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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:51 am 
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I am always surprised when I get on the site and find so many people trying to get off suboxone.
It seems as though people get on the sub and after a few months want to get off and be "free of all drugs."
I find it hard to fathom a person addicted to his/her drug of choice for years, suddenly getting their life back on suboxone, tapering off and living happily ever after. I wonder how is life treating you so far?

I had a 25year addiction to hydrocodone and methadone where (( like you I am sure)) I almost lost everything that I hold of value in my life. I have been on suboxone 4mg. for the last 4 years. I have no plans on getting off anytime soon. I take it daily just like my blood pressure meds. and insulin etc. I have LOST THE CRAVING FOR MY DRUGS OF CHOICE. I don't even think about getting hydrocodone or methadone anymore.
It is a MIRACLE! I am not about to do anything that would mess that up!!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:42 am 
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I feel the same way you do slipper. A life free from the misery of active addiction is more important to me than being able to say "I'm free of all drugs/meds". It wasn't the opioids making my life a living hell, it was the spending all my time, money, and energy looking for and taking whatever opiate I could get my hands on, not paying the bills, living in fear of being in trouble with the law, losing my kids and mind, running out all the time, and being dopesick so often that I couldn't do anything. I never want to risk going back to that way of living! I don't like the direction I see buprenorphine treatment going in due to ignorance, and it scares me to think I'll be forced to go to meetings or jump through other hoops to get my medication, but for now I'll be staying on my bupe, happy to be clean enough!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:36 pm 
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I hear you lizzieshug2013. My doctor still gives me 24mgs a day of bup and I am only taking 4mg....so I have quite a stash saved up. I don't like the way the management of bup is going either and just in case they pull the plug on my miracle drug at least I will have a bunch saved up to at least get me through for a little while.

I hated the chase of the drugs just like you, and like you was afraid of all the same things happening to me. It was so awful to live in that Hell wasn't it? When one gets on that merry-go-round it is hard to make it stop.

Good luck to you!

Slipper

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:03 pm 
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Hi Slipper,

It is so refreshing to see this topic of yours posted. One thing I did do though was change the section you put it in. As serious of topic as this, it deserved a more serious section other than the misc. one. If you object I'll move it back.

Like you, I've been on for over four years now and have no plans on stopping. It was May 2, 2010 that I was first induced with Suboxone. I had no idea what it was or how it worked. All that I had heard was that it would get rid of my cravings. Yea right! Well, it did all that and more. My life was handed back to me and my family stopped worrying about my health. I found out later that my siblings had been discussing my condition. They said I looked pale and sick all the time. Yes, when a person ingests so many drugs in a day that happens.

IMO, you might want to tell your Dr. that you're only taking 8 mg's instead of 24, which we both know is a very high dose. That way you can still stockpile but just not so much. I had about 2 months worth stashed away when I got the big C. It came in handy not having to worry about seeing my Sub doctor right away. Now I have no stash at all. My doctor will give me what I want but I only want 6 mg's for now. I'm stuck on that dose but it works. He considers it a low dose. Okay.

It was bound to happen seeing all the posts about getting off of it. A lot of people are now on Suboxone and I wish them luck if they decide to taper and stop. We have several here who successfully quit but they knew deep down it was going to work. If that day ever comes for me, I'll quit too. But I sincerely doubt it. I take Dr. Junig's opinion very seriously. He knows more about it than I do.

Thanks for posting this. It needs to be talked about.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:10 pm 
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It really was an awful existence to say the least slipper! Like you, my doctor prescribes me a higher dose than what I take, so I've been able to put some in reserve. .. cause the way shit is going ya just never know! I actually need to build it back up a bit now because I like to keep 2 months worth on hand, and recently my pharmacy didn't have my meds in stock, so I had to wait. If not for my emergency back up, I'd have been in terrible shape. It's a shame really that we have to feel nervous about our life saving treatment being yanked away from us or becoming so difficult to getThat it deters people from being treated at all. If ever I feel ready to completely taper off, I'll give it a go, but if that at any time makes me feel like I'm in danger of relapse. .. it'll be right back to the bupe. For right now, I've set a goal for myself to be down to 2 to 4 mgs by mid summer. I plan to stay therev until. .. well maybe life, and I'm totally fine with that. Good luck to you as well slipper. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:22 pm 
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Hey rule62 it was good to hear from you. I had not visited the forum in quite some time but I was glad to see you were still here. Thanks as well for moving me into the right section. I never did learn where to put things. Sounds like you and I are about on the same page with our bup treatment. I am glad to hear you are doing so well. When I was here last you were having some pretty major problems with your health. I am so glad you are doing ok now.

