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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:57 pm 
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Hey! This is my first post here. I have been on Sub a long time, since late 2007. Too long, and I'm trying to get off probably faster than I should, mostly because I want to get off before my insurance runs out in a couple of months. I'm right around 3 mgs a day.

Since my insurance is running out, I'm rushing to get a bunch of health stuff done, like my wisdom teeth surgery, which is schedules for this Friday. Now, twice in the past few years on Suboxone I've had surgerys, where I have stopped taking Sub a few days before, so that I was in WDs after the surgery, where the pain meds would work. This wasn't to get high, in fact, I hated the feeling of Vicodin again, but these were serious surgeries and there was a lot of pain.

I'm wondering if anyone has had their wisdom teeth yanked. Should I do the same with this? I have a pretty high tolerance, so I was considering just staying on 3 mgs a day and taking 800 mg Ibuprofen after the surgery, in hopes that I wont need anything more than that.

I'm not worried about getting hooked on any meds they might give me, but I just would prefer to not have to mess up my taper. Another option my doctor told me is to maybe up the dose of Sub back to 8 mg a day for one or two days after the surgery. He said that could have some pain alleviating qualities? Any experience would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you and good luck to any and all, high or low!

- Mike


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:04 pm 
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One more thing, I have a pretty high pain tolerance, I do MMA and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu several times a day. I know physical activity is very important to keep endorphins going.

What is the highest mg per day that anyone would consider completely stopping on? Is 3 mg a day way too much of a jump? I have the luxury of being able to set aside about 14 days this July to just be sick and go through the withdrawals. I guess it would be smart to just continue to taper as aggressively as I can stand it until I have those days?

I know the key to low WDs and less pain/anxiety is a slow, long, gradual taper, but as I said...I probably will lose my health insurance around August, so as low as I can get around mid-July is what I'm shooting for.

I jumped from 8 to 4 mgs without much problem. Some yawning and stiffness for a few days, but then it was fine. I held that at 2 weeks and now I'm down to 3 mgs a day with no unpleasent side effects. Still, I've heard going from 2 or 1 to zero is the hardest.

Thanks again for any help!


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:23 pm 
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Ive had 18 molars pulled in the last two months.


9 on bottom,
then 6 weeks later 9 on top.


the tops hurt worse than bottom.

but i did it without ANYthing else, but suboxone and ibprofen/tylenol

I took motrin and tylenol every 4 hrs on the dot, about 5 days after. the worst is the first 2 days for bottoms, the first 5 days for tops.

any other questions, feel free to ask..

I got the teeth pulled on thursday after noon both times, had friday off, both times. when I got the bottoms done, i actually worked that saturday. the tops, I didnt work til monday.

I work construction too, very physical job. And I did okay. actually it was easier at work, cuz i was distracted :D

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:26 pm 
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I guess I should have said, Im getting ready for dentures, thats why Ive had so many pulled.

Most of them were broken at the gumline, so they had to slice down my gums, the same way they do for wisdom teeth.

Ive got 5 teeth on the bottom, that are in the center, that are staying, and I'll have a partial denture.

the top, I have my front two teeth, and the two next to it, I go in, in about a month, to get those pulled, and I'll have my full top denture put on right then.


just wanted to explain that :D

Im 30, and all sorts of drugs (in my opinion) have really F-d my teeth up.

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anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 6:19 am 
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Hi and welcome. You could up your dose of sub to get more pain control, but that would mess up your taper. As for how low to go, many people go way down into the micrograms. That would mean you'd have a LONG way to go, more than the time you have. 3 mg is a very high dose to jump from. What you could do to get lower, is to wait to take your next dose until you really need it and take the very very least amount you need to feel okay. Then lower from there. Just an idea.

Good luck with your surgery and your taper.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:08 am 
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White Mike,

I just wanted to add that I know you are losing your insurance, but if you find that you can't taper all the way off by then, if you get down to just 1mg, you would only need four 8mg strips or pills for one month, which would cost only around 30 bucks. And if you could get down lower, it would be even cheaper. Maybe you could just start paying cash for your subs for a little while if you find it too hard to jump. I know the doctor appt costs even more than that, so if you can't afford it, maybe you could just save some subs from your last Rx and use those to wean down lower than 3mg.

Just thought I'd mention that. Welcome to the forum!


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Taurus wrote:
White Mike,

I just wanted to add that I know you are losing your insurance, but if you find that you can't taper all the way off by then, if you get down to just 1mg, you would only need four 8mg strips or pills for one month, which would cost only around 30 bucks. And if you could get down lower, it would be even cheaper. Maybe you could just start paying cash for your subs for a little while if you find it too hard to jump. I know the doctor appt costs even more than that, so if you can't afford it, maybe you could just save some subs from your last Rx and use those to wean down lower than 3mg.

Just thought I'd mention that. Welcome to the forum!


I could swing that. From 3 mgs, what is a realistic taper with minimal withdrawals if I take my time with it? More than 6 months?

I've been trying to drops 1 mg every 2 weeks which is pretty aggressive to drop but hasn't been an issue yet. I can't even imagine how I could get below 1 mg. At that point, wouldn't it be hard to break them up? And also, isn't it basically out of your body once you're that low anyways?

Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:22 am 
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White Mike wrote:
I could swing that. From 3 mgs, what is a realistic taper with minimal withdrawals if I take my time with it? More than 6 months?


I'm not sure how long it would take you to taper since it is different for everyone. If you haven't already, you might want to go browse the "Stopping Suboxone" section. There are a lot of threads there of people who have recorded their progress throughout their taper. That could give you some idea of how long it might take you.

