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 Post subject: why am I so mean lately?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:01 pm 
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Does anybody else think they are grumpy/edgy on subs? I'm such a bitch to my bf, everything he does annoys me. I know I'm being mean but can't control myself, I say whatever I'm thinking.....just blirts out of my mouth. Does anyone else have an opinion on that? I'm certainly not trying to blame suboxone. I'm not a sub hater. it has changed my life. Just trying to figure out if I've got "issues" like bipolar or if this is just the addict in me that says these mean things. I can give an example. This is the latest argument. He is 48, I am 34. I was asking him his future plans. He is terrible with money. Lives check to check like really irresponsible. I was asking him how his pension plan works. He tried telling me that the union will pay him his pension once a mos and it will be the amount he makes now. That just doesn't sound right to me. Unions dont pay people, companies do. And he certainly isn't gonna get paid the same he's making now! He also snores super loud. I don't want to break up with him if it's just me. Or is it?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:16 pm 
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Has it ever occurred to you that it might be PMS or PMDD? I highly doubt it's the suboxone. For me, suboxone has actually made me a much easier person to live with. I'm not nearly the bitch that I used to be while I was using and even before that.

As for your boyfriend's pension plan...All companies are different. Who knows what he'll make and where the check will come from? Wait until you're calmer before discussing it again, would be my unsolicited advice.

Lastly, I'm sorry but off the top of my head I don't recall how long you've been on suboxone. I have some other thoughts, but it depends on how long you've been in recovery/remission.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:17 pm 
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If memory serves me correctly, you tapered from 4mg to 2mg, right?

I'm not sure if you went back up to 3mg like some suggested, but even if you did you're probably experiencing some kind of rebound from your massive drop earlier. When tapering off sub, you will certainly notice some emotional side effects. I experienced anger problems too. My brain was pissed at me and took it out on the ones I loved usually. I know it sucks. It is very[sup]2[/sup] hard to control. I would try taking a break from what I was doing...didn't help. I would try to focus on my breathing...didn't help. I was upfront with my family about my anger and asked them to please forgive me when I turned into a raging asshole.

Hopefully, you reach equilibrium soon, taper slowly and won't experience the anger too much anymore.

Good luck with it.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:43 pm 
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Hi Hat and Romeo. Hat, I ve been on suboxone for 1 1/2 yrs. I mistyped in a previous post that it was 2 1/2 yrs but it was May 09. Don't know why I thought it was may '08. Anyhow Hat, I'm just getting over my monthly. I do get PMS but not "MS" I think this all stems from me decreasing my dose too quickly. I'm so messed up with the lack of sleep and the anxiety, forgetfulness, absentmindness (i know, not a real word) I really feel like I'm losing it. So strange how I want to blame suboxone. It's all my fault. It's the lack OF suboxone that's got me feeling this way. I hope my bf forgives me for being so mean. It's so easy to point the finger at other people. He knows he has a pension plan. Just cause he doesn't know exactly how it works shouldn't be such a big deal. I feel awful. To answer your other question I've been clean since June 25th 2008 when I got my first dose of methadone then switched to suboxone about a yr later.

Romeo....in response to your question. I did take the advice from you guys and I'm back at 3 mgs. Your right, i'm prob feeling rebound effects from that massive drop i did. Not my best decision,not my worst either. Sounds like we have a lot in common with the emotional aspects. Correct me if I'm wrong... i think you posted that you have some mania issues and take lithium and suggested that to me. I have taken lots of different SSRI's, I don't think they work. Benzos work for me or have worked for me, nervous about addiction but I truly feel I am a good candidate for them. I can't wait to get to my Psych this week to find out about possibly switching my benzo to klonopin because it's longer lasting than ativan and mentioning that I think instead of my depression, maybe i have some bipolar symptoms going on as well. Which mite be why I'm an addict in the first place.....i was trying to escape the mind that I am trapped in. Thanks guys, I'm having a rough time lately and your being kind to me. I do appreciate the support I get here. It makes me feel less alone than i usually feel.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:48 pm 
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just to clarify, I wasn't saying that lithium is an SSRi, I know that it isn't. That is one reason why i would like to try it. It helps you sleep and it's a different med, I believe it's a MAOI?? Not sure about that though. Obviously now I'm gonna look that up. Thanks guys. I appreciate your help.

