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 Post subject: WHY IS THIS HAPPENING
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:23 pm 
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Ok so I starred a new thread on my busted ass phone because I smashed my laptop into about 5 pieces and then as that wasn't enough I threw my new smart phone against the wall and busted the screen so its a little hard to tell if I'm typing the correct spelling on my words so bare with me lol...I kinda lost it a little the last few days as if its hard to tell by the intro..although its really really hard for me to admit what's going on I really need some support..I have been really having a hard time for a couple days thinking about getting high..there I said it...its all I can think about and I feel horrible for thinking about it...I feel hella sad and anxious because I obviously loved getting high and I feel lost and empty I just want so bad to make that call and that alone pissed me off enough to smash stuff..as of this post I Have NOT RELAPSE but I can't figure out how I could be doing so well and why I can't quit thinking about doing this to myself again..Why would I all of the sudden start thinking about it?? Cravings so freakin strong I was so close to suicide when I quit its not even funny and so why the hell would I want to do that shit again?? Should I tell my doctor?? Should I up my dose ?? Am I just doomed ?? I feel like I'm just repeating myself over and over so I am gonna stop there because I really just can't find the words for what I'm going through


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:57 pm 
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Always,
This is happening because you are new, your in early recovery and you need more support from somewhere
They have a saying in NA: Early Recovery is a BITCH. And it can be. This is all new to you and your brain. This is why it is so important to have your dose in the right place.
Your just Doomed Always. Cravings do come, and its great that you havnt called or picked up yet. Your dose may need to come up. From what id just read you may need more. Imo. Call your dr in the morning and talk with them. Are you getting any kind of addiction counseling? Hit a 12 step meeting ,hell thats even free. It is very hard to just take Suboxone and think our addiction will all go away man,.
The fact that your Now reaching out tells me you Do Not want to go back to that old life. I dont remember the dose you are now on, but Sub is supposed to keep cravings and withdraw in check. Talk to your Dr again.

The mental part of all this is real and change is hard. Us Opiate addicts can have a ruff start. But you can make it Always.
Sorry your suffering right now, but remember that Suboxone does have a blocking effect and useing over top if it can be dangerous too. Please be kind to yourself, think about where your use took you . Your here now. You can make it.



Razor


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:58 am 
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Hey Always :)

I also think u should ask ur Dr about ur dose, maybe it needs adjusted. Also there's things that when us addicts are new in recovery that we also have to adjust to besides just the using part. Things like the routine of when we used. The routine of how we obtained our drugs, the ppl we were used to seeing, even the times of day we knew a dose was coming. It took me awhile to get used to the calm of not using anymore. Maybe that's got something to do with how ur feeling. The chase of it all coming to end makes us think...well now what? And that is so absolutely normal always. We all go through that. But I promise u that it does fade. Times like this is when u stop and really start thinking about how bad that life really is and what reasons u got on subs in the first place. This all takes time getting used to. See a counselor more if u need to, find something to occupy ur time, and don't lose sight of why u were tired of living life the way u used to. In rehab they told me...feelings aren't fact and it will pass. I always remember that and they do pass and then u can be really proud of urself for sticking it out and fighting for urself. And don't go around ppl that use. Stay away from anyone who is using cause not many of us cant avoid that pressure and temptation.

This will pass I promise. Talk to ur Dr asap, that's the most important thing I think u should do right now. Please keep us posted, u have tons of support here.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:27 am 
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Hi always,

I agree with the others that your dose may need to be adjusted. Seeing your doctor would be a good place to start in my opinion. Seeing a counselor as Jenn suggested might also be a good choice.

You might try making a list of all the good things recovery brings you, and another list of what using/abusing drugs will do. Carry that list with you and whenever you have those horrible cravings get out your list and read it over no matter where you happen to be. If your list of all the harm using brings is like my list that will hopefully change your mind and end the cravings thoughts pretty quickly!

I hope it's gets better for you soon. I know that feeling so well, and never more so than lately. Hang in there.

Sub Addict - no longer.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:31 am 
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Always

How much sub do you take per day & how do you take it? All at once, twice a day? Reading your thread I remember having ups & downs for several weeks. I was really angry that i abused my pain pills and couldn't have them anymore. It was like saying good-bye to a good friend, sick as that sounds. I wanted to be numb because that was all i knew. I also had serious anger which scared me because i am not like that. For me it was an adjustment period.

Has something happened recently that is hard for you? Hang in there, it got better for me and i bet it will get better for you.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:26 am 
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Hi ATS; For those of us who are 'real addicts,' the continuous return of cravings is a given, unless we're willing to put some serious work into a real recovery solution. It will always be the same, unless something changes.