White Mike wrote:
I've been trying to drops 1 mg every 2 weeks which is pretty aggressive to drop but hasn't been an issue yet. I can't even imagine how I could get below 1 mg. At that point, wouldn't it be hard to break them up? And also, isn't it basically out of your body once you're that low anyways?


Your might need to start tapering a little slower now that you are down to a pretty low dose. You might have to cut back less than 1mg each time. Some people only cut back a quarter of a mg, or even less, when they get down to really small doses. I think I read that Dr. Junig recommended cutting back 10% each time, and then waiting for your body to adjust to that before you cut back again. It is up to you and how your body reacts.

As for breaking them up...are you on the tablets or the films? If you're on the tabs, you might want to ask your doctor to prescribe you the films for the end of your taper because they are pretty easy to cut into small squares, down to 1mg or even 1/2mg. You can even get the 2mg films for the very end, which would allow you to easily cut them into 1/4mg or 1/8mg squares.

I've never taken the tabs, so I don't know how easy they are to cut down that small. But we do have some members who have done a liquid taper where they add the pills to a certain amount of water, and then measure out their dose each day from that mixture, ensuring a more accurate dose. I can find you a couple links if you haven't found those threads already.

Another reason to switch to the films (if you are on the tabs), is because I know you are concerned about paying for your subs since you are losing your insurance. You can go to www.suboxone.com and print out the $50 off coupon (which is only good for the films) and your Rx would actually be free if you were down to 1mg/day, since you would only need 4 films. If you find that you can only get down to 2mg/day right now, it would only cost about $10 for 8 films.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:35 am 
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Here are a couple links regarding the liquid taper method.

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=296&highlight=

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6172


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:24 am 
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Taurus wrote:
White Mike wrote:
I could swing that. From 3 mgs, what is a realistic taper with minimal withdrawals if I take my time with it? More than 6 months?


I'm not sure how long it would take you to taper since it is different for everyone. If you haven't already, you might want to go browse the "Stopping Suboxone" section. There are a lot of threads there of people who have recorded their progress throughout their taper. That could give you some idea of how long it might take you.

White Mike wrote:
I've been trying to drops 1 mg every 2 weeks which is pretty aggressive to drop but hasn't been an issue yet. I can't even imagine how I could get below 1 mg. At that point, wouldn't it be hard to break them up? And also, isn't it basically out of your body once you're that low anyways?


Your might need to start tapering a little slower now that you are down to a pretty low dose. You might have to cut back less than 1mg each time. Some people only cut back a quarter of a mg, or even less, when they get down to really small doses. I think I read that Dr. Junig recommended cutting back 10% each time, and then waiting for your body to adjust to that before you cut back again. It is up to you and how your body reacts.

As for breaking them up...are you on the tablets or the films? If you're on the tabs, you might want to ask your doctor to prescribe you the films for the end of your taper because they are pretty easy to cut into small squares, down to 1mg or even 1/2mg. You can even get the 2mg films for the very end, which would allow you to easily cut them into 1/4mg or 1/8mg squares.

I've never taken the tabs, so I don't know how easy they are to cut down that small. But we do have some members who have done a liquid taper where they add the pills to a certain amount of water, and then measure out their dose each day from that mixture, ensuring a more accurate dose. I can find you a couple links if you haven't found those threads already.

Another reason to switch to the films (if you are on the tabs), is because I know you are concerned about paying for your subs since you are losing your insurance. You can go to and print out the $50 off coupon (which is only good for the films) and your Rx would actually be free if you were down to 1mg/day, since you would only need 4 films. If you find that you can only get down to 2mg/day right now, it would only cost about $10 for 8 films.


Thank you!!!

So basically it's stupid to try and jump off from 3 or 2 mgs. I don't really care about the intensity of the sickness, I just don't want it to last more than a couple of weeks. I guess it's like...when you get addicted in the first place it's because you're impatient and want things the easy way, right here right now. And now, I want to be off the medicine, which IS a healthy thing to want...but I guess I'm catching myself wanting to be off of it, "right here right now", and I'm learning I will need to be thorough and diligent in tapering. I thought I'd suck it up and be sick but from what I'm reading if I try that now I could be sick for a month or more, which obviously sounds no bueno.

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:38 am 
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To be quite honest with you, suboxone's acute w/d are known to last a bit longer than full agonist w/d, mostly, I believe, because of the long half-life. So, jumping from 2-3 mg you will likely suffer for longer than you expect to. I'd suggest tapering down as low as you possibly can before stopping. A good taper saves you not from just the acute w/d but should also help you in the way of PAWS later down the road.

Good luck!

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 1:15 pm 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
To be quite honest with you, suboxone's acute w/d are known to last a bit longer than full agonist w/d, mostly, I believe, because of the long half-life. So, jumping from 2-3 mg you will likely suffer for longer than you expect to. I'd suggest tapering down as low as you possibly can before stopping. A good taper saves you not from just the acute w/d but should also help you in the way of PAWS later down the road.

Good luck!


PAWS?


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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 1:53 pm 
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PAWS is "Post-Acute Withdrawal Syndrome". Here's a link to a thread that discusses both acute and post acute. Hope this helps.

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5941

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 2:45 am 
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I've had mine pulled while on subs. I would stick to your taper as well as just take ibuprofen. The pain isn't anything you cannot handle. Good luck and if all fails take the Vic's going back to 8 mgs of subs might be harder to come back down again. Let us know how it goes!


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