I suppose the reason I don't tell my doctor I am only taking 4mg. is because he just always writes the script for 24mgs and I get #90 per month. This allows me to really save them up. I have a large supply on hand just in case something happens and our life-saving drug is taken away.

I am also taking subutex instead of suboxone. It is cheaper, however, my insurance covers the drug and therefore it is not a major problem. There was one time when the pharmacy filled my subutex with this tiny little pill which was an 8mg pill but I was unable to cut it in half or whatever. My normal subutex pill is about the size of a bayer aspirin. I complained to my pharmacist and he has always ordered the right size since then. I put this out there in case anyone else might run into this trouble with the pill size.

My only wish for everyone here is that they could feel as good and be doing as well as I am. I see so many struggling with the addiction. I suppose we all have to find our place with this, but I would encourage everyone to hang in there and just keep taking the sub and your life will turn around and the cravings will leave and you will get your life back!! I also found that after some time of thinking I had to take 3 a day.. that 1 a day did just as well...that was all in my mind. Then I found that 1/2 a day did just as well as 1.

I think that in time we all figure this out and work things out to suit our own situation.

Good luck to everyone on the forum!!

Slipper

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:33 am 
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Sorry if I'm overstepping here because I have only been on sub for 2 weeks but I have real concern that I will be on it for a very very long time as I have been getting high on basically whatever I could find since I was 14 years old and I'm 46 now and finally have found a light at the end of the tunnel with suboxone ...Anyway I wanted to ask rule why you would suggest that slipper tell her doc she was not taking as much as prescribed?? I don't mean that hateful in any way rule just curious..I can tell you that I am literally losing sleep worried about something going wrong with my appointments every week because of the horror stories I read all over the internet about people abruptly losing they're scripts for whatever reason be it by fault of the doctors tapering them before they are ready or bad weather or shady ass doctors like mine getting in trouble or whatever so why shouldn't we stock up as much as possible?? I'm just curious maybe I didn't read your post right ..again no disrespect intended just this particular topic is of great concern to me ..Right now im very excited to hear the low doses you guys are taking and doing so great I am so hopeful I can maintain on a low dose like u guys very soon but I am having already ALOT of trouble getting it through my head I don't have to take a multitude of pills every 2 hours to feel well although I have not taken any more not one time than I am prescribed ..Right now I can't even imagine not taking anything at all EVER


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:39 am 
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Hey guys,

Slipper, you're so right. It's funny how we start off thinking we need so much (that stupid addict brain) and then realize...nope, I'm good with alot less! I believe it's just something that we all learn after time. It's not something that you can just tell someone who is new to the drug because it goes against everything we have conditioned ourselves to believe!
I have a friend who is prescribed 16mgs per day and runs out early every single month. I often wonder if he will ever "get it". I can't imagine not being able to make it on that now, but there was a time I would have probably been the same way. It took me months to be able to stick to my 8mg dose, and now I make it on 2mg most days just fine!

@Alwaysthesame, you are doing well. Don't worry about what is going to happen long term. That can be a really bad circle to get going in your head. Just focus on one day at a time for now, and worry about the rest later. The first several months of treatment are tough, and you will learn alot about how this medicine works for you as you go. Give yourself some credit dude!

