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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:56 pm 
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I've been back on the subox for a few months now, and this has been an ongoing problem. I used to need only 8-10 hours sleep to function fine. These days I need at least 12. For a while I put this down to laziness, but after surfing this forum I've realised I'm not alone.

What I've found happens is if I don't reign in my whack sleeping patterns, eventually I can find myself crashing out at 6-7am and sleeping til 6-7pm. But if I keep my sleeping hours more normal and try to sleep no more than 10 hours at night, after a while I find myself sleep deprived and I feel much less secure in my recovery. It can get to the point where I lack sleep so much that I'm certain I'm heading for a relapse, weird neurotic thoughts kick in, then I have a solid sleep to catch up (12 hours) and I feel fine again.

Next year I return to study and I'm worried how I'm going to go, especially since I often sleep through my alarm or turn it off in my sleep and then don't turn up to the few responsibilities I do have.

How have you guys worked around the extra sleep hours you need on subox?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:43 am 
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I take a pretty high dose of sub - between 16-24 mg/day and I've never had any need for extra sleep. I usually do fine on about 6 hours/night. It's possible that your dose is a bit too high for your needs. What dose are you on now? What dose were you on before you last stopped sub? Often when people stop and go back on sub they require a much lower dose than they did before. Most people that have somnolence issues while on sub have decreased their dose and the issues subsided.
I hope this helps. Take care! :)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:39 pm 
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Thanks for sharing this! I suffer from this as well. I don't really feel the need for more sleep to function but definitely have SO MUCH trouble getting up after 8 hours of sleep. Once I do get up i am fine but I do not feel rested when that alarm goes off. Yesterday I was late for work and I work at a store which i need to open for business, NOT GOOD. Since starting on the film which I believe has increased my dose by better absorption, I feel it (the zombie sleepiness) a lot more so I think hatmaker has the answer for us right here.

Thanks for the suggestion hatmaker!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:45 pm 
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Hi, i have the opposite problems. i don't sleep. i have to take ambien and even then i wake up a few times a night. i tried melatonin., lunesta, ambien cr, trazadone. nothing. nothing makes me sleep. i can sympathize with both problems. any suggestions from those that don't sleep?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:11 pm 
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wow sorry to hear you haveing this issue but it also suprises me at the same time. i myself am on 16mgs a day an actuallly had the opposite i was getting insomnia from the sub so i was put on a light sleeping pill. well a couple years down the road im diganosed with OCD an the reason i couldnt sleep was cause my ocd was so bad my mind was raceing on what i had to do the next day. now im on a very heavy combination for sleeping an i only need 8 to 10 hours at most. im on lunesta to keep me a sleep and 100mg of seroquel to knock me out. seroquel is rarely used for a sleep med but in my case its was the strongest thing they could put me on that wasnt a benzo!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:25 am 
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Quote:
Thanks for sharing this! I suffer from this as well. I don't really feel the need for more sleep to function but definitely have SO MUCH trouble getting up after 8 hours of sleep. Once I do get up i am fine but I do not feel rested when that alarm goes off. Yesterday I was late for work and I work at a store which i need to open for business, NOT GOOD. Since starting on the film which I believe has increased my dose by better absorption, I feel it (the zombie sleepiness) a lot more so I think hatmaker has the answer for us right here.


This is exactly my problem. I simply struggle to wake up in the mornings. Even when the alarm is over the other side of the room, I must be turning it off and getting back in bed. Next thing I know it's around midday and I've lost half the day. Fortunately I'm not working much at the moment, and when I do it's in the afternoons.

As for the insomnia side of things, yes - I also have this. I find my thoughts are racing from the stimulant properties of the suboxone when I try to sleep. Then when I do finally sleep I simply can't wake up. Overall however I need 10-12 hours instead of 6-8 or 8-10.

I doubt it's got anything to do with being on too high a dose. If anything my dose is on the low side at the moment (see my thread re my reduction from 8mg to 7mg). Recently I've started to take half my dose inthe morning and half closer to bed time and the problems with 7mg holding me has subsided. But I still get aches in my legs and cravings tending towards my next dose. And the thought consistently plays on my head that I could skip my dose and go and use. Instead I whack my subox under my tongue and I'm sorted for another 10 odd hours. I haven't used for a number of months now. In fact, this is the longest period I've spent in my home city without putting a needle in my arm for 12 years (I did have a couple of years clean but that involved moving interstate and doing a lengthy rehab term).


