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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:52 am 
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Hello. I suppose the title doesn't really ehh... suffice? I'll also be doing a very brief intro because I'm new here.

Well actually... I think the context I'll be providing here will cover most of it.

I'm a 21 year old girl living on the East Coast. I identify as queer, as bisexual. I'm short, with long hair. I've been addicted to opiates since I was 15 because I had an ulcer the size of a meteor in my stomach and I couldn't eat for a couple weeks, so they put me on Ultram.

One thing lead to another. I wound up being placed on Suboxone at age 16 for mostly Ultram addiction (that's right, a 16-year-old on subbies for Tramadol addiction). We kind of exaggerated and said that I also recreationally used (and overtook) percocet and norco, because I was 15-16 and verrrrrrrrrrry naive, my advocate was as well, we did not know that Buprenorphine was a potent narcotic technically 40x the strength of Morphine.

But anyway. Here's the kicker. When I first took it, it was so strong I vomited, I was couch-locked for hours. I felt like I was going to die. But slowly, I became accustomed to it.

It was like god to me. It got me so, so high. But not the way other things did. I could snap out of the nod in order to focus on my schoolwork, my social life, dating etc. The milestones in a teenager's life. Eventually, a young college student's life. But what initially was overly-strong hell for me became a euphoric substance which magically somehow also allowed me to function to my full potential.

And I didn't want to use anything else because Suboxone (up until that point) had become the best thing I'd ever known. What more could you want? I "cheated" sometimes and would take maybe one or two 5mg oxycodones a MONTH, tops, but otherwise, I was completely sober. And half the times I cheated with 'trams or oxy's, it was for legitimate breakthrough pain. (though sometimes just for fun, because I had moments where I was weak.)

And then at 19 I failed a random drug test, got yoinked off it, and my insurance benefits got cut off 2 months (or so) later.

Afterwards, I developed debilitating abdominal pain, and in the past year I've developed hereditary migraines and the rarer-but-hellishly-worse hereditary cluster headaches, in addition to CVS.

I tried rehab, but I lapsed into a psychotic state, and between that and the excruciating abdominal pain, I relapsed on oxycodone after 2 and a half months of absolute sobriety.

So here we are now.

My addiction's taken a landslide over the past 2 years, and before I knew it, I was well-exceeding 120-180mg of oxycodone a day, in addition to (lower dose- 30mg a day at most) Methadone.

Additionally, about 5 months ago, I snorted my first oxy, and my addiction got much, much worse from there, because I'd snort one and eat one, so I could have my high and have the duration, too.

I'd do a pill (or a few) every hour, every couple hours on a good day. Shit went south reeeeal quick.

It got worse and worse and worse, and shows no signs of stopping.

So I met somebody and.... To make a long story short, I procured some Suboxone. I would see a doctor or go to a clinic, but I have no money. My family has no money.

Anyways,

I genuinely thought it would save my ass and give me a second chance at life, like it did when I was a youngen.

......As a minor detail, in the past..... 8 months or so, when I run out early, I do the loperamide detox. The one where you megadose with precursors (I won't go into detail). That one.

Almost died from it a couple times.

But anyways. When I got the Suboxone strips, I tried a quarter, then a third, and finally a full half strip, and felt NOTHING. NOTHING.

But I blamed it on the fact that I'd lope detoxed the night before. "Oh well," I thought. "Surely I'll feel that old Suboxone feeling tomorrow. Surely it will work, then."

NOPE. Nope nope nope nope nope.

And it still hasn't.

And I'm very depressed, very isolated. And this Suboxone seems like a useless piece of shit, a waste of time.

I know that only the fiendest of fiends would think this way, but it's akin to falling out of love with someone.

I cringed writing that, but it's the truth. I told it to another addict friend, he said his heart broke hearing me say that. I think in our heart of hearts, we've all felt that way at least once.

Also I know that getting "high" or copping a euphoric feeling off of Suboxone is *not the point*, far from the point, in fact, but still. /It's an incentive to stay sober/. /It's an incentive to not go back to other things/. It improved my depression and psychosis so much (back when I was on it for 2 years) that I got tapered off most of my psychiatric medication because Suboxone and Vyvanse (mostly) had my mental dysfunction under control.

I was something close to normal for 2 years.

Now I'm a mess and my one-time wonderdrug crapped out on me and isn't doing jackshit. l:

So in short, I ask you all collectively, what gives??????

Why isn't it working?????

I know my tolerance to opioids is probably 20x higher than it was when I was a fresh-faced little kid put on the stuff, but no increase in tolerance should be able to beat out something 40x the strength of Morphine, right?

I know it's a "partial agonist", but that's because it antagonizes the kappa-receptor, which is responsible for analgesia, but also hallucinations, dissociation, and dysphoria,

So the fact that it antagonizes kappa makes it.... Almost /more/ of an opioid than traditional ones. (at least, some say so. it's debatable.)

