It is currently Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:44 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:44 am 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More

Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:03 am
Posts: 205
I was reading a very long thread here about how many people felt that their personalities changed while they are/were taking suboxone.

It got me to thinking about my own reasons to stop suboxone (very aggressively using liquid taper from .5mg currently)

The first year of sub treatment I felt great. It bought me some time to get my shit together, and to stop obsessing over where to get more pills for fear of WD. The relief I got from having that obsession to use literally saved my life. I wouldn't trade my suboxone experience for anything.

In fact, during this entire first year I wouldn't said I planned to take subs for the rest of my life.

Then somewhere just past the 1year mark, things began changing for me, much like others have described the way they began to feel.

I had no desire for a social life or a sex life. My poor husband bless his heart is still sticking with me. I'm almost done w my taper, I see light at the end of the tunnel.

I wanted to go to work, get my clients taken care of, and go back home. I had no motivation for regular things like shopping or listening to music or being around friends and family. I just wanted to stay home and literally do nothing.

At that point, i didnt see myself javing a successful life without the sub, so i pushed myself to start getting more physicsl activity to get the endorphins healing. Started a pretty serious hot yoga practice, as well as a regular home yoga practice. As i felt stronger and stronger through these, i begin to feel deep within myself that i could have a new life...without subs. This is what drove me to begin my taper from 16mg.

Ive written more about my ongoing taper in the stopping suboxone section.

As I get lower in lower on my dose (now at .5mg liquid) these feelings of happiness and hope are starting to return. I actually had lunch with a friend the other day, out in a restaurant.. Something I had no desire to do previously. I went to a big bday dinner for a client, also out at a restaurant, which was a big step for me.

Slowly my sex drive is coming back and ive been working hard to get my husband to enjoy spending time with me again so that we may just naturally ease back into a normal sex life.

Each day that passes I feel the apathy slip away. I feel calm, I feel content. These are feelings I am so thankful for, and so impressed with my own body/brain telling me "its time".

So tell me, what made you all want to stop sub treatment?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:01 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:03 pm
Posts: 1544
I've written this before, but I'll write it again because the stakes are so high. There is so much misinformation about buprenorphine that people literally die-- sometimes from getting incorrect information.

I see people every day who struggle with apathy, loss of sex drive, fatigue, and social isolation. Some of the people with those complaints are taking buprenorphine, and some aren't. I see absolutely no correlation between buprenorphine and those 'symptoms'.

If anyone reading this post wanders to psychcentral or any other psych-related site, you will read people describing the same 'symptoms'. I don't really consider them symptoms, though, as they are more common than not. As we go from high school to early career to marriage and children, things don't change as much as when we were younger. Relationships become stagnant unless they are constantly worked on. Sleep becomes more difficult. Joints start to stiffen and ache. And in the absence of conscious effort, we lose interest in new experiences.

That is just life. People on buprenorphine sometimes blame it on buprenorphine. People who aren't on buprenorphine blame it on something else-- or sometimes have the insight to realize that it is just the process that EVERYONE goes through in life, if not for constant efforts to stay active and interested.

The thing that always impresses me the most is the selective memory that people have, especially about negative experiences associated with opioid dependence. Look at the experience of a person who comes to buprenorphine---- usually years of chaos, damaged relationships, lies to others and more importantly to ourselves.... then on buprenorphine there is the 'pink halo' where all of the chaos fades away and life seems wonderful.

But then over time, people seems to forget what the chaos was like. They start saying that 'things were so much better before buprenorphine'-- which boggles my mind, because I can go back and read my chart, and see that before buprenorphine they were desperate, lonely, depressed, crazy.... I saw them when they presented, often crying, begging for help-- sometimes after spending thousands of dollars on failed treatments. But after a year on buprenorphine, it is as if none of that ever happened. 'why did I start buprenorphine?' they say. 'I could have just stopped opioids on my own!'

The truth is, they couldn't stop opioids. The truth is that life totally sucks when you are stuck on opioid agonists. Every day is a desperate search for relief. Money is tight. The lies get harder and harder to keep track of.

The truth is that buprenorphine allows for life to return to normal. But normal life isn't 'fun' by itself. Enjoying life requires the behaviors described in the original post-- whether or not the person is taking buprenorphine, or any other medication.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:44 am 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More

Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:03 am
Posts: 205
Suboxdoc,
I couldn't totally agree with you more. I believe that life takes work. Lots of persistant hard work. Perhaps I should've clarified my position more.