Being on Subs is a harm reduction program, which is fine for addicts who aren't ready to get clean and sober yet. (Edit: This only reflect's this poster's opinion. On this forum we don't debate what "clean and sober" means. What is important is how each member, whether they are on a bupe product or not, feels about their recovery. We value JI's experience, but his view doesn't reflect the opinion of the rest of the forum. Amy)

But if you truly are ready to live a drug free life, and know this deep down inside (despite the fears and doubts), you'll need something deeper and more meaningful. I got off Sub about 7 months ago, and I haven't had a single serious craving in that time, as well as during my taper. A couple times i've thought about using, but there's been no absolutely no power behind these thoughts; i'd just as soon take rat poison as take heroin or cocaine or Subs.

I was an absolutely insane addict btw, I was IVing speedballs for a couple years, almost to the point of death, then i was on Methadone/Subs for several years. For an addict like me not to be experiencing cravings is truly miraculous. The kicker is, I'm not really doing anything to experience this freedom, other than follow a few simple rules from my recovery program.

Happy to tell you more if you're interested.

-- ji

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:06 am 
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When u say it's fine to be on subs if ur not ready to be clean and sober yet honestly it is offensive. I understand u have ur views on it with the recovery u are now working & I respect that, but ppl like myself who consider ourselves to be clean on subs, its almost an insult for u to imply that we aren't ready to be clean yet. We have to fight the stigma of the public enough about being on subs. Each program has their own beliefs, that doesn't make my beliefs wrong. This is why I stay out of NA.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:56 am 
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Would change a word Jenn, and stigma? Its alive and well..
This forum is for thoses who have chosen There path.
Those on Buprenorphine ARE CLEAN ENOUGH. We do not
need judgements its simple as that...and this is why I left,
Ill leave it at that.
Always, hang in there mean, callyour Dr!


Razor


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:27 am 
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Always- I empathize with you, and yes you should call your doctor, and be honest with him/her. If they are a doctor with good intentions of being in the medical profession to help addicts, then they should work with you on figuring out the right dose. Early on in recovery, it is harder than once you have some time under your belt. Your brain chemistry, and body are having to adjust to not having your DOC anymore. I relapsed many times, I went to multiple rehabs, was in AA/NA for a couple of years, but for me, again what works for me, was suboxone, and support from people at my church. So many people discount church, but 14 months clean, and going strong, proves to me that what I'm doing works for me. Everyone IMO, who is in recovery, needs some kind of support group, and some kind of therapy.

I forget who said something along the lines of "when you're ready to be drug-free", blah, blah...but you need to do what works for you. I haven't broken the law in 14 months, I've put back together many relationships, and I exhibit NO signs of addict behavior, like when I was on norcos/somas. I do not have cravings anymore, but that was after beings on subs for a few months. We addicts know what kind of trouble we cause, and what kind of damage we have/can cause. I think about all the damage we could spare people if more opiate addicts had access to suboxone.

In recovery, we have to change our behavior, thought process, and of course many other things. The majority of my time was spent scheming to get my DOC, but once I had all that time freed up, I had to fill my time with other things. How about working 40 hours a week, and holding down a job for over a year now. I hadn't been able to do that until I was on subs. I play on my PS3 a lot, read, and spend time with my kids. When I have issues, I go to my support group, who helps me settle down, weigh my options, and then make the right choice that pushes me forward in my recovery.

I hope this encourages you, but you need to give it some time, talk to you doctor, find some support, it's out there (meetings are great for some people, if you find a good one, that is into recovery, not gossip, and judgments).


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:32 am 
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You have your definition of 'clean,' JJ, and I have mine. If you're offended by my definition, that's none of my business.

FWIW I never thought of myself as still in active addiction, while still on Methadone/Subs, until I started getting off these drugs. Once I got free of them, I came to understand just how much they were affecting me.

I was stuck in life, suffering, and being on Methadone/Subs was simply a poor attempt to mask the suffering (i.e. drugs aren't the problem; they're a solution which doesn't work over the long term). Getting off these drugs has allowed me to honestly work a recovery program that deals with underlying causes.

Not saying by any means that everyone on Methadone/Subs should simply get off them; there's a large hill of fear and willingness to get over. But at a certain point, when the level of suffering gets high enough, what choice is there other than to go forwards?