Is it the Naloxone? My tolerance? Am I just an idiot and making some obvious mistake that I'm overlooking?

PLEASE HELP!

I know I'm new here, but this is devastating to me. I was so gung-ho about getting clean once and for all, because I wanted to be through with oxy's, even after I'm able to get more. I don't want them. I'm done.

But I'm disabled and sick and need pain relief as well. But I don't want this addiction anymore, I want to get clean and stable.

And now all I want to do is get high. I know that's counter-productive and is a shitty quitter attitude, maybe, but I'm shocked and disappointed and I don't have faith in Suboxone anymore.

Has anyone had a similar "disenchanting" experience with Suboxone before? Did you stick with it anyways? What happens if you do?

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for reading this far. I know it's kind of long-winded and verbose. With love, -S


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:55 pm 
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Hi Disenchanted and welcome! Ok so I read a couple of things in your post. My best guess is that maybe your tolerance is too high for the Suboxone to be effective. You said that you were doing oxy and methadone this go round instead of Tramadol, thats a huge step up. Your tolerance may need to come down before the Suboxone will work.
That's my best guess.
I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will be along shortly.
Hang in there!
-Duke


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:52 pm 
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Hi Dis, and welcome here. Reading your story it sounds like the Suboxone is doing exactly what it should be doing. You're not supposed to feel high from it but we all know it does give some patients a little buzz. I'm not even sure of the percentages of those who feel it and those who don't. The point is, you're not using it the way it was intended and you know that. But does it stop the cravings for opiates at all? If not, then yes, your tolerance is way too high.

The best possible outcome of this would be for you to see a Suboxone doctor who knows what they're doing. Meaning, get you stabilized on a dose that stops the cravings and makes you feel normal, not high. Then you can begin the recovery phase of learning to live w/o mind altering drugs. You are way too young to even be on it. A human being matures at age 27 so you're still growing. And during that process you need to be clean and sober. IMO at least.

Your system sounds a lot like mine. I swear I was born an addict/alcoholic. From the very first drink and drug I knew I was different from my other friends. It runs in my family so I know where it came from. Regardless, an addict either finds sobriety or dies trying. The middle part is very bad and I don't wish that on you. Please seek some professional help and get your addiction under control before it's too late.

That's my 2ยข for what it's worth.

rule

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:31 pm 
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As earlier posters wrote, the buprenorphine is doing what it is supposed to do. It all comes down to tolerance; when you were on only tramadol, buprenorphine was comparatively strong, and made you 'high'. But compared to a high dose of oxycodone, buprenorphine is weak, and 'feels' weak. It is actually more like an antagonist than an agonist to someone in your position.

Your comment about it being 40 times stronger than morphine is not really the full story. Morphine is a weak opioid in the first place... but because of the ceiling to buprenorphine's effects, at high doses, morphine becomes STRONGER than buprenorphine.

You never should have been started on buprenorphine-- in part because your tolerance was so low, and in part because you were too young to take any real responsibility for your addiction. I don't know what would have been better.... but a person getting 'high' off buprenorphine only leads to negative stereotypes about a life-saving medication.

At this point you seem to be searching for a euphoric state of mind that does not exist, at least not in the long run. I don't know if TMZ is accurate or not in claiming that Prince needed opioids in order to perform.... but many, many other brilliant people have proven that opioids cannot be 'tamed' for that purpose. At some point, you need to accept life on life's terms.... because the only alternative is giving up the one life that you've been given. And honestly-- a drugged-up 'euphoric' existence is a lonely, miserable way to go through life.

I wish you well.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:31 pm 
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Thank you for the replies, everyone! I don't know if I agree that I'm just looking for euphoria, but I'm open to the idea that maybe it's so, and my judgement's just clouded. My main issue is it isn't controlling my pain or cravings, whereas it did spectacularly before.

So it's more the shell-shock of it hardly being the same thing to me at all that it once was.

I agree that getting a doctor's supervision would absolutely be best. I hope I can afford it sometime soon.

Also maybe it is my tolerance afterall. I really hope I can see a doctor soon to get this sorted out.

I'll keep you guys updated. I'm open to whatever other viewpoints or advice there is, or if you're in agreeance, you can chime in and tell me so! I'm open to whatever feedback anyone thinks will be helpful to me, especially since I'm new on this forum.

Thank you and much love, S


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:09 pm 
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Also. Just to clarify. I think someone said something along the lines of, my viewpoint paints Suboxone in a bad light.

I'm not going to say that it isn't right because an opinion is an opinion, opinions cannot be right or wrong, and people have them for a reason.

I do believe that it has advantages over Methadone, if you're serious about getting clean, because as I know all too well, Methadone can be abused. Also it (methadone) quits causing euphoria quick, so if you're on Methadone and abusing it, you'll probably increase your dose to make up for it, and getting into 200-300mgs territory is basically suicide.