As for stopping the subs...I think it's a very personal choice. I would like to be able to stop them one day, but I don't know if I ever will. I definitely don't want to leave myself open to relapse, but there are some valid, very personal, reasons for some of us to consider it. I absolutely don't think it is wrong to stay on it, I would if the situation was different, but each person should be able to do it their way without being judged by anyone else. Don't you agree?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:46 pm 
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alwaysthesame,

It was just a suggestion for her to tell her doctor about taking less. I only said to tell him 8 mg's, not the 4 she is really taking. The reason for that was only because of the large amount she was saving up every month. It just seemed excessive. And once again, it was only a suggestion. She didn't take my advice and I could care less. She and I know each other from way back when so she knows my intent. She can do whatever she likes. She knows it was only my opinion and not a hard suggestion.

When you have such a large amount left over every month you will need to use up the old stock first before the newer pills or they might lose some efficacy. Stores do the same thing with milk and perishables. It just seemed like a hassle having to rotate the stock every month.

Now that we are talking about stockpiling, it's starting to bug me that I don't have any extra at all. It would mean for me to take only 4 mg's per day and save up the 2 mg's films for several months to have any impact at all if something happened. I don't worry about that though. If they ban it, they ban it. I'll face that demon the day it comes.

How are YOU doing? Have you updated your thread recently? I'll go look and see if you are doing any better. You have me a bit worried about you. PM me if you want to chat about anything.

rule
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:35 pm 
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To answer your original question, Slipper, I think that the attitude is due to ignorance and optimism. Before anyone gets up in arms, please let me clarify. I'm not saying that the people who want to get off all drugs are ignorant or unintelligent people. I think that getting off all drugs can be a worthy goal. I am afraid, however, that the number of folks who think it is a possibility for them is unrealistically high given the statistics.

Since I don't mean that people wanting to get off all drugs are ignorant or unintelligent, what exactly do I mean about ignorance promoting the idea that people can do just that?? I think that many intelligent, well-meaning people, both in the addiction field and addicts themselves, underestimate addiction. The statistics for people getting off all drugs once they are addicted are terrible! But there are so many addicts who think they are going to be among the 5-10% who never touch drugs again. I think they underestimate what addition does to the brain, and don't realize that the changes in the brain will never be undone.

The desire to be off drugs for good is understandable! Especially since society has long ostracized drug users and labeled them bad people with low morals. This is true even though every stitch of credible evidence shows that the ability to stop using drugs is being blocked by processes in the brain. I wish we could jump 10 years forward in our ability to understand how the brain works! Eventually the overwhelming evidence will show that "willpower" cannot affect addiction in the long run. Eventually we will have better medication options, vaccines, and other powerful tools against addiction. It is extremely frustrating to me that the stigma perpetuated by part of the addiction community itself is slowing the advances that medical science can make! If we were putting all of our resources into study and science we would have made advances by now that we are forced to wait for instead.

I will continue to support each and every person who comes here wanting to be off all medications. A percentage of them will make it. But I will always support the use of buprenorphine products as a tool in our fight to better lives and reduce harm. I look forward to better medications or solutions that will come in the future. Right now the combinations of medicine, therapy, and support groups is what we have. I will advocate for all three of those things to be available to addicts until we have better solutions.

Amy

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:58 pm 
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Very well said, Amy!

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:05 pm 
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Aside from Alprazolam, methadone is the worst pharmaceutical to be addicted to. It makes sense as to why you would stay on it. But some of us have been addicted to Hydrocodone and other pain killers that aren't as "heavy" as methadone and have no need to be on Suboxone for the rest of our lives. I have a lot of friends and family addicted to subs and as for me, I find being stuck on Suboxone for years just to kick a one year pain pill habit ridiculous and over all stifling. It's not a miracle drug, it's just another pharmaceutical the companies want you hooked on.

But my point is that everybody has a different story and for one to not realize that because you think you're stuck on Suboxone after 20+ years of methadone use is narrow minded. Everybody should get off of all of this shit, be it heroin or Suboxone.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:33 pm 
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Pris wrote:
It's not a miracle drug, it's just another pharmaceutical the companies want you hooked on.