- ji

jennjenn wrote:
When u say it's fine to be on subs if ur not ready to be clean and sober yet honestly it is offensive. I understand u have ur views on it with the recovery u are now working & I respect that, but ppl like myself who consider ourselves to be clean on subs, its almost an insult for u to imply that we aren't ready to be clean yet. We have to fight the stigma of the public enough about being on subs. Each program has their own beliefs, that doesn't make my beliefs wrong. This is why I stay out of NA.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:01 pm 
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Well johnny the difference between me and u on this topic is that I didn't openly say that ur way is not being clean. As far as I am concerned, if u aren't in active addiction then who the hell cares how ur doing it? Who has the right to tell any of us which way is better or right and who is clean and who is not? I would never do someone that way ever. I will not post another word about this cause I don't feel the need to explain why I think I am clean. Congrats on being off sub and wish nothing but happiness for u.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:55 pm 
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Hey Always,
How are You doing today ? Hopefully your craving has slowed abit. As jenn has said they come and they go.
Please lets us know. And keep posting. Your going to be alright.



Razor


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:58 pm 
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I appreciate the replies it shows me that these feelings are normal at least.went as far as going to the atm and taking out 500.00 dollars and driving to my bros house and just sat there in the dark and thought WTF am I doing do I really want to lose my mind and my job and do this shit all over again...so the good news is i used the money to get yet another new phone because of course I declined the insurance on my other phone lol..Called my doc this morning and told her exactly what I did and she had me come in and we moved me up to 24 mg and so another day begins and I am hella upset with myself for going as far as I did yet proud that for once in my life I didn't fn do it ..I cant believe I didn't do it..so there is that at least...as far as another person telling me what poison sub is I'm just numb to the whole damn thing it doesn't even phase me I love suboxone because its damn sure the better option for me ...NOBODY can say anything to me about a serious habit I have done more than my share of that evil bitch H,I failed up cocaine weekly,I smoked meth for 3 years ,smoked the finest hash daily,and my true love (I'm ashamed to sayoxy) for more years than I can count so my point is I know all about a serious habit and suboxone has kept me clean ENOUGH for 8 weeks I obviously am gonna have to work hard at it but I have you guys and for now that's good enough


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:24 pm 
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I am so proud of you Always!

I was really worried for you when I read this today. It's so good to see that you made it through without using. As you said, don't worry about what others say to you about using suboxone. You know from your own experiences that it isn't just an easy way out. You still have to put in the work to stay sober and learn ways to work through your cravings. You are doing what you have to do to get your life back, nobody else has to understand it. Be proud of yourself, dude. Most of us here are in the same boat as you. Clean enough. Last time I checked nobody was handing out trophies for the person who made it through addiction the cleanest.

I am really happy that your doctor agreed to up your dose. It does sound like you need that for now at least. You are still so new to recovery, it's all a big shock to your system for awhile. These things will get easier for you as you put more and more time between your active addict days and your new sober life. I know that this whole experience was hard for you, and you stood strong and did the right thing. That's a victory any way you slice it.

Do you feel better after talking with your doctor? Can you tell a difference in how you feel with the new dose? And, more importantly, have you found a good counselor yet? I know you have had some bad experiences with that type of thing, but I really think if you found the right one it would help you.

Geez, aren't you glad you didn't waste that money on dope? You probably wouldn't have felt it anyway and then you would have had such terrible guilt afterward. Instead you have a new phone and you can feel proud of yourself for having overcome a very difficult moment. You came close, and it's hard to pull yourself back when you get that far. I know I already said it, but I'm so proud of you!

Q

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:05 pm 
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I appreciate that Q,and thanks again to the rest of you...I talked to my boss when I came in to work tonight and just told him a bunch of basically bullshit about needing some extra money for some unexpected bills and so he agreed to let me pull a couple extra 12 hour shifts so I will be working 12 hours a night 7 nights a week for the next 2 weeks because honestly I need to keep myself occupied because that was damn close to being a major F up and when I am on rotation at work I usually go home and pass out right after breakfast so just gonna keep myself busy for awhile...I did actually notice the bump in dosage whether it is mentally or whatever..The thing I cant wrap my head around is I don't know if this is considered cravings when anything would have done the trick not just oxy although lol that was damn sure what I was going to get..This was my weekend off (I get 2 weekend off a month) and when I was getting off work Friday morning I just got this shit stuck in my head and I COULDN'T QUIT THINKING ABOUT IT and how I just miss that excitement of the beginning of those days off work when you just really need to feel something you know sometimes I think the actual time leading up to getting lifted is better than the actual time after you have done it ..Man I just cant explain what I am trying to say so I am just gonna drop that part of it..anyways as far as my psycho doc I have still been going and see her tomorrow before work and I will reluctantly fill her in as well..I am also gonna TRY a meeting soon but I am NOT telling them I am on suboxone because we all know where that's going and I'm there in person and we all know I probably won't react to well with someone talking about what losers or whatever we are for taking it ...wow I am just rambling as usual


