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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:11 am 
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Yah i will look into some groups dont really know why i haven't yet that may be actually a good type setting for me ..I know that when 2 or 3 of u guys respond to me that u have been through something similar it helps me tremendously..Im not really sure why my sub doc doesn't require meetings but he encourages it of course...In fact when he asked me last Friday if i was going to any meetings i told him no but i have some really good support online and told him about this site so now he tells his new intakes about this site ,,, as far as having a months worth of meds i already had a decent stash from taking less than i should have ..i dont know what it is about sub but i never really felt the need or want to take it more than i was supposed to dont really know why just dont...But it could be because i take several small doses throughout the day because of the chronic pain thing so maybe that has something to do with it ...


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:10 am 
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Well i truly hope im not completely screwed..early yesterday morning around 2 am long story short i had a small physical altercation with a very intoxicated individual at work unfortunately he made a very serious mistake and tried to grab my service weapon and so after a couple of quick sessions with a tazer he ended up going to jail and i ended up in the hospital with horrible chest pains ...so now here i lay in this hospital bed awaiting a stress test tomorrow...(smoked cigarettes,hash,and chronic for 25 years) not great for heart health appearantly lol..my problem is when i woke up today i was having some anxiety and took some xanex i had from a left over prescription that i had my niece go to my house and get and sneak em into my hospital room just like the little piece of shit addict i am ...so now what?? Couldn't even make it 3 months and if i find out i need heart surgery im hella fucked then ..signed PATHETIC


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:58 am 
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Always,
Look my Okie friend, Shit happens!!! Ok?,what we are doing AINT easy. Oh it can Look easy reading how some people are doing but it is a daily fight we all go though.
STOP beating yurself up. No good.. gezz, if i was laying in the hospital with chest pains, id be wanting SOMETHING too to calm myself..
At least you got that jerk off of you without getting hurt or hot, uno?. Subs are great, they are, but they cant solve all our problems in a snap. Its a loug road, and your on it and doing fine. Hey, did you sneak a opiate? No. You didn't. One step and one day at a time ..thats all we havd, thats all we can do Always...Hope like hell your heart is ok.

I know all your friends here at the Subforum will be hopeing and praying for you. You have to know that.
Keep us posted man, it ll be ok...

Razor R....


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:01 am 
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Always

Your life sounds similar to mine Seems like something always pops up that i have to deal with and i get so tired of the BS. But that's my life and there are good times & even great times. Like i said with the kidney stone just a week into treatment...i did pass it and several others with just sub for pain. When i had the tests on kidneys the CT Scan found i have "multiple bilateral stones" so i have a bunch of stones in both kidneys and just because i am me, the test also found a hiatial l hernia :(

As for the stress test, there are many different ways they do them. Mine was sort of easy because i had a "cardiac event" so they didn't want me to crap out on the treadmill LOL It wasn't bad & it came back ok.

I feel for you! I really do, because i can identify. Hang in there and hopefully your stress test comes out ok and you get released.

In my prayers Always..


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:27 pm 
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Dang Always,

So I'm guessing you weren't the one who got tazed, right? I can't believe you've wound up in the hospital after all the crap you've been through lately. Don't beat yourself up so much about the benzo. Yes, it was a bad decision. But under the circumstances an understandable one. If you are going to have a UA soon your best bet is to tell your sub doc the truth about taking it and hope he understands.

As for the whole heart surgery, are you positive you will have to have it yet or is it dependent upon the results of the stress test? Best case scenario you won't need it. But, if you do there are ways to go through this type of thing while in treatment. Your surgeon will have to work very closely with your suboxone doctor to be sure you have adequate pain control. I'm sure it will mean that you will have to go off the Subs for awhile, but after your recovery you can go back on them and start fresh. Above all be honest with your doctors and yourself and don't let that addict inside your head sabotage your recovery because of this setback. You can choose to use this as a building block or an excuse. Whatever you do, it's up to you.

I'm rooting for you, dude. Keep us posted on what the test results say.

Q

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:24 pm 
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Thanks for the support guys i knew if anyone would understand it would be u guys ...But once again my temper screwed me ...Keep in mind before i tell u guys this i know very little about insurance and all that and most of u know i have a small attitude with doctors...So anyways around 10am after they told me nothing to eat or drink after midnight besides small sips of water so it had been 10 hours i FINALLY hit that stupid nurse button and asked why i hadn't had my test yet..she rudely expained that she couldn't tell me exactly when my test would be because they had to squeeze me in schedule wise ..well long story short i went absolutely ape shit and told her in no way am i gonna lay here for a undetermined amount of time with nothing to eat or drink and asked to be discharged immediately..well turns out if u are admitted and leave against doctors orders you are screwed on the insurance paying for it...lol all i.can do is laugh because i am such a genius...so i will call my primary doc Monday and get a stress test scheduled and i have already had to take my nitro twice since getting home because of the wonderful chest pains ..I guess if it happens again i will have to go to another hospital...Good news is lol i didn't take any opiates besides my suboxone and i will call my sub doc here in a bit and explain the xanex hopefully being honest wont bite me in the ass


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:04 pm 
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Always

Yep, if you leave AMA your insurance won't cover the stay. That's a pretty new rule..it wasn't even enforced for a while but now they enforce it. My Aunt wanted to leave a rehab (physical) and they told her if she left she would have to pay...she called me and made me find out if it was true. She was so angry!

