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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:00 pm 
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Okay so basically I have medco which is a real insurance company in NJ (BCBS switched me over to medco) I was getting brand subutex at 42$ covered by medco (quanity did not make a difference)..... Now I also am on social services who gave me medicaid. Medicaid WILL ONLY COVER THE GENERIC SUBUTEX!!!!! THEY WILL NOT COVER BRAND EVEN KNOW MY SCRIPT SAID BRAND NECESSARY RIGHT ON IT!!!!!!!!! Now that is nonsense! (If I use my medicaid card rx's are free for me.) But I also have the chance of my real insurance company finding out I have medicaid so I choose to just use my real insurance (Medco) who has a 9$ copay on the generic subutex. But yes all of you who said that the generic subutex is cheaper then the generic suboxone are correct. I may be guessing but I think it may be the fact that it is just pure buprenorphine in the generic Subutex vs. Suboxone who has the added naltrexone in it???? Either way it is BS that the medicaid is not covering brand when it is written medically necessary from my doctor. How or why do they have the right to do that?????? I dod not think that was even possible?


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 Post subject: Just read a reply......
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:03 pm 
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Just read your ending that said Subs not Drugs and thought that was absolutely adorable!!!! Thats the first I have ever heard that/been around for quite a long time... Thanks ( I am going to have to steal that from you though :) and use it elsewhere I think my doctor will enjoy that as well!!! :P


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 Post subject: To "SubSupporter"
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:07 pm 
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[b] You are not alone whatsoever when you speak about going below a 4 mg dosage. Of course like you said it is our own indivdual biology! But just like with methadone maintenance which I used to advocate but do not anymore, people are almost always good till they go down around the 15 mg level. Then the pain, cravings, and hurt returns. I have found that to be the same with bupe/subs in general. Once you get down so low, even the smallest amount makes this huge difference. I dont know exactly why or how that works but it is a shame because it makes it that much harder for us to eventuallly get off entirely.


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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:22 pm 
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djkidmethod wrote:
Okay so basically I have medco which is a real insurance company in NJ (BCBS switched me over to medco) I was getting brand subutex at 42$ covered by medco (quanity did not make a difference)..... Now I also am on social services who gave me medicaid. Medicaid WILL ONLY COVER THE GENERIC SUBUTEX!!!!! THEY WILL NOT COVER BRAND EVEN KNOW MY SCRIPT SAID BRAND NECESSARY RIGHT ON IT!!!!!!!!! Now that is nonsense! (If I use my medicaid card rx's are free for me.) But I also have the chance of my real insurance company finding out I have medicaid so I choose to just use my real insurance (Medco) who has a 9$ copay on the generic subutex. But yes all of you who said that the generic subutex is cheaper then the generic suboxone are correct. I may be guessing but I think it may be the fact that it is just pure buprenorphine in the generic Subutex vs. Suboxone who has the added naltrexone in it???? Either way it is BS that the medicaid is not covering brand when it is written medically necessary from my doctor. How or why do they have the right to do that?????? I dod not think that was even possible?


FYI....There is no generic suboxone, only generic subutex, which is also why there is a price difference between the two (suboxone is brand and subutex has the cheaper generic available).

If I can ask....why do you want the brand suubutex? I have found the generic to be just as effective, and much cheaper. :) I was a little confused though....is your script (where your doc wrote "brand ness.") for suboxone or subutex? If it IS for subutex, you may want to ask your doctor to ok generics, so you can put it on your medicaid.

Also, be careful about using insurance and medicaid at the same time. I worked for years in insurance billing, and neither side will be happy if they find out. Insurance may cancel your coverage, and Medicaid will often terminate your benefits as well....not a good situation to be in.

Elizabeth

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"Don't hope for a life without problems. An easy life results in a judgmental and lazy mind."
- Zen Master Kyong Ho


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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 7:12 pm 
djkidmethod:

1. The reason Medicaid won't pay for brand is that programs for TRULY NEEDY PEOPLE like Medicaid have very limited funding and cannot waste it buying expensive brand-name medications for everyone.

2. What you are doing, deceiving your insurance and Medicaid about the existence of each other, is FRAUD. They WILL cross reference and find out, at which time you will be charged with a crime (felony) and you will have to pay back every cent to Medicaid that they paid on your behalf. Medicaid is only for people with no other insurance OR who are on Social Security Disability or SSI. I've seen it happen plenty of times. Enjoy it while you can, because you will be found out.

3. In fact, you posted your Facebook page!! ****(edit), trust and believe that I will be alerting Medco and Medicaid in New Jersey about what you are doing. It is the leaches of the system that are making everyone's healthcare so expensive! Thank you very much.

Edit: See next post for apology.


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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 7:46 pm 
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Subsupporter: Do you not get what a support forum is for? It's NOT for threatening to turn people in to the authorities for something you disagree with - illegal or otherwise. If we all did that we wouldn't spend anytime supporting anyone in their recovery. That's all I'll say in this thread.

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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 8:54 pm 
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Where do you get off with the self rightous attitude.......we are addicts who have our addiction in remission. With that we are working on making ourselves better. We can give all the support and experience we want but we don't need someone on here threating to turn someone in........we have enough shame and guilt from all the lying, cheating and stealing we did while in active addiction. It was pointed out that it is wrong and that person knows that now........we don't need the police on here looking to jack someone up for something they don't believe is right......we are here to support others like us and if you read these threads you will see where we all have done things we are not proud of.....focus on helping not hurting another member.....

Jim


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 Post subject: I apologize.
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 9:29 pm 
I apologize to him and to all. I'm not really going to do it. I just got mad. If a moderator wants to delete the post, please do it. I make mistakes too. Sometimes I see red and go completely off.