I do not think my life was better before starting buprenorphine. In fact, it was much like you've described I'm the above post and totally chaotic. It was (pardony language) a complete shit storm.

The year and a half ive spent on suboxone (now at the end of my taper) gave me a chance to get away from old patterns/habits and start to develop new habits and patterns... Healthy ones. The amount of positive changes I have (and continue to make) have NOT been easy by any means. But they are real, and they are major and I don't believe I would be here if it weren't for the suboxone. (And this forum, and you, and your blogs)! Its all been such a huge support!

Suboxone has been a fantastic tool in making those changes. In fact, as ive stated before in other posts, i am very PRO-SUB, and i do believe many people should stay on sub maintenance indefinitely, if not for life. And who knows, i may be one of those people.

But i sure would like to try now that ive come this far with my taper, and i feel have a solid life. Moved to a new part of town, cut ties with all using people from the past, in a strong solid, supportive marriage, running a new business, have a serious hot yoga practice, regular home practice, and running for exercise and eating healthy. Not to mentiom, for a year and a half abstinence of smoking, drinking and ALL other drugs. If my life even remotely starts heading down that path again, back on subs I will go.

I am sorry if my post came across as anti-sub, that was not my intention, Dr.

My reasons for wanting off suboxone are many, and personal, and by no means would I ever encourage someone to quit their medication. That has to be their call. It has to come from within,not from some external pressure.

Anyway, I apologize if anyone felt I was spreading information trying to encourage people to get off sub because that was not my intention at all.

Mostly I was just asking what other sub stoppers motivations/reasons were for wanting to stop the sub's.


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:58 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:50 am
Posts: 16
Why did I stop? It was time. I know the doc above says it doesn't make you more isolated. That a lot of it is in our head. And he may be right. I'm a little more social now than I was before, on Suboxone.

But the truth of it is, I never could really KNOW that until I was off of it. Being on suboxone impacted my perception of everything. It was always, "this is how I see this, on suboxone."

Now, it's "this is how I see this." Period. And that makes all the difference. Life is still difficult, but I'm dealing with it. Not suboxone. I'm not sure if I could really ever have moved forward, without first removing the fact that I was still dependent on a substance from my life. Off of it, I feel responsible, I feel immensely proud, I feel like I finally put an insane chapter of my life behind me. I've dealt with the feelings of shame, with the feelings of inadequacy. I've overcome them, and found that I have something to love.

See, it's like a flying plane. When you're using hardcore, your plane is in the air, flying high. On suboxone, your plane comes down, but it doesn't land. It's flying low. But low or high, you're still flying. You still depend.

Suboxone is a godsend, no doubt. I'm not sure if I'd have the strength to do this without Suboxone.

Now I know when I wake up late in the morning, it's me, not suboxone. I know when I don't feel like working, it's me, not the suboxone. Or when I don't feel like going out that night, it's me, not suboxone.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:51 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More

Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:03 am
Posts: 205
Jabberwocky,
Thanks for taking the time out of your day to post. I really feel like you hit the nail on the head with what you said. Especially about never knowing for certain if what you were feeling/perceiving was actually real or because of Suboxone.

That's exactly why I'm choosing to taper off of it, I just didn't have the right words or thoughts to articulate that.

I agree with every single thing you said in your post actually.. Thank you for that.

At what dose did you end up stopping?


As I get lower and lower on my taper I'm beginning to wonder if its even doing anything for me anymore or just giving me some energy in the morning and then wearing off? Today I took a liquid dose of .3mg.

Thanks again for being so candid and congratulations on your accomplishments!

-fishy


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:35 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:46 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Alabama
My experience is quite the opposite. When I was on morphine and oxycodone I felt very muted and subdued emotionally, mentally, and socially, with no desire to go out and be with others. Now that I've begun Suboxone treatment (about 6-1/2 weeks now) I feel the "normal" feelings, emotions, and desires returning. No more monotone nature. I believe this is the more common experience with opioid use, and is one of the many reasons for receiving Suboxone treatment....at least that's my experience.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:48 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More

Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:03 am
Posts: 205
Morphing,
Very interesting... At the beginning of my using full agonist opiates it made every day things seem more fun and easier to engage in. Almost like I tricked myself into thinking I couldn't feel normal emotions without pills. Then the last year or so I was in active addiction it switched around and became opposite for me, where I didn't want to socialize or do anything ever except eat pills and smoke cigs. Then the desire to engage and enjoy regular life returned again with the help of suboxone treatment. So I was in the same boat as you. But then my feelings about it changed over time...