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:41 am 
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I find my thoughts are racing from the stimulant properties of the suboxone when I try to sleep.


What stimulant properties does suboxone/subutex have that you're referring to? Do you have any information/evidence to cite that says bupe has any such properties? Racing thoughts before bed is usually a sign of something else and likely not related to the sub. Just my opinion.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:12 pm 
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Hat, many people report getting a large rush of energy, the ability to get things done, do large amounts of work, etc. after taking regular opiates. The same thing then happens, but to a lesser degree, with Suboxone - as it is also an opiate. While it may seem like a stimulent of sorts, it is actually much more a function of being taken out of withdrawals - where you often feel tired, sluggish, have no energy, etc. The Suboxone returns you to "normal" and seemingly provides you with energy, etc. I would have to say that it's obviously not a stimulant drug. I think that is clear. But to someone who is depressed, tired, sluggish, listless, due to being in opiate withdrawal, Suboxone may very well "feel like" a stimulant as it removes most or all of the feelings that come with being in opiate withdrawal. I think that is what Tearjerker was refering to.

I hope that makes sense. You are very correct in that Suboxone is certainly not a stimulant. However, to many people, it certainly can feel like it has some of those properties - even though it is usually only returning someone to "normal" from whatever "abnormal" states drug use has left them in. From what I hear and read, this seems to be a common problem for many Suboxone users. Some simply can't take it at night or it will keep them awake.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:16 pm 
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I hear what you're saying, don, and as always, I appreciate you taking the time to explain what you think was meant by the statement. I just wouldn't want lurkers or new members to read that and think that sub actually does have "stimulant properties", that's all.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:28 pm 
tearjerker, I'm having the same problem. Eight hours of sleep never seems like enough to me since I've been on sub. I just started working again, and even if I go to bed at 10pm, when the alarm goes off at 6am I seriously feel like it's the middle of the night. I mean, sometimes I cannot even FORCE myself to get up, and I've already been late for work a couple of times. On the week-end if I have a chance to sleep in, I can easily sleep until 11:00. I could also take a nap just about any time.
The flip side is also true for me, though. If I take my Sub late in the evening, or just before bed, I feel all wound up and I can't get to sleep. It's really becoming a concern for me. When I wasn't working I could fit in a nap or something, but now I feel like my only option would be to go to bed at 8:30 with the kids. But the time after the kids go to bed is the only time I have for myself all day. (I'm on a pretty low dose, too.)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:45 pm 
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tearj3rker wrote:
Quote:
This is exactly my problem. I simply struggle to wake up in the mornings. Even when the alarm is over the other side of the room, I must be turning it off and getting back in bed. Next thing I know it's around midday and I've lost half the day. Fortunately I'm not working much at the moment, and when I do it's in the afternoons.


I did the same thing!! plus it is this new alarm clock I got that is SO LOUD - my neighbors have commented about it. I get up go across the room and hit snooze like 10 times. On my days off I want to be up at 10am and am in bed until 2:00pm. Just like you, cant FORCE myself even.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:36 pm 
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I also do this. If I have no obligations, I will literally sleep the day away, and I'm happy to do it, too. I just have this desire for sleep that is absolutely insatiable, and it's been this way ever since I started taking any sort of opiate. When I was on my drug of choice I would sleep even more.

I, too, am on a low dose of Suboxone (around 2mg), and while this urge to sleep my life away has dwindled somewhat from the higher dose that I started out at, it hasn't gone away entirely. Sometimes I feel I need a nap at 11pm, or something ridiculous like that (I stay up all night), even though I have slept seven hours or more the night before.

I don't think that there's much that can help us. I drink a lot of coffee to combat the sleepies after work, and that seems to help. For an hour. For the most part, I am content with the medication, and it does so much for me that I can't really even dislike this side effect, so I just live with it. I think the only thing that could make this better would be a stimulant, but obviously that's out of the question.


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