But my point is that everybody has a different story and for one to not realize that because you think you're stuck on Suboxone after 20+ years of methadone use is narrow minded. Everybody should get off of all of this shit, be it heroin or Suboxone.


Pris,

This type of negative comment isn't what we are about here. I'm sorry to have to address something you have written on your very first post. But, this forum is very supportive of people who have chosen to keep their addiction in control using suboxone for long term/ life time maintenance. Addiction is a chronic relapsing disease. You cannot make statments calling people narrow minded because they have made a choice to stay on it long-term.

I would suggest you go to the index page and re-read the rules of this forum. There aren't many, but the ones we have are enforced.

Thank You,

Q

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:34 pm 
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Pris wrote:
Aside from Alprazolam, methadone is the worst pharmaceutical to be addicted to. It makes sense as to why you would stay on it. But some of us have been addicted to Hydrocodone and other pain killers that aren't as "heavy" as methadone and have no need to be on Suboxone for the rest of our lives. I have a lot of friends and family addicted to subs and as for me, I find being stuck on Suboxone for years just to kick a one year pain pill habit ridiculous and over all stifling. It's not a miracle drug, it's just another pharmaceutical the companies want you hooked on.

But my point is that everybody has a different story and for one to not realize that because you think you're stuck on Suboxone after 20+ years of methadone use is narrow minded. Everybody should get off of all of this shit, be it heroin or Suboxone.



Your opinion is interesting given that your point is that everyone has a different story. Suboxone is a tool that many addicts have found helpful. If people were able to get off hydrocodone or other pain killers on their own, they would do it. The scientific evidence about addiction tells us that it is a chronic disorder of the brain characterized by relapse. The statistics tell us that 90 to 95% of addicts trying to quit cold turkey will relapse. Most people turned to suboxone in desperation, not because they've had a short stint on pain killers and want the easy way out. Most have also tried to quit cold turkey several times and have found that it doesn't work for them.

It sounds like you've misused your sub, however you got it, and that's probably why you don't see the benefit to it. When addicts use suboxone as part of their recovery process it is a very useful medication. When addicts tool around on it and don't use it as it's meant to be used it will not be helpful to them, except to avoid getting sick. Given that you seem to have abused the sub you've gotten a hold of, I wouldn't expect you to understand why it's beneficial.

If you want to be off suboxone and all opiates that is great! I really hope you're successful in your detox! I urge you to have some sort of recovery plan to work on. As bad as the statistics are for addicts relapsing, they're even worse if you don't have some sort of program to work. Your brain has changed because of your addiction. Make sure you get help to make your recovery successful. Find an addiction therapist or a support group. Anything to keep from abusing opiates!

There are plenty of people here who have been through a suboxone detox. Some of them stick around to help others, but many are never heard from again. The ones who have stayed have awesome advice on getting through this phase so listen to their wisdom. I hope you do well!

Amy

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:21 pm 
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Not to worry rule62..I did not mind what you said about saving up my subutex. I would like to address the expiration date of the drug.
As an R.N., I have taught in many Nursing Schools across the southwest and have in been in Nursing for 38plus years and through all of that I have always been told not to ever throw any drugs away that might be beneficial in keeping...like antibiotics...etc.

I surely do not know everything, lol...but I would expect the suboxone would last many years and not run "out of date". I have found this to be true with other drugs. When I was raising my children I used to keep drugs that would be helpful to them when they had colds, fever, toothaches, earaches, etc..and I kept these things for years and they were always effective. Many doctors would tell me "don't throw that away" and pharmacists as well. It is just a thought...but might be helpful.

Sincerely,

Slipper

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:28 pm 
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Thank you for the information Slipper,
Good to hear from a pro. Stockpiling has taken the pressure off me in many ways. Others too im sure.
Good topic. I know for a fact that old sub is as good as new really. How bad could the films turn in those foil
packets anyway...