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:30 pm 
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Just wanted to add I don't mean to sound ungrateful in Any way I know some people cant even get much needed help and I really need to focus on that ..Just HELLA FRUSTRATED WITH MYSELF and very impatient I need to understand this isn't gonna just happen for me overnight..Just really don't have anyone besides doctors to talk to considering all your "homies" drop off the face of the earth when u ain't filling up they damn pockets anymore..so u guys are all I got and that's good by me lol


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:03 am 
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johnny_ikon wrote:

Being on Subs is a harm reduction program, which is fine for addicts who aren't ready to get clean and sober yet.


-- ji


I'm sorry, JI, but that does sound very condescending. We try to leave the definitions of what is clean and sober and in recovery up to each individual to decide for themselves. I'm not sure what it was like for you, but when I went on suboxone it was more than just reducing harm that I was experiencing. It was a complete 180 in terms of my behavior and thinking. I consider myself clean and sober. Maybe I'll have a different opinion at some point. I don't know.

It's definitely fine to have your own opinion about it, but it's my business as a mod to make sure that it is clear that it is just your opinion. That's why I'm adding a small edit to your post.

I'm not totally sure what your point is about not having cravings during your 7 months of being off all opiates. It's really great for you, that's for sure! But in terms of a lifetime of addiction, unfortunately there's a long way to go. I think Dr. Junig mentioned being abstinent for 7 years before he relapsed. Obviously, everyone has a different story despite the daunting statistics, and I sincerely hope that you have nothing but recovery in your future. Also, it sounds like you have found something deep and meaningful to help you in your abstinence. It could be really helpful to people if you were to start a thread in Stopping Suboxone about what that's like for you and how you found it. It does take a lot of strength to be in recovery and to have 7 months free of opiates. Anything you can share about how you've done it so far could be a boon to other members.

Amy

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:14 am 
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Always

First of all I am so PROUD of you for doing the right thing for your recovery! I know how hard it is. IMO the other important thing is good counselor/therapy. I had gone to an addiction specialist the month before i started sub. I just didn't get any real "help" from her. I got even more depressed. I wanted to stop using and didn't feel the addiction therapy was helping. Luckily i was able to start sub and got a referral to another therapist who was in the same group. I felt awkward but switched and found the new addiction specialist to be great. Do you feel you are getting the right help from your counselor?

Just hang in there and soon you will find those cravings diminished to where they don't really matter anymore. I have had some tough times and will admit it has crossed my mind but that's it..just a thought and gone. Early on i would make myself remember the crappy life i created while in active addiction. You will also find life will give you that "lift" - i think i understand what you met by the excitement of the lift after working all week.

This forum has great people who devote many hours to supporting strangers but at some point we are no longer strangers but friends of the forum.

Keeping busy is Great! You are doing the right thing now you just need time to get used to a new life.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:21 pm 
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I totally agree with Tiki, Always. It matters that you made the decisions you did.

Amy

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:19 am 
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Hi Amy, I understand 'condescending' as speaking down to someone, which I am definitely not doing. I don't think any less of someone because they are on drugs (prescription or otherwise). People make their own choices, and those choices are none of my business.

But to say that an addict is 'clean' or 'sober' while using a powerful opiate, even if it's taken exactly as prescribed, simply isn't honest. Do you really draw no distinction between an addict that remains drug dependent versus an addict who is living drug-free? The foundation of recovery is honesty.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting it's 'bad' or 'wrong' to be on a Subs maintenance program; I believe Methadone and Subs saves lives (including mine).

But it is self-evident that 'drug-free' is ultimately more desirable than 'drug dependent,' and this belief is the guiding star for any discussion of addiction recovery.

-- ji

Amy-Work In Progress wrote:
johnny_ikon wrote:

Being on Subs is a harm reduction program, which is fine for addicts who aren't ready to get clean and sober yet.


-- ji


I'm sorry, JI, but that does sound very condescending. We try to leave the definitions of what is clean and sober and in recovery up to each individual to decide for themselves. I'm not sure what it was like for you, but when I went on suboxone it was more than just reducing harm that I was experiencing. It was a complete 180 in terms of my behavior and thinking. I consider myself clean and sober. Maybe I'll have a different opinion at some point. I don't know.

It's definitely fine to have your own opinion about it, but it's my business as a mod to make sure that it is clear that it is just your opinion. That's why I'm adding a small edit to your post.

--- (snip)

Amy

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