Amy


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:52 pm 
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downing2b said, ' i think you posted that you have some mania issues and take lithium and suggested that to me'

That wasn't me, but a couple of pounds of lithium probably would do me some good! :D

Admitting the anger issue was a huge step downing2b, a lot of people never get that far...it's called denial. You admitted you have an issue and in my book that is the first and BIGGEST step to getting better.

You had to of felt better just getting it off your chest?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:13 am 
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so i have the same problem. when my bf and i started dating i was 3-4 months on suboxone and i was so negative. I didnt see the negativity in myself until he finally almost decided not to move in with me. He was like, your always mean, everything always sucks and your always pissed off. I looked back and thought wow hes right and i dont know how he put up with me becuase i wouldnt have put up with it if it was reversed. I still have the anger issues and they are worse when its tthat time of the month but ever since quitting pills i had all this anger and just raw emotion and i didnt know wha tto do with it so i just took it out on anyone around me. I am able now to take a step back and look at things and try to re route my feelings so i can deal with them in a more appropriate way. I felt bad though because he was def putting up with a lot of bs from me. This isnt to say that you shouldnt give your bf your opinion regarding anything you are pissed about but maybe its just raw emotion that you are expressing in a different way now that you are not numbing your feelings. I know you have been off pills for over a year but sometimes we get sdide effects that come way after the fact and this may be one of them for you.


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 Post subject: downing...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:47 am 
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It was me who is on the lithium for being mildly bipolar, it is why I took opiates, they ( my Dr ) call it self-medicating.. Lithium is a mood drug..and, maybe you just dont like unions, and the way there run , and the way there pensions are set up, ect ect ect... Please be patient, Mike PS : People either love unions or hate them


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:59 am 
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Ahyes... The bupe cranky. I know it well!

Fortunately I'm not going through it at the moment, but I do hear you and yes, I believe it exists and is due to the suboxone. It also only seems to happen in some people, generally comes and goes, and seems dose dependent. I've felt it at different times on the treatment (usually higher doses), and when I was with a partner who was also on suboxone treatment, she had the bupe cranky bad!

I have a theory about this (based on my own experiences, no double blind studies or nothing but I was quite blind at the time) that all opiates cause a degree of irritability. It's just the full agonists usually drown that crankyness out with a stoned feeling. I remember I was on a decent dose of naltrexone (pills) at one stage. I was one nasty prick to be around on that stuff. Why? I don't know. Just had a gripe with everything and everyone around me.

I'm on lithium also, and epilim for bipolar type 1. My then girlfriend had borderline personality disorder. Maybe it's just a dual-diagnosis + suboxone thing?

I remember mentioning it to the doc and he threw off saying it was just early recovery. "How did you think you'd feel after all these years of putting drugs into your body and now you're clean?"

I reminded him of the 12 months I was clean with no suboxone and how I wasn't at all irritable then, but he didn't want to hear it.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:43 am 
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tearjerker -

Are you saying the suboxone causes this crankiness because it happened when you went on it? When it comes to a connection between two things, it's important to remember that correlation is not the same as causation. It would be like saying that when ice cream sales go up, more murders take place. The ice cream doesn't cause the murders, but there is a correlation between the two.

There is a myriad of things that can cause irritability and/or crankiness. Please just keep that in mind. I'm not trying to be a bitch here, I just want things to be very clear to all our readers.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:29 am 
Well, when i tried to lower my dosage i became extremely psychotic. What i mean is, i had this rage inside of me that was just pure insanity. I would literally feel like hurting somebody. Im NOT saying this to scare anyone. Im only speaking of this hoping to help the poster of this thread. If i had my guess, the meaness is probably from when you tried to lower your dosage. Im not really sure how to get around this other than to slow down some. I hope this helps. ~PEACE~