But I still think it's a life saving medication and I'm glad that your treatment is going well! If mine had stayed how I felt the first year of treatment, I may have never tapered off...

But I don't think it probably has anything to do with suboxone, I think the change we think we feel is just due to life. I read a Dr Junig post once that said people who are not on suboxone claim many of the same symptoms over time. It's just dealing with life...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:12 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:51 am
Posts: 47
suboxdoc wrote:
I've written this before, but I'll write it again because the stakes are so high. There is so much misinformation about buprenorphine that people literally die-- sometimes from getting incorrect information.

I see people every day who struggle with apathy, loss of sex drive, fatigue, and social isolation. Some of the people with those complaints are taking buprenorphine, and some aren't. I see absolutely no correlation between buprenorphine and those 'symptoms'.

If anyone reading this post wanders to psychcentral or any other psych-related site, you will read people describing the same 'symptoms'. I don't really consider them symptoms, though, as they are more common than not. As we go from high school to early career to marriage and children, things don't change as much as when we were younger. Relationships become stagnant unless they are constantly worked on. Sleep becomes more difficult. Joints start to stiffen and ache. And in the absence of conscious effort, we lose interest in new experiences.

That is just life. People on buprenorphine sometimes blame it on buprenorphine. People who aren't on buprenorphine blame it on something else-- or sometimes have the insight to realize that it is just the process that EVERYONE goes through in life, if not for constant efforts to stay active and interested.

The thing that always impresses me the most is the selective memory that people have, especially about negative experiences associated with opioid dependence. Look at the experience of a person who comes to buprenorphine---- usually years of chaos, damaged relationships, lies to others and more importantly to ourselves.... then on buprenorphine there is the 'pink halo' where all of the chaos fades away and life seems wonderful.

But then over time, people seems to forget what the chaos was like. They start saying that 'things were so much better before buprenorphine'-- which boggles my mind, because I can go back and read my chart, and see that before buprenorphine they were desperate, lonely, depressed, crazy.... I saw them when they presented, often crying, begging for help-- sometimes after spending thousands of dollars on failed treatments. But after a year on buprenorphine, it is as if none of that ever happened. 'why did I start buprenorphine?' they say. 'I could have just stopped opioids on my own!'

The truth is, they couldn't stop opioids. The truth is that life totally sucks when you are stuck on opioid agonists. Every day is a desperate search for relief. Money is tight. The lies get harder and harder to keep track of.

The truth is that buprenorphine allows for life to return to normal. But normal life isn't 'fun' by itself. Enjoying life requires the behaviors described in the original post-- whether or not the person is taking buprenorphine, or any other medication.


Thank you for this input, Dr. Junig. It makes sense, and really puts things into perspective...at least for me. I'm 27 years old, and in kind of a weird limbo stage in my life where I am trying to figure out who I am, what I want, and where I'm going to end up. I'm assuming, when one gets the idea into their head that Suboxone must have negative consequences, it can be easy to blame struggles, hardships, feelings on buprenorphine...when in fact it most likely has nothing to do with any of it whatsoever. I knew all of this deep down before I think, but it's nice hearing this logic from you to reaffirm, especially when there is SO MUCH misinformation out there about this drug.

_________________
Crystal ❤

"He will cover you with his feathers, and under His wings you will find refuge" - Psalm 91:4
–Robert Green Ingersoll


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:18 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 am
Posts: 4133
crystal13 wrote:

Thank you for this input, Dr. Junig. It makes sense, and really puts things into perspective...at least for me. I'm 27 years old, and in kind of a weird limbo stage in my life where I am trying to figure out who I am, what I want, and where I'm going to end up. I'm assuming, when one gets the idea into their head that Suboxone must have negative consequences, it can be easy to blame struggles, hardships, feelings on buprenorphine...when in fact it most likely has nothing to do with any of it whatsoever. I knew all of this deep down before I think, but it's nice hearing this logic from you to reaffirm, especially when there is SO MUCH misinformation out there about this drug.


Crystal, you hit the nail on the head! There is so much negativity for addicts, so much stigma for being on a maintenance medication, that it's almost impossible not to feel like you've done something incredibly positive by getting off the medication. And that colors the rest of your thinking! You'll notice that some folks who get off bupe report a honeymoon period after they detox fully from bupe. Music sounds better, their emotions are heightened, their sex drive is in overdrive, etc. Then within a few months the realities of life come crashing back.

