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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:23 am 
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I've been taking pain pills on and off for years. Last year I tried heroin and let myself get hooked. I never took it every day but like everyone else I started on weekends, then progressed from there (never injected). I got myself into a lot of financial and relasionship trouble until the other week I told my girlfriend ,who I live with and supports me, my whole situation. Once I told her I stopped cold turkey and got up to about a week. I was definitly getting better but slipped up and talked to my "friend". I gave in and got myself another 50 bucks worth and did that over the next two days. On the 3rd day I got one last $10 bag and a little suboxone to hopefully help the withdrawls (he gave me one 8mg pill and one 2mg). I've never been that bad when coming off of something (never got bad enough to throw up) but it was Easter the next day and I wanted to feel ok but not by doing more heroin. 24 hours after my last line of H i took the 2mg sub. It took all of the withdrawl away. The next day I took another 2mg. On the 3rd (which was today) I took a bit less than 2mg and plan on taking about 1mg tomorrow. I still have 4mg of sub left which I don't plan on taking. What am I in for after only taking it for a total of 4 days or so? I know the heroin will be out of my system tomorrow but I've been reading so many bad posts about coming off of suboxone I want to know if I just prolonged my heroin withdrawl or will it work the way I did it? I know compared to most others on here my habit wasn't that bad but I still worry. If anyone could respond and give me an idea what I'm in for the next few days I'd greatly appreciate it.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:54 am 
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You might experience some PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome) from the years of opiate abuse but you wont experience any withdrawal from the Suboxone. I am not judging or being rude but it seems like the reason you are saving 4 MG as a crutch after the next time you use again. I did it too, believe me. One of the last time I used I remember I bought a about a week's worth of 100MG Morphine and a handful of subutexts to come down on. It did no good, after all of the subs are gone you're going to fall right back into the trap. Subs can help short term but for the most part they're just a crutch used to avoid withdrawals. I really recommend you find a sub doctor in your area and get some help to stay clean for the permanent.

Good luck with your situation,
Ryan


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:14 am 
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Thanks for the response. I'm really hoping I don't need the rest of the small amount of subs I have left sometime in the future. I cut all of my ties with the only person I know that I can get H from and have even given control of my money over to my girlfriend so I can't screw up again. At least not any time in the near future. As long as your right though it is really nice to know I won't have any bad withdrawl symptoms other than the paws which I expected. I was just afraid I was making my symptoms worse in the long run by taking those for the withdrawl I would have had from stopping H cold turkey again.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:20 am 
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I am having a hard time understanding how long you have been on heroin and pills prior to taking the sub. How many days straight or tell me this....how many days in the past 4 weeks have you used heroin or pills NOT including suboxone?

Point being, if you are going to go through withdrawal from heroin if you didn't have the suboxone, then I am pretty sure you are going to go through withdrawal with the suboxone.

BUT...if you wouldn't be in withdrawal from the heroin, I certainly don't think this small amount of suboxone is going to cause you to go into withdrawal either.


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 Post subject: re.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:52 am 
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I've used pills and H for a while. For about the last 3 months I was using probalby 4 out of 7 days then spent the other 3 days in bed sick. About 2 weeks ago I stopped cold turkey and was sick for around 4 days and still felt a little shitty for the next 2. I was finally starting to feel better then I used again for almost 3 days. A day later I took the subs. I've felt a bit tired but no withdrawl at all with them. Tonight will be 4th night I take any sub. Then I plan on stopping because all of the heroin should be out of my body by then. As long as I don't have any withdrawl from the subs I don't think I'll still feel sick from the heroin. I know they aren't supposed to be used that way but I did and am just curious if it will work how I planned. I don't plan on going back to anything but didn't plan on getting hooked in the first place. Thanks for any help


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:09 pm 
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jbkorn: Yours seems to be a common misconception with withdrawal from full opiates versus from Bup. A lot of people seem to think (incorrectly) that if they take Bup when they start to go into withdrawal from their drug of choice (DOC) that the Bup will get them through the withdrawal and all will be good. If all is not good, they assume (incorrectly) that they are now withdrawing from the Bup or are addicted to it. The thing is, to your brain, opiate receptor stimulation is opiate receptor stimulation. Your brain really doesn't care whether it’s coming from heroin, oxy, tramadol or Suboxone. It's all the same to your brain. For all your brain knows, you just got some weaker H over the last few days - when it's really Bup.

If you are dependent or addicted to opiates, you are dependent or addiction to opiates. Plain and simple. That includes all opiates - full or partial. Think of it this way, as far as your body and brain and concerned, all you did is use a weaker opiates these past couple of days.

As for whether or not you are going to be in withdrawal, is not something I, or anyone else here, can tell you. All we can do is guess. If you are past the threshold, the answer is yes. If you had been clean enough for long enough, you may get by. The bottom line is, you have an opiate addiction. That will never go away. It is with you for the rest of your life. You are going to need help with this addiction because getting past the initial withdrawals is only the first step. Once the physical withdrawals stop, the mental withdrawals kick in full force. That is what caused you to relapse a week ago. That cycle is going to be repeated over and over again until you step in and put a stop to it. Pretty much everyone needs help to do that. It is rare that you can stop on your own. Suboxone is a great tool to wean off opiates. It's an even better tool to STAY OFF of opiates.

I know this may be a somewhat new concept to you and I hate to be the one that tells you that it's not going to be easy. That switch in your brain has been turned on and it's a one-way switch. It doesn't turn off again. There will be others here that can jump in and expand on what I have just started to lay out. If you spend some time looking around, you can also find hundreds of other people just like you. You are now one of us. We all think we are special and different and our case is not like everyone else's but unfortunately if we think that, we are just fooling ourselves.

