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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:56 pm 
I just wanted to ask does anyone here have any experience with placing film strips on the roof of their mouths? I was just wondering because of the excessive saliva washing it away when its under the tongue so in theory if the roof of the mouth was as "porous" as under the tongue you could get complete absorbtion without any spit washing it away. It just seems like it wouldnt be as good because there is such a thin layer of skin on the roof of your mouth but if it was as good that would be awesome.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:33 pm 
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Yes-- the roof of the mouth will absorb buprenorphine as well as other surfaces of the mouth. The issue isn't 'porosity', but rather has to do with the solubility of molecules in water vs oil. The surfaces in the mouth consist of tissue referred to as 'mucous membranes'. This type of tissue consists of cells lined up with each other, and underneath the cells are tiny capillaries. Molecules that can dissolve through fat or oils-- lipid soluble molecules like buprenorphine-- will dissolve through the surface cells, since their membranes are made up of fats. The molecules then pass through those surface cells, and into the capillaries. Water soluble molecules like naloxone will NOT pass through the fatty cell membranes, and so it cannot get to the capillaries and into the body.

Mucous membranes line all of the oral surfaces. The fact that it is stretch tight over the roof of the mouth vs sitting loosely against the soft tissue under the tongue does not affect absorption. One thing that DOES affect absorption is that the salivary glands release saliva right under the tongue; if buprenorphine is placed there, the saliva may rinse it away and dilute it so that it doesn't get stuck to the surfaces and absorbed.

I think that the best way to favor absorption is to crush a tablet in a dry mouth, then spread the dissolved, concentrated buprenorphine around over ALL of the surfaces within the mouth for about ten minutes. Afterward, don't rinse any surfaces for a good ten minutes, so that it can get soaked in.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:27 pm 
Whats up!! Im sure you remember that method i told you i use right? Thats where i absorb most of the med is into the roof of my mouth. It works great that way for me!!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:26 pm 
Thanks doc I was hoping that you would see this thread, very pleased you were the first to respond to my question with an answer. Yea lifesaver I remember you telling me that method. Im gonna try this tomorrow and put the strip on top of my tongue and paint it all over the roof of my mouth and then some on the inside of my cheeks. Another method I like is putting it on top of my tongue and spreading it around in between my lip and front teeth where you would put chewing tobacco, if you pull your lip down in front of the mirror you can see lots of veins running through there the only thing I dont like about it tho is that when my mouth waters to much its real hard for me to keep it in my mouth without some leaking a little out the corners of my mouth and Im afraid im losing some.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:32 pm 
I understand the idea behind painting everywhere making it better but the problem i have is being able to do so without some of it getting all over my teeth and thus wasted since it would eventualy just get washed off. With bupe I can never realy tell which way is more effective vs another since you dont feel any effect, so as long as Im not feeling withdrawal I know its working. I take trazodone for sleep and the one advantage of that is trazodone causes cotton my mouth for me so when i dose an hour or two after taking the trazodone I barely produce any saliva and the solution of bupe stays concentrated