Please don't mistake me. I'm not saying that I think it's impossible to feel differently/better after going off bupe. What I'm saying is that there is such negativity associated with being on a maintenance med, and such positivity for getting off of it from many corners of our society, that it would be downright strange if one DIDN'T feel a boost after going off. That boost may come in the form of feeling more social, more energetic, more pride in oneself, etc.

None of us are immune to the power of perception caused by societal pressure. I would liken it to losing weight in our thin-obsessed society. You get a boost from the public kudos, the ability to do more, possibly more sexual attention. However, you realize that you still have the same problems you had before. You're still in debt or you still develop anxiety in social situations or you still have a "Debbie Downer" personality that turns people off. Not only do you find that keeping the weight off is hugely difficult, but you figure out that all the problems you expected to be fixed by your weight loss aren't fixed. Relapse can be very difficult to avoid. Think of all of the yo-yo dieters you know.

That is why tapering off ends up not working for a lot of people and leads to relapse. The problems you expect to be solved by getting off your maintenance meds aren't solved. Plus you are dealing with the hugely powerful cravings caused by the permanent changes made in your brain by addiction. I think it's important for addicts on bupe to get to the point where they almost don't care if they are on bupe or off of it. In other words, the addict is happy with themselves "as is", and is not responding to external pressure from family, society, or anyone else. I know I'm describing a perfect world that we don't actually live in. But couldn't we at least made a pledge that we won't try to influence another addict in treatment as long as the treatment is working?

I hope nobody is offended by my opinions. I just agree with Crystal and Dr. Junig that our perceptions are shaded so much by outside negativity.

Amy

_________________
Done is better than perfect!


Top
 Profile  
 
   
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:33 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More

Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:03 am
Posts: 205
Oh my god...Amy, everything you wrote was EXACTLY what I was feeling on the day where I was a huge horrible grump the other day.

It all started that my hubby and mother were saying what a huge wonderful accomplishment it was that I was off "that drug" and that just set me off.... It got me all pissed off about stigma, and how why should it be looked at as something so celebratory to be finished with a medication that MOST people who have not experienced addiction or treatment know actually nothing about. Even though I am proud that I made it through the jump and am no longer medication dependent..... It doesn't mean that all my problems are fixed and that my addiction is cured.

My mother actually said to me, "nobody has to ever find out about your drug thing and being on thay OTHER drug and all of that...That part of your life is behind you now and if it ever comes up just deny it ever happened."

WHAT..THE...FUUUUHHH...!?!!?! REALLY ?! OK so I'll just brush it all under the rug and pretend I'm not STILL an addict because my mom doesn't want the stigma of having an addict as a daughter.

I'm a grown ass woman and I will be the one to decide with whom I share my life. What if it does come up? And what if it comes up as an opportunity to save someone life by sharing my story/experience?? Then she just wants me to deny deny deny.... Bitch.

And if that wasnt stigmatizing enough, what about the fact that even though my active addiction is in remission at this point and my suboxone treatment is complete for now... What about the fact I'm an addict and I have a disease I need to be aware of every day of my life to make sure that I stay in remission, stay in recovery. And I now need to live my life in a way that is conducive to staying clean. So no, I can't just sweep it under the rug and deny that it ever existed.

Sorry I went off topic. But I sat with this anger for the better part of two days. And Amy's post is so right on in describing all the things that make me angry about society and how they view and stigmatize addiction.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:39 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 879
Location: Wisconsin
Wow, Amy, just WOW! Very insightful comments, so very well written and so on target. I really was just about expecting to see you say you took those paragraphs from a book! Really well written, very on target and as I said incredibly insightful!

Very much agree with your thoughts as well tfisher. How can people ever get well and we start to try to fix this epidemic of addiction with such a cover of embarrsment over it? Addiction really is the modern day AIDS. Imagine what it was like to be diagnosed with HiV in the 1980s. We don't have to. We suffer from addiction in 2015.

Great comments from both of you. Totally raising the bar around here! Keep up the great work.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:22 am 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:46 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Alabama
donh wrote:
Wow, Amy, just WOW! Very insightful comments, so very well written and so on target. I really was just about expecting to see you say you took those paragraphs from a book! Really well written, very on target and as I said incredibly insightful!