There is help available. You can get your addiction into remission. However, you'll need some help to do that. Please stick around and look around in order to get some of that help.


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 Post subject: RE.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:30 pm 
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If I did go into withdrawl in my situation would it be as bad as cold turkey heroin withdrawl? My habit was never that bad and the main reason I'm asking is because I start a new job next week and wanted to know if I'll be ok for that. I can deal with going feeling like shit from the paws but just not full blown heroin withdrawl. Will it least make it easier that I've been taking the subs for these past few days? I plan on getting into some type of program once I have insurance but I'm unemployed now and really need this job.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:48 pm 
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I am like you because I don't have a long history of use and I used subutex for six days and I have stopped, so far so good, but the anxiety is kicking in and I look for it to be around till at least Saturday and know that day 3 will be the text day :(


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:53 pm 
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jbkorn02,

Physically you should be fine but mentally is a whole different story. In one post you said you used 4 days out of the week and the other 3 you spent sick in bed, then in another post you said you're habit is not that bad. If you get to the point where are you taking a drug just not to be sick then you have more than "habit", you have an addiction. If you'd like I could give you information on the Patience Assistance program which will give you Suboxone free, the only fee will be the doctor's visit. Being effected by drugs seven days a week is full blown addiction, there is no way around that. I'm not pointing the finger or trying to criticize you, believe me. I'm just trying to help you since all of us have been in that your boat before.

Also, how long is a "while?"


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:51 am 
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Kris, let me know how you start to feel if you stay on the board over the next few days. I'll be a few days behind you so It'll help knowing what to expect.

mayun, I was definitely not taking the drug only not to get sick. I enjoyed it very much every time I did it. Around a year and a half since the first time I touched it. Didn't do it more than once a week til a year ago. Then last July I lost my job over an unrelated issue and with all of the free time on my hands and just meeting someone who lived close by who could get me whatever I wanted (I cut ties with him and don't even have his number anymore). Since I lost my job I did it more and more. Out of the 3 months I said I only stayed in bed i was exaggerating a bit but definitly felt like staying in bed. I did lie to my girlfriend constantly telling her i was coming down with something. I was only really able to just lay in bed without pretending I was feeling ok for the last few weeks since I told her the truth. I finally have a chance to work again starting in a couple weeks (just have to pass a background check which i have no problem with, and a drug screen but those are easy to cheat). I go Thursday at ten for that. I think that working full time again will help me get back to enjoying things other than doing heroin. With my girlfriend controlling my money and no connections I don't think I'll have that much of a problem just coming home from work, and being happy with smoking a bit of pot and taking my prescribed xanax which I've been on for ten years and don't plan on quitting. Until I started messing with heroin I was happy with a lot of things and had hobbies other than just nodding off. I know there's a good chance one day I'll relapse and regret it again. If that happens I may consider some kind of treatment. But for now I just want to stay off of it, be happy, and take it day by day.


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 Post subject: Hey
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:45 pm 
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This is Kris:

This is day four for me and day five will be at 7am in the morning. I got RLS so I didn't sleep well last night or the night before - even with the seroquel - I had to take a bit more of the seroquel to knock me out so I could sleep - night time seems ok but the RLS is so annoying. My anxiety peeked to at about 12pm and has last for a few hours - it is now almost 4pm and the anxiety is not as bad as it was - I also take neurtion(sp) for my anxiety so that really helps but I am only allowed 2 pills a day so I have to use them when I really need them and they work great - both are meds for my bipolar - baby is fine and still kicking and no stomack pains - so on day four I am haveing anxiety and RLS - that is it, I will post tomorrow on what day 5 is like and how my night went ok :) Hang in there we can both do this - I think it is easier because we are not long term users.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:17 pm 
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Oh yes and my body is now becoming sore, my back is super sore but my anxiety for right now at 4pm is gone!!!! So I hope the worst has pasted, it is hard to come to work, take care of my children, be pregnant, deal with court issues with one of my child father, and issues with another that won't go to school - with all this I am trying to stop, but I have to pray that God keep me strong and make me happy once again.

So

Anxiety
Sore
RLS

This is what I have had on my fourth day with now subutex


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:31 pm 
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Kris: Just a quick note to say thank you so much for continuing to regularly post your experience with going off of Bup. While you are not the first person here to do this, you are still one of only a few. I can tell you that your experience is extremely interesting and useful to me and many others here. While I'm not even close to being ready to consider stopping my Suboxone now, I would imagine at some point in the future I will be. When that time comes, I hopefully will have the experience of people like you with which to draw from. So many people only provide a couple of posts or simply drop off the board - never to be heard from again. The more people like yourself that provide detailed information about your experience, the better it is for everyone. You taking the time to post is really helpful - perhaps much more than you ever would have thought. I hope that, in return, you are getting valuable information and insight as well. Best of luck to you over the next few days and weeks.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:31 pm 
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I am at 103hrs since my last use, well the anxiety is not as back but man my legs they feel crazy like they need to move. I never have expericed this before it is truely crazy. I hope to sleep ok tonite. I will post in the morning and let everyone know what is goingon, I will post on my post.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:11 pm 
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well day five was a struggle and without my other meds i would have caved. My bipolar med keep me just right there on the line and if I didn't have neurtion i would have more then likely caved and I almost did. I held a crumb in my hand, I put it up to my mouth and then threw it on the ground. I am going to try to run in the morning, well do what I can cause I am preggo, that will help with the mood. i hope i am happy in the morning

So on day Five
Anxiety was bad
Very sore


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