You do have the option of "pleading your case for leaving" and it's worth a try but don't waste time with the first person who answers...at least get a supervisor on the line or someone that can actually make the decision.

Always your Always in my prayers!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:03 pm 
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I first have some hopefully good news for you. I say hopefully because dealing with insurance companies is a huge pain in the ass crap shoot no matter what. I also have to say that each insurance company has their own crazy rules which they seem to change all the time but are at least SUPPOSED to adhere to state and federal insurance regulations. So what I'm saying is there is no way I can be certain in your case but the old "if you leave AMA, insurance won't cover your bill." Is one on the oldest wives tales told by medical staff. I know because I was active in daily healthcare for over 20 years and am still involved. It's generally not true. I've stood alongside nurses while they have said this to the patient only to walk away and laugh, joke or otherwise add, its a load of crap to try to get you to stay - and for your own good. Most insurance companies have as job one trying to get out of paying medical bills they do all they can not to cover you, to disallow your tests or meds, to require pre-authorization and pretty much do all they can to save money. Yet if you want to leave and they get to rack up no more expense on you - they have a rule against it? It's often not true. It's the oldest line.

Again, I can't be sure in any individual case. I just know its been a yarn in the ER and elsewhere forever.

Now that said... DUDE: you are your own worst enemy! Sudden cardiac arrest kills hundreds of people every single day. Your chance of surviving if you go downand someone starts CPR right away is still only about 15%. Why would you leave like that? Why do you seem to want to sabotage your life? This is serious shit. You were not the only patient needing a stress test that day. They are not fucking with you just to fuck with you. They didn't wake up that morning thinking, how many patients can a fuck over today! Did you really expect them to cancel everyone else and put you at the head of the line? That nurse likly has never met the person scheduling your test. I'm willing to bet he or she has never even been inside the stress test lab! She really had no idea when your test would happen. She was just being honest with you. Did you want her to lie to you? She was just being honest about something totally and completly out of her control. But you sure showed her, didn't you. I just don't get it.

Please don't let this go. The body is great about telling you when something is not right. One main way the body does this is with pain. Chest pain is nothing at all to fuck around with. It can kill you or just as bad, perhaps worse, having a heart attack can do irreversable damadge to your heart. It can be life changing. Please don't let that happen. You've come all this way - so far that even huge opiate abuse dud not kill you. Don't let a heart attack do it.

And for Gods sake, quit being your own worst enemy! Taking a benzo is not the worst thing and is far less likely to kill you than a heart attack is.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:21 pm 
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Donh,for once we agree on something that was idiotic to say the least..I always think i by god know whats best and do everything on IMPULSE (shocker right) up until i took my current job the only medical care i ever had was the V.A. and so now i have the corporate job and hella good insurance and dont have a clue what the hell im doing as u can tell..and believe me if i had even controlled my idiotic mind for one minute i probably would have dine things differently..To be honest what had me in a bad mood was from the minute i went in they almost acted shitty because i refused the morphine..i cant tell u how many fn times i said i DON'T WANT ANY MORPHINE..They kept saying oh well its the gold standard for chest pain because it opens the circulation ok thats freaking fine but i didn't know how it might set me back to get that IV ..Meant to ask u guys about that too ..I wasn't necessarily worried about it sending me into relapse but would it make me have to wait how long to take my sub again and all that ..would i go into PW ?? Anyways thanks so much for the info and no im not letting this go im already set up to find out whats going on and gonna do my best to think about how my decisions affect not only me but other people in the future...


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:11 pm 
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Hey always,

The fact that you can see Don's post for what it was and agree with what he said is a huge step forward for you. You have really made some great leaps forward with that, and I'm happy to see that you are starting to get outside of your head a bit and see the other side of things.

As for the morphine, you absolutely did the right thing. More than likely it wouldn't have done a thing in the world for you because the subs would have blocked it. It wouldn't have effected you taking your next dose of sub, but your doctor might have been very upset if you had agreed to take it. Be sure when you go back in to get your tests run that the hospital knows you are on suboxone and are working with your sub doctor when giving you any pain meds.