Also, Suboxone saves lives because it somewhat blocks other opiates used with it, and if you don't adulterate your tablets or strips, the lack of needle transmission prevents blood-borne disease transmission. Disease is a huge part of why we drop like flies, so even just cutting out that ONE aspect of our addiction is incredibly, INCREDIBLY life-saving.

But, I think every experience is worthy of being shared, and maybe mine is a cautionary tale. If sharing the sad details of my experience(s) with addiction can get me life-saving advice or help one other person out there, suffering, perhaps lurking the board? With similar experiences, who never would've thought they'd have answers for their addiction obstacles and pitfalls, I think it's worth it.

And I do consider it a cautionary tale.

For what it's worth, my mother thinks I was put on Suboxone waaaaaaaaay too young, she beat herself up for it for a while, because she insisted that I have it, back before there was a lot of information about it on the internet.

I remember it like yesterday.... There were a couple personal accounts of experience with Suboxone, mostly on Bluelight or Erowid, but the rest was either Buprenorphine OR Naloxone.

And my psychiatrist (according to ratemd) quit giving Suboxone. Personally, I believe it's because she put too many people on it who.... Maybe didn't qualify? Maybe should've been in rehab? At least support groups??

And back-pedalled like hellllllllllllllll. Apparently she drug-tests every new patient now even though she doesn't help with addiction anymore.

I could see the back-pedalling before she even took me off of it. I could tell she knew she fucked up, but at the time, as a 19-year-old, now, I didn't understand why. I couldn't understand why. I think the DEA was reviewing her or something, she hinted at it.

Anyway. I'm tangenting.

I do agree with the point that at the time- When I was 16- Suboxone (or any opiate addiction recovery-aide) or no Suboxone- I was NOT emotionally-mature enough to take responsibility or accountability for my addiction.

I barely understood what was going on with me. I still don't. When I steal pills, I feel possessed, like it's an impulse I can't understand.

Still, I feel so guilty that tears stream down my face, I know it's wrong, oh, so wrong, but I couldn't tell you why I have this god-awful impulse. It feels like a curse.

The problem is, I know that addiction is a MEDICAL DISEASE, and no other disease (except HIV, maybe) has the same stigma as addiction, but I also believe you cannot conquer it until something clicks with you, and you're able and willing to take responsibility for the years you wasted, the mistakes you made.

And I don't know where the line is, or even how to locate the line.

I've been on the fence for about a year now (certainly in the last 3 months or so) over whether I should re-enter rehab.

I'm.... Scared that my chronic pain will make no pain medicine hard for me to stick with, if not impossible,

But all I know is that what I'm doing RIGHT NOW is not working. I tried Suboxone, I'm not sure if it will work for me again in the long run, but I'm on my last strip, and I'm not being medically supervised. Although I didn't enjoy my run with it this time, I didn't use anything else with it (except for emergency Valium, Tylenol, and Gabapentin to control nerve pain and sweat/chills) I'm sad to see it run low, because at least some part of me genuinely IS done with oxycodone and other pills. I didn't get what I wanted from it, but I got what I know I need right now, it granted me a little slice of self-control that's very hard to come by when you're an opioid addict not in full-recovery.

With love and appreciation, S

(btw- I'm not comfortable putting my full first name even though it's my chosen name.... because it's a little bit rarer of a name. what generally do you guys go by around here?? do you choose a pseudonym for yourself, or???)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:09 pm 
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Yes, most everyone here uses some sort of fake name to keep their anonymity so just stick with disenchanted. We can call you Dis! Or whatever you choose, it doesn't matter.

With me, my reputation is too valuable to be compromised by the public knowing I'm on Suboxone. I have no problem with telling others that I'm an alcoholic. Funny thing, but there is still a stigma attached to being on opiate replacement therapy. (ORT)

Well, you're at a stalemate. Maybe you just need a larger dose of Suboxone to get you to where there isn't anymore cravings. Then stabilize and begin the process of living w/o the mind altering chemicals. Can you do that? You can also call all the Suboxone doctors and see if anyone of them has an opening for the one spot given for assistance. Meaning, I think the program is still in place, but normally every Suboxone doctor has a slot for a person who cannot afford the treatment and medication. They get assistance from the manufacturer for one year. That's it. One year. IMO, that is long enough for a clean addict to get their shit together and find a decent job. Then they can be a paying customer after that. Hopefully you can find a job that gives medical insurance and then maybe find a doctor who accepts it. In my 6 years on Suboxone I've had 2 doctors who have taken my BCBS insurance as paid in full. Both are and were my GP. All other specialists like my Orthopedist, etc; knows I'm on it. I don't lie to any medical professionals about me being on Suboxone.

So keep us updated on how you're doing Dis. I truly hope you find success in getting off the addiction cycle and into a recovery program.

rule

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