Very much agree with your thoughts as well tfisher. How can people ever get well and we start to try to fix this epidemic of addiction with such a cover of embarrsment over it? Addiction really is the modern day AIDS. Imagine what it was like to be diagnosed with HiV in the 1980s. We don't have to. We suffer from addiction in 2015.

Great comments from both of you. Totally raising the bar around here! Keep up the great work.


DITTO! I agree with Donh, that was an excellent post, insightful, and so well written. Thanks Amy!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:32 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 am
Posts: 4133
Can I first just tell you guys, fish, don, and morphing, that you have just made my day?? It is so nice to hear when something I've said resonates and makes sense to my peers! Thank you for expressing that! I have to say that it's a very timely thing for me to hear. Not only did I get taken to task for being negative earlier this week, but yesterday I had a skype interview for a graduate program I've applied to. I will hear if I get in sometime in the coming week. If I don't get in, at least I can say that three intelligent people thought I said something useful! :)

Fishy, I'm sure that your mom did not know how hurtful her statement was to you. As if your life experiences are so shameful that you have to hide them. Please remember to be very proud of yourself for being in recovery, whatever stage you are in! I understand why you were so angry about that! That statement says so much more about your mother than it does about you. Not that she's a terrible person, but that she truly doesn't understand what your addiction has been like for you. We do. We understand. Keep your chin up!

Amy

_________________
Done is better than perfect!


Top
 Profile  
 
   
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:30 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More

Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:03 am
Posts: 205
Amy,
Congrats on getting an interview and I'm sure it went awesome! You are extremely articulate and intelligent... I don't even know what all that b.s. was even about earlier this week but I did read the entire ordeal..I didn't even think you were negative or out of line at all... Sorry you had to deal with that. Nothing is worse when you're doing your job the proper way and someone gets all weird about it. Ick.

Hope your week is going better though, and you consistently write posts that are right on the money... Your insight and compassion make you the perfect candidate to work in the addiction field... Couldn't think of a better person to be a moderator:)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:02 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:46 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Alabama
That's great news (the interview, not the taken to task). We'll all be rooting for you, and want to know how it goes. Your intelligence is evident from the content of your posts, and I've never taken anything you said as "negative" or confrontational. Your intent was clear, which is why I and others tried to reinforce your comments. The most important thing is that you're doing a lot to help others in recovery, and we greatly appreciate it.
Thanks,
Morphing


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:56 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:39 am
Posts: 54
I know its been a couple monthssince this post but I want to say that I personally feel that it is a huge deal to be completely off opiates. I dont think being on bupe is wrong, but I feel that it is better to be off. And not because of what society thinks, though that cannot be discounted, but because it takes strength to be totally drug free. I feel like Dr. Junig is minimizing the rewards of being sub free. I dont know what kind of couselor he or she is but it looks like she deals with addicts. In which case I think that aftwr her patients get off suboxone they probably stop seeing her. So how would she or he know the difference before and after sub? And to truly make a solid assertion about this one would need a study. I feel like he or she has her own agenda here with how sure she sounds about the issue, that being suboxone is just another med. Agenda is an overly strong word to use here but I hope whoever reads this understands. Personally, I think there is no way a personality is unaffected by taking this med. No way. Biochemically it makes no sense. Once I get off this drug I myself will know how its affected me. It saved my life but I am ready to move on and be a person who is not on any opiates. Its not so black or white people. Its a complex issue but at the root of it there is no denying we are adding something to our brains which is useful and also not so useful once that time comes.

Edited by Amy to change divisive wording.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:33 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:48 pm
Posts: 1315
Ill tell you how "she" would know. Dr jeff Junig founded, owns this site. He is an addiction Dr, a Phd. ,and a Buprenorphine expert. He simply is. For me and many others he is the for most leader in Sub treatment with hundreds of patients to use as data, he knows how outcomes are generated.

There is to much here to type about this man but I would suggest the you or anyone reading this thread go to the top of the forum and read "My Story".. he also is an addict himself......

Just a suggestion. ..


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:26 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 am
Posts: 4133
Here's a link to his story:

My Story part 1: http://suboxonetalkzone.com/clean-enoug ... -my-story/

My Story part 2: http://suboxonetalkzone.com/clean-enoug ... continued/

My Story part 3: http://suboxonetalkzone.com/clean-enoug ... 6-and-2-7/

My Story part 4: http://suboxonetalkzone.com/clean-enough-2-8-and-2-9/

My Story part 5: http://suboxonetalkzone.com/clean-enoug ... -thinking/

My Story part 6: http://suboxonetalkzone.com/clean-enoug ... l-process/

Dhalia, no one here, especially Dr. Junig, is trying to "minimize the rewards of being sub free." And, of course you are entitled to your opinion, as long as you don't try to argue that another addict isn't sober. We do not argue here over who is "sober" and who isn't, and we discourage members from using those terms.