Q

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:21 pm 
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So now after defending the medical staff taking care of you I'll rip them a bit. As many of us have found out, scant few medical people know much if anything about Bup or sub. Yes MONA has been the American Heart Association standard of care for a long, long time

M - morphine
O - oxygen
N - nitroglycerine
A - aspirin

Pretty much every chest pain patient will get it. That said, most often they give you 2 mg at a time to a max of 10 mg all IV. While I can't imagine any sub doctor with even half a brain discharging a patient for accepting MS04 during a potential heart attack, it would not have done ANYTHING for you as the sub would have blocked it. Taking any opiate while on sub will NEVER put you in precipitated withdrawl. It can't. It's when you are full of opiate and no sub and then take sub that could happen. Inducting back would not be an issue either. Again, in the end it doesn't matter as it would never hit your fully blocked receptors.

The VA in many, many areas has a piss poor reputation. It's sad that after putting their lives on the line that they (you) get rotten healthcare from many VA. I'm sorry for that and fully understand your frustration. There is no guarantee that non VA care will be better but try to give them a chance because it's at least likely it will be an improvement from what you've expierenced.

Very glad to hear you're folloung up on this. Hopefully it won't be cardiac in nature - or if it is, they can fix it for you! Let us know how it turns out.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:45 pm 
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Thanks Q,,,And again great info donh ..I just wanted to expand on that point a bit more...first i was of course in the er and while putting all the electrode things on my chest (Not sure what they are called) they of course put the needle thing that u hook the IV line to and i do wanna say really quick that if i was having a heart attack that is the ER i would wanna be at cuz they had about 5 people in there hookin all kinds of crap up to me ,,,anyway the doctor was asking me hella questions and out of the corner of my eye i see a nurse or whatever drawing meds into a syringe and i just happened to say hey what is that as she was walking towards me and she could have said about a hundred words for all i know but by god MORPHINE stood out lol anyways i said oh no no im on suboxone and im not making this up she said what is that and the doc intrupted and said oh are u on it for pain management and i proudly said no im on it because im an addict and i dont want that morphine and im telling u it was as if i hadn't said anything because he said well it helps open things up and again i said i would rather not so long story (kinda) short this back and forth went on for 2 or 3 minutes my old lady finally said he is in treatment for opiate addiction and that seemed to sink in finally...It didn't however end there when i got to a room the nurse on duty introduced herself and said im only on duty for another 45 minutes so how's your pain ?? I said well im still having some slight pressure rught in the center of my chest and she of course said well we will get u some morphine for that and i had to again explain what suboxone was about..When she was relieved i had a very nice nurse and the first thing out of her mouth was did the morphine take care of your pain and AGAIN i said suboxone and she actually knew all about it and still proceeds to tell me well ok but morphine IS THE GOLD STANDARD for chest pain..So my point is 1 out of 3 nurses knew about suboxone but the biggest shocker was how bad they pushed me to take it even after i was 100 percent honest about my issues ..You guys can read this and think im maybe exaggerating and u can certainly believe whatever the hell u like but this was my first experience being on suboxone while seeking emergency medical care and i was still SHOCKED at the overall reactions i received although they weren't hella negative just hella uninformed


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:51 pm 
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Sorry guys i gotta learn how to use periods to end my sentences ..,lol


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:26 pm 
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Well, I'm glad that at least you didn't have to deal with any judgment from the nursing staff about your addiction. I don't have any personal experience with emergency care while on subs, but we do get a lot of stories with the same complaint as you. Somehow doctors still don't really understand suboxone and how differently they have to treat patients who use it. You would think after 10 years and an ever increasing popularity of the drug they would take the time to figure it out. You can't possibly be the first patient they have ever encountered who was taking it.

Thanks to Don for posting the info above. It's good to have a little bit more understanding of what to expect if that situation ever arises.

Q

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:38 pm 
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I don't think I decently typed out what I intended to say last time. I'm not on my computer but rather my tablet so my brain goes way, way faster than I can type. What I wanted to say but did not was ER and ambulance staff get so focused and tunnel vision on what needs to be done they don't think of these other things - even if they know about them.

In this case all they cared about was helping your possible heart attack. As we've said they often don't know about suboxone. In this case, even if they did, they really don't care. I was a paramedic for 22 years and it is so drummed into you. It's like breathing lol. Chest pain gets MONA case closed. Only if you have allergies to one of these meds does it make a difference. It is so routine to them. All they are thinking is MONA could save your life. Addiction comes second to that. The thing is, the sub would gave blocked the morphine anyhow. But say it didn't. What's better - live through the heart attack and PERHAPS relapse or die but remain "clean" I guarentee you that's what that doc was thinking. I'm sure, put in those terms, you all understand. Again it's a moot point as the sub would have blocked it anyhow.