See, I am poor. I struggle to make maybe $7500 a year because of a mental disability, and I had to fight and fight to get Medicaid. The whole thing just touched a nerve with me, and brought up a bunch of deeper feelings. I'm only in my first year of recovery too, and every day is an emotional rollercoaster. I know it's NOT an excuse, but I kind of forgot where I was. I feel like a piece of shit. God, someone erase that post! I would never really turn someone in. Never. Because I did illegal things too. I just felt like scaring him, because I was pissed. I'm really sorry.
J


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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 10:05 pm 
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That's a great step.....I am sure we all have had those days. You did the right thing......you apologized....now don't worry about it anymore and move on........

Jim


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 Post subject: In reply....
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 11:03 pm 
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Nope You are absolutely correct there is no generic suboxone, I didnt even realize I had wrote that?? But thats okay, yes the generic and the brand actually are almost the exact same in comparison with ingredients. The only ingredient differences are in the color/dye (which is actually in there even know they are both white pills, and the filler-which actually is the exact same since the generic is made by a great pharmaceutical company, Boehringer Ingelheim Roxane. The only difference I have personally noticed is that of it not dissolving as easily or as fast. I have been on the drug quite a long time, since the generic came out and the brand switched tiers it is quite expensive for me. For the guy who was so upset with my post just so u know its not covered for me by my medicaid since I have insurance. I am in a donut hole and have to pay for it by cash. Even the generic is quite expensive for a full time college student who can only work 23 hours a week because smwim has to take care of his father who has cancer and cant afford for a live in nurse for him... I have my own apt that I am very grateful that my county helps me with my rent because otherwise I would be living on the street. I attend AA meetings because there are very few NA meetings anywhere in my area, although I am just as happy in my AA meetings. I graduate from college in 2 semesters and actually will have my CADC at the exact same time. Your criticizing me is just fine, as we only learn by our errors and I thank you for that. Although for someone who prides themselves for knowing so much on the drug etc. it could be quite a turn off for someone who takes things personally and is fresh/new to the drug. Would you really want it on your conscience knowing that your "advanced knowledge" and "showing off" could lead someone away from a site devoted to helping those who have it the hardest and are here trying to overcome their addiction? If i read your post and took it to heart I certainly would not be back here.... I guess most addicts are very impulsive, but its sad to see someone speak poor of or down to on a website like this where people are here to get help.


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 Post subject: And again...
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 11:36 pm 
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I appreciate everything all of the others have said, as well as the apology I was given by "subsupporter" I have been on and off of methadone, naltrexone, suboxone/subutex, I have done the ibogaine therapy out of the US, I have been to over 20+ different treatment programs, I have been to "Narconon and tried the scientology approach to recovery. I have tried an "amino acid drip therapy" that was supposed to detoxify my system and make me "better"... Now I attend AA/NA on a daily basis. I have struggled with addiction since I was 13 and first put a needle into my arm, I am now 29 years old. I have spent years in prison, mental institutions, and have had several suicide attempts where I had been very close to being successful! I have had to re-learn how to walk after being in a coma and having a stroke from drinking anti-freeze which I am now permanently deaf in my right ear from. I currently take care of my father who I grew up with as an abusive alcoholic, right now he is incapable of taking care of himself due to his having cancer. I am a full time college student seeking out a CADC which I question myself daily if I ever will be capable of performing the tasks of a drug and alcohol counselor. One can judge very easily and be quick to make statements that are very discouraging as well as "threaten" other users of this forum. But it is now and has been my impression that this forum is here to help one another. I was on the ampules for two years before I discovered a doctor that actually compounded bupe down in Miami into small wax like squares. About three years after that the pill form of Suboxone and Subutex came out. I have been dealing with 3 friends of mine that go to the same doctor as I that are also prescribed Subutex. All 3 of them abuse it in one form or another and it is a burden on my sholders since I had introduced them to this doctor. He is very affordable and very good. One of the so called "friends" I introduced to him about 2 years back sells half of the script she gets for money. The other 2 instead of taking it sublingual they snort it/share it with others to whom it was not prescribed. I almost feel obligated to speak to my doctor about this, but on the other hand I will not be the one to determine the status of how their lives turn out. I have disassociated myself from all 3 of them as soon as I had found out what they were doing. And feel bad even having the knowledge of what they are doing. But it is not my place nor job to "tell" on them, and possibly have them in a much worse case scenario. Every one of us on this forum has our own individual struggles we deal with each and every day, I believe that is why we are on here to get help from one another. If my previous post offended anyone I sincerely apologize!! And I truly mean that. Today I am grateful that a drug like subutex is out there to give me a 3 day window to truly choose if I want to go down that horrible road again. As well as take away the cravings and constant compulsion I had to use. Once again I thank all of you who can relate to the threshold of horror addiction can bring you to. And I very much so like the access of help I can get on these different forums/would not ever want to be turned away from that. -Thanks again -Nick


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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:29 pm 
djkidmethod wrote:
(If I use my medicaid card rx's are free for me.) But I also have the chance of my real insurance company finding out I have medicaid so I choose to just use my real insurance (Medco) who has a 9$ copay on the generic subutex


Why would he have written this if everything he is doing is legal? I apologized to him in a PM, and he sent back a PM saying everything was all right. NOW, on Wednesday, this kid has somehow gotten ahold of my e-mail and is harassing the shit out of me. He's also saying now that his insurance and Medicaid know about each other and that everything is on the up-and-up.
Sorry, but not turning in illegal behaviour is the OLD ADDICT WAY OF LIVING. Saying that someone is