any government agency is - think the DOT or the DNR or whatever - many hospitals are just a very short step away from being just as screwed up as government. Ask any HONEST healthcare provider and they will agree.

I hope that helps at least a little. I wish you the best. Please continue to let us know how it goes for you and your baby.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:03 pm 
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Thanks for your responses. Hi Hat! How's it going? I got so caught up with the end of my final undergraduate semester (AND MY 3.9 GPA-- BOOYAH!!!!!!) and the Holidays that I haven't been online much. But the last week or two of pregnancy leave a lot of free time... wonder what I would've done before the internet?

I have a copy of the latest study in my Go Bag :wink: Also I think I have the best possible people on my side. My sub doc is affiliated with the hospital, my perinatologist and the director of midwifery are behind me. Even my doula works with the director of Columbia University's addiction and substance abuse center. My sub doc had another patient who delivered at the same hospital with the same midwife and perinatologist just last week (she was actually due only 2 days before me), and she and I have been talking, so I have some idea of what to expect. I would have changed to Columbia Presbyterian hospital if I had realized that my hospital was so conservative, and their policies were so outdated. The neonatalogist I met with back in November said that withdrawal would need treatment, at least 2-3 weeks, and I knew this wasn't always the case. It is very frustrating. I know there's no way I can fight them either, because CPS would be involved. All I can really do is be there as much as possible, and try to get them to see that any unnecessary treatment is a waste... If our experience can lead to an improvement in care for another family, then it will be worth it. This is by far the scariest thing I've ever faced- way scarier than withdrawing from opiates. And it's nearly impossible not to feel guilty for choosing to stay on subutex. I will admit I took the easier path through all of this. Regardless of what my doctors said or didn't say, I was scared to withdrawal from subutex.

Once everything ends happily, and my baby has no NAS and needs no treatment, I will start my campaign against this antiquated standard of care that wastes taxpayer money, and causes insurance companies to raise premiums and cut benefits. Since the majority of babies being treated for NAS are receiving state aid, and I live in a state that's looking to cut medicaid, maybe someone will pay attention that way... :? MEH!

I was thinking... I could just go to the city hospital down the street, and not tell them about my medical history... just stay home until I am 9cm dilated and my head turns around backwards... deliver in the ER or whatever... but that would be a bad idea, right?


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 Post subject: This is so messed up
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:06 pm 
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What you're going through makes me do damn angry!!! It's just wrong and unfair and evil.

You know I had a baby on Sub. Why didn't they require her to stay in the NICU? She stayed with me! Why are these people picking in you?! I want to beat them up.

As far as delivering and not telling them.....I do not think you're all that serious, but IMO, you kind of need to tell them just in case your baby has any troubles (which wouldn't be the end of the world) they would know what was going on and be able to make her as comfy as possible. Please don't forget what a great mom you already are!! I'm so impressed with you, with how driven you are, with how much you've educated yourself. No one could possibly be doing a better job. Ugh! I'm just so exited for when you have your beautiful baby home with you and all this crap is behind you.

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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