As q said, it's encouraging that they didn't bat an eye at you being on Bup or admitting you're an addict. That's pretty cool! I also think it's very cool you are so committed to sobriety you didn't want anything! That is great - always.

The thing is, at some point we all will likely need opiates. It's just likely to happen. It's always better if its not early on in our sobriety but we all will likly face it at some point. It's somehing everyone has to deal with in their preferred way. Just don't suffer or put your life at risk refusing it. Now I'm not at all saying always put himself at risk by refusing morphine as I don't believe he did (walking out AMA on the other hand... But we won't go there - LOL) but not refusing a little MS04. Just know always, the day may come you'll have to accept pain meds. THAT IS NOT A RELAPSE!!! Not in any way, shape or form!

You should be very proud of your progress always! You seem to be doing great with sobriety!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:08 pm 
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I appreciate that don and great info to know in the future..i admit i didn't know or if i did i wasn't thinking too clear at the time ,,and your right thats pretty scary now that i think about it..at the time for all i knew i was about to die and all i was thinking was opiates hell no lol..i was under the impression at the time that they were trying to actually treat the pain part of it with morphine..I didn't understand until i was taken upstairs that the morphine actually had a "benefit" other than pain relief..But i was certain i wouldn't feel it anyway..but whatever i know now... just a funny well not really note is i went in to see a cardiologist this morning and while his nurse was putting my current meds in the computer for they records , when i said suboxone she asked me to spell it and then said hmmmm thats a first for me hun whats that for ? Swear .. lol needless to say i wasn't shocked


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:06 pm 
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Just a update..my stress test went awsome i did the whole time on the treadmill without stopping and the doc said my heart is 100% healthy..kind shocked considering all the coke and meth i have done over my life span not to mention when i got out of the military all i did was sit in my patrol car and eat freaking donuts and chain smoke cigarettes lol..But regardless its good...HOWEVER i think sometimes i am too stupid to breathe..i went to my primary doc this morning and explained to her that Since my heart seemed healthy i was ready to start exercising and trying to get about 25 pounds off and did she have any recommendations as to the best way to start considering i have been spending alot more time behind a desk the last couple years since i was promoted to supervisor at my job...so she says oh you should of course eat healthy and gives me a diet blah blah blah and says im also gonna write u a script of some really good diet pills that some of my patients have had great success on ..so not thinking as usual i get the script filled this morning without any research of course and pop 2 when it says 1 of course (old habits die hard) well turns out they are fucking AMPHETAMINES which of course i doubt my sub doc will appreciate on a drug screen..If you guys remember i took some benzos not too long ago and ratted myself out to my sub doc about that just last week..now while the sub doc was cool about the benzo screw up and just said no problem just stop taking them i damn sure dont wanna say something about these ...What do you guys think??? Just quit taking em and hope they dont pop on my U.A. next Friday or am i making too much of this ??


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:47 am 
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Hey Always :)

Glad to hear ur stress test went well and everything seems cool with ur heart. What a relief, my boyfriend is going through the same thing only he had to have a stint in his leg cause of a blood clot so u have great news.

I just wanna give u my opinion with ur diet pill the Dr gave u. Is it Adapex? Even if it isn't and its still an amphetamine, I think its a good possibility u will fail ur drug screen. I remember when I first started at my clinic yrs ago, there was this girl who'd been there for awhile and I always looked up to her cause she'd been there awhile and I was new. Well one day she was really upset and told the group in meeting that she'd went to a weight loss clinic and got some diet pills and thought nothing of it til she showed up for her drug screen and failed. The Dr didn't kick her out but told her if she wanted to stay a patient in the clinic she had to stop since it was an amphetamine. So she stopped.

If I were u, I'd tell the sub Dr that this other Dr gave u a script for this and ask ur sub Dr what he will allow. I'd probably hold off on the diet pill til I knew if it would cause a problem or not. Ur sub Dr may not have an issue with it, but if he's like mine he will and u don't wanna push ur luck u know? So IMO better safe than sorry. If ur Dr says its cool then Ok but I'd hate to see u get in trouble.

Have a wonderful day always!!! And again, I'm so glad ur heart is good & beating along :)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:17 pm 
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No it's Phentermine duh I guess the mine on the end should have been my first clue lol..but regardless it's gone anyway we have random UA at work and it's on the banned list in the handbook that came out with the new drug policy this year so no go..probably best anyway because damn things made me feel like I smoked a 20 of glass and could lead to bad bad things so as bad so so bad I didn't wanna I flushed em... grrrrrr


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:19 pm 
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Can't believe I flushed em.. I may just make it afterall


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