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:41 pm 
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I remember the first time I went to the bup Dr. I'm from a small town and I made the 50 mile drive to his office and I was really sick with withdrawal. It had been several days since I had any hydrocodone or methadone. I signed in and was completing the paperwork and I thought dear God just let me get through this! I was nauseated...had diarrhea and my skin was crawling...you know....and I finally got to a room and the Dr. checked me out and I laid out my story and he seemed nice enough. Then the nurse brought me an 8mg subutex and broke it in half and told me to put it under my tongue. They told me to relax for 30 minutes..go outside and have a cigarette if I wanted and then just come back into my room. So I go outside and smoke...come back in 30 minutes and in about 45 minutes they came back in and asked how I was feeling.
I could not believe it...I felt good...I felt really good...my nausea was gone..the skin crawling was gone...I felt like I did when I went bare-footed for the first time in the summer when I was a little girl! Could this really work? Could a little pill make me feel normal ? Nothing had ever worked for me...not AA or NA or Psychiatrists or counselors or treatment centers..... Did it work? You bet it did. Fast forward 4 years later
and it is still working!

I say all the above because if you are just coming on the forum...and you are not sure what to do..and everything you have ever tried has not worked for you..I would suggest you give suboxone a try. It has been the only thing that has ever worked for me. I realize everyone is different, but I am not unique...I am just like the rest of all of you..a full blown addict with years of destructive behavior.

Thank God I do not have to live like that anymore!!

Good luck to everyone!!
Slipper

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:42 am 
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slipper wrote:
I hear you lizzieshug2013. My doctor still gives me 24mgs a day of bup and I am only taking 4mg....so I have quite a stash saved up. I don't like the way the management of bup is going either and just in case they pull the plug on my miracle drug at least I will have a bunch saved up to at least get me through for a little while.

I hated the chase of the drugs just like you, and like you was afraid of all the same things happening to me. It was so awful to live in that Hell wasn't it? When one gets on that merry-go-round it is hard to make it stop.

Good luck to you!

Slipper


I thought I was the only one with a secret stash!!! I've been on suboxone for 10 years and it still works just as well today as it did when I started:) Life without cravings for an addict like me is such a gift! Not saying I don't have side effects, but in my opinion, they're all worth it!!!

I've literally had nightmares where I failed a drug screen and got kicked out of the program; obviously I know better than to use and fail a drug screen (I still have drug screens EVERY MONTH after 10 years), but the nightmares are because I'm terrified of life without suboxone! I learned the hard way that without suboxone, (even after months clean!) my cravings don't go away! I've accepted that I'm an addict and my ticket to a healthy, productive life is maintenance suboxone:)

Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way:)

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:14 pm 
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I tell you guys why I'm saving up..I recently went to my 3rd appointment and since my induction I have only seen the P.A. the doctor has been there in the office every time but the P.A. is who I actually see and gives me my U.A. and then takes me with her to look at my U.A. Results then she gives me my script with docs approval..Anyway last appointment as she was handing me my script starts talking about how she had so many appointments today and how she was so exhausted she wanted to just call in sick that day but knew if she wasn't there for all the sub patients they would be screwed ..I said wtf does that mean and she said our doc here is great don't get me wrong but if I'm not here you guys are screwed that's all I'm sayin..So I left there thinking are you freaking kidding me I have to count on one person being there or else ?? So one I'm dam sure finding another provider and bet your ass I'm stashing back because I WILL NEVER TRUST ANY OF THESE DOCTORS...and the next one I get I will make sure they have some sort of plan in place in case of emergency on their part ... Just my 2 cents


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:56 pm 
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I so hope, alwaysthesame, that you have to eat those words! I really hope that you find a sub doctor who is so good, so attentive, so in it for the right reasons, that you will be able to trust your doctor!

Until then, though, it's a great idea to stock up!!! Yes, Jamielynn, many of us have an extra stash, so you are not alone. Congratulations on ten years of recovery with suboxone! I'm so glad to hear that the medication has had a steady effect on you!

While we don't advocate deceiving your doctor about how much you are taking, it's human nature to want a back-up plan in place. My doctor totally understands that and pretty much nudges his patients toward the same conclusion.

Amy

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