The only place that there can be an argument about clean & sober definitions is in the Freestyle section. If you would like to start a thread on this subject matter, feel free to do that.

That you would disparage the doctor who created and funded this forum doesn't sit well with me. If you have a question about how we handle things here, please feel free to PM any of the moderators or Dr. Junig himself. But please, don't criticize the doctor's motivation in a thread, especially when you obviously haven't done any research on him at all.

Amy

_________________
Done is better than perfect!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:34 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:39 am
Posts: 54
Wow.

I had no idea that suboxdoc was the site administrator. I did not disparage him and people are responding as if I have.

You edited my response Amy?? I see based off your response that you took the word "sober" out of it. I am actually now sure this forum IS carrying an agenda. True honest conversation starts from allowing people to say what they want to.

I understand one of the forum rules is not debating suboxone's use, and I feel that I was not. As I personally think it is a very personal decision I emphasized that what I was saying was coming from me, and not opinion for everyone too. And that opinion is that while on suboxone your biochemistry is being altered. That is my gut inuition after I review the very basic biochemistry I've been exposed to throughout my life. And because I used the "s" word to relfect that unaltered biochemical state you, or rather Dr. Junig, takes offense to it? I am grateful for suboxone. Suboxone saves lives. Perhaps you feel that refering to it as being not completely "s" might affect other people's sobriety, and therefore life and literal ability to live it because perhaps you think maybe these addicts won't want to get on suboxone if it means they aren't truly sober if they do. And that's not the point I was making. People, if your drug abuse is wrecking your life get on this drug!! "That being on suboxone automatically means you aren't sober" <-----not the point I was making. I was saying that I personally will feel 100% recovered once I am off suboxone, and therefore, totally sober. But that is FOR ME. People SHOULD get on suboxone because it is INFINITELY more sober than being on drugs. However, I feel that speaking in such black and white terms about suboxone and saying that the next day someone switches to suboxone they go from using to sober is wrong. It's on a continuum. I feel like one is only sober in one's mind. After one month of suboxone therapy is one sober? A little bit more. After a year? Hopefully lot more, but only depending on how strong their recovery is. So one person on suboxone can be more sober than the next person. And, incredibly enough, I feel that one person NOT on suboxone can be less sober than a person ON suboxone and that is something only God ("universe") can ever know. I thought the whole debate which the suboxdoc was elaborating on was whether or not suboxone causes personality changes or impacts brain functioning. I feel that it does and personally I feel that the idea of "sober" is integral to the discussion. I know you administrators work for him and that has some influence on you, so I am actually talking to you, Dr. Junig. Because I feel that it impacts brain functioning and especially one of its side effects is reduced cravings I feel that I won't really know whether I'm totally recovered (aka sober) till I stop. Then I will know if my spirituality has overcome this awful disease through the use of this wonderful, incredible substance.

It really bothers me that I've been posting my taper journal on here with a positive outlook on suboxone and now I feel embarassed that it has landed on this website. I will continue using this site though unless I find out it's being sponsored by a pharamceutical company. All I said was that to me, that since suboxone causes biochemical changes in the brain, these changes can impact personality, and that these changes can make a person less sober. Not that they necesarily do. Because only God knows and the person themselves (if they are being honest) how sober they really are. I am a deeply spiritual person and that's actually a "belief". Not a fact.

I'm very upset that someone would moderate a comment of mine. Especially when I didn't break any rules because if I had, they should have copied and pasted the very rule I had broken. Everything is grey people. Looking at life in black and white terms is a symptom of addiction itself too. This is a complicated topic and I hope I described how I feel here. I am going through withdrawal and not very comfortable right now and having difficulty focusing. At the end of the day, get on this people it is a great medication, AND in your gut, if you are very spiritual, and if you are not very spiritual, keep looking at everything in grey, well-balanced terms.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:48 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 4:09 pm
Posts: 10
I definitely see the benefits of suboxone and it definitely helped me but when I was ready to stop I knew and that's when I wanted to not take any medications no matter what any more.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group