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:43 am 
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I apologize if I was unclear. I do believe withdrawals from too big a drop in dosage CAN cause things such as irritability. No doubt about it. Withdrawals wreak havoc on our brain and body. What I meant previously is that simply being on suboxone (and stable) is not necessarily the cause of said irritability.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:54 am 
I beleive that Sub makes me irritable. It's the same kind of feeling I had at the end of my active addiction, when the pills didn't get me high anymore. I would take more and more trying to chase that high, and I just ended up irritable.
Now, I think that my tolerance has gone way down because I went off Sub after a car accident, then I went off on my own a few months later. Now when I take sub, because it's so strong of an opiate, I get that "high dose" irritability.
But that's just me...in your case it could be the tapering. I guess everyone's situation is unique.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:14 pm 
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I have my own opinion on this issue. I think that when we were taking massive doses of pills or heroin we numbed/blocked a lot of our feelings. Yes of couse we got irritated when we didn't have enough pills, but when I did life was good{or at least what an addit believes to be good}.

Now we stop taking pills/heroin and start subs and we begin to feel everyday stresses a whole lot more. Then when we procede to decrease our dose of sub we have to deal with these issues even more. Decreasing more quickly will cause us to realize these feelings even more. Many will say that when on subs our feelings and emotions are the same on and off subs but I have to disagree a little. I believe we they are a great deal less numbed on subs but they are still some what numbed. I am noticing this more and more with each decrease.

so in my opinion you are more iritable because of your decrease in subs and I think its a huge step that you can realize it and talk about it freely. I think thats why subs are so great it helps us gradualy feel and deal with with everyday life stresses again.

Your doing a great job give your boyfriend a big hug and kiss and be honest with him about how your feeling and why :D


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:57 pm 
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I guess I've been fortunate in that my mood has remained relatively stable while on suboxone, even when tapering.....I think one of the keys is stability. Taking the same dose each day, at the same time.

On a side note, by the way, just a word on Union Pensions: My brother in law is retired from the Teamster's union. He gets a pension check each month. It comes to him from and is written by the Teamster's Union. No two retirement plans are the same.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:31 pm 
Wow... I do remember the rage I had also. I did get out of control with rage while on suboxone.. When I lowered my dose it did help me for a while but it soon came back. I also experience severe depression and just feeling "blank". No sex drive at all. I think way too many have the same symptom to deni it. Par the course..

I did talk to my MD about it. Of course he said it had nothing to do with suboxone. HE wanted to add a benzo till the antidepressant kicked in... I refused both. I talk to a few from My meetings that was on BMT and they shared with me the same symptoms. I think that for me the suboxone did contribute to these feelings. But, Once I had a reason for it I leaned how to deal with it. Not that the rage/depression/lack of ability to preform sexually went away but I was able to deal with it better. Also when I began weaning down to doses like .5, then .25 and so on.. the rage increase so bad. The depression increase and got to where I could care less about sex.. so the lack of it didn't affect me.. maybe my wife but not me.

So.. I do think sub has a lot to do with it. At first I thought it was because I was weaning wrong or too fast.. don't know how I could of slowed up anymore then I did. On each drop it would take sometimes 5 days before I felt the drop. I would wait till I felt totally "normal" again before I would do another drop. This was a long and drawn out process.. I did not want to feel wd at all. IT was why I went to suboxone in the first place. I soon learn that there was no way around it. I did last about 6 mos before I surcome to the cravings.. the rage at this point diminished to pure depression. This is why I now don't think that suboxone heals the brain at all. Lets face it, when we put chemicals in our system they create a imbalance. Our brains are always looking for that proper balance. there is no get out of jail free card but Suboxone did buy me time. I would not recommend adding another chemical to the mix... we all could end up on a mountain of pills. One combating the other.

My wife says (who suffers with PMS or something like it) that the knowledge of why we are in the rage will help settle the soul and much more controllabe.... for me she was right. She had to point out many times my outburst... to calm down.. it took practice.
Good luck.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:12 pm 
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I thought I posted this already, but the only evidence that sub causes rage is purely anecdotal. There are a myriad of reasons a person can have anger and rage. Like not having our DOC for one! Not having drugs to drown out the misery, depression, and anger, which is what it did for us. Suboxone is no more likely to cause rage than any other opiate. If anyone has studies to support that it does, please post them. Because it's WAY more likely to be emotional and/or psychological. Just sayin'....

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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