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:10 am 
I also use the inner parts of my lips. This may sound crazy but when i spread all mine out, i keep my tongue moving around as if im constantly smacking and any bit of saliva that builds up i just keep spreading it around with my tongue. Thats what i mean by constantly smacking. Just keep moving your tongue around to keep the spit from building up. It works like a charm for me everytime.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:45 am 
If you keep moving your tongue around spreading the saliva that builds up, it will actually keep it from building up into a puddle.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:13 pm 
Yea I know what you mean ive done that before but Im always thinking by swishing it around with my tongue like that its washing off the bupe thats latched on and absorbing. Just now I just tried putting the strip on my tongue and spreading it all over the inside of my cheek and top of my mouth and I will say I think its probably better that way because usualy when I swallow the saliva its got a bitter flavor to it but this time it just tasted like plain saliva so im guessin most of the bupe is still stuck and absorbing which is good.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:04 am 
Well the verdict is that this method of spreading it on top of my mouth and on the inside of my cheeks and lips has worked out very well. Usualy I dont feel very maintained later on at night and somewhat antsy but right now I feel just as well as I do about an hour after I take my sub. I feel like I will easily fall asleep tonight and dont feel any negative feelings. I dont think I will ever dose under the tongue again. Another thing was I could still taste the bitter bupe taste all over my cheeks/roof of mouth a good 30 minutes after swallowing which must mean that all of the bupe was still hanging on to the mucous membranes giving it more than enough time to absorb. Under the tongue sucks, I get such a frustrated feeling when I toss my dose under my tongue and not even 30 seconds later my mouth is full of water, I just know a significant amount has to be getting washed away and wasted when it hasnt even had 2 minutes to absorb before the flood of saliva starts. This is the one and only thing I like better about the film (I still prefer tablets) that you can stick it to the top of your tongue and paint it around easy, with tablets its harder to move that solution around all over your mouth with your tongue without it getting all over your teeth.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:05 pm 
Thats awesome that it that you found a good method that works for you!! I also havent used the under the tongue method ever since i started doing it with my method. You were talking about when you swallowed it tasted like saliva, i dont ever have to swallow anything for about an hour. Now, i do swallow but their is a certain way you can swallow without swallowing the saliva. This may sound retarted but, for about an hour after i've taken the med, i somewhat swallow almost as if my throat is closed. In other words, i swallow so that my throat is closed off from the saliva going down it. But, like i said by me moving my tongue around so much and continuely spreading and painting basically until the taste of med is gone, i dont ever have any saliva to swallow. My mouth completely drys out after about 45 minutes to an hour. As i've said, the method i do and the way i keep the saliva from building up etc. etc. is really only possible for someone to understand if i was to actually show you. Unless any of my description of the method makes more sense than i think lol. The biggest benefit of my method is, i never even have a mouth full of saliva the whole time its in the mouth. I know that may seem hard to believe but its true. Its took a lot of times and practice to get it down pat but i have and it works like a charm. Works better than it ever has. No cravings and 100% relief. Oh, and i also continuously breathe in and out so the air can dry the inside of my mouth and make the stuff stick better. Thats another way i keep saliva from building up. Right after i dose, i probably do the breathing thing every 5 to 10 minutes until my mouth stops salivating. Somehow someway moving my tongue around spreading the saliva keeps it from puddling up. When im done like about an hour after, their is nothing to swallow and i havent swallowed any saliva or anything the whole time in that hour. So, im absorbing ever possible bit of the tablet. What it does from their i dont know but i do know that i never swallow not one bit of the med. Anyways, glad you found something that works for you!!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:15 pm 
Oh yea, you were talking about being afaid of it being washed off the surface's of your mouth. Think about it like this, as long as you can figure out a way to swallow afterwards without swallowing the med and saliva, keep breathing in air etc etc the med is gonna stick wether it sticks to the back of your throat or the roof of your mouth. And by moving your tongue constantly, their is no saliva by the time its done absorbing. In fact, the salvia that builds will have dryed out also because it didnt puddle up. I may just be really lucky or something but i highly doubt it because the reason i do the method i do is my mouth would be full of saliva within 5 minutes of putting it under my tongue.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:38 pm 
Thats funny I do that breathing thing too to keep my mouth drier, I barely open my mouth and just inhale a bit and it does help. And yea I dont swallow the saliva when Im dissolving it I just meant when im finaly tired of holding it in my mouth i swallow it. I hold everything in my mouth for a minimum of 30 minutes and then swallow the saliva or sometimes I wait a little longer. Im getting more out of it but i still am getting the mental cravings, I still need to be on a higher dose but for now this will have to do


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:40 pm 
Yea i definitely do the breathing thing lol. I dont know what it is cuz i know their isnt anything special about the way my mouth salivates. When i put it under my tongue it would be full of saliva in minutes. Now when i take it the way i do, after i've spread it all out i never get a mouth full of saliva. Not even a puddle. Like, little bitty bits of saliva start to fill up but i just keep my tongue movin and it never fills up. Some of the med, like the med you were saying you didnt want to be washed off the surface, it may end up being in the saliva but the breathin thing makes it dry and stick to the surface of my mouth. I can talk the whole time i take the med. Not one second am i not able to talk so i think their is just a slightly different step or something that im doing. I mean, its mostly me continously moving my tongue but still, i dont even have saliva to swallow when its done because it drys up. I actually get cotton mouth about 45 minutes to an hour after taking it because it all dry's in my mouth instead of swallowing it. Thats why i like this method over any of the methods i've seen or tried. Its a guaranteed way to absorb the most possible every single time. The real benefit that comes with that is, you know you get the same accurate dose every time you take it. Either way, its good that you at least got something figured out that will hold you over much better than before!!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:04 pm 
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so all the bs aside bewteen us sub how are you takeing your dose now? cause i have the same problem mouth waters like crazy within minutes?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:33 pm 
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I put my strip between my gum and my bottom lip like you would a pinch of tobacco and it stays there and isn't affected by saliva. It takes a little bit longer that way cuz it's not getting washed away but I can def feel a difference in absorption and I'm able to take less. I was taking 16-20 mgs and now I'm down to 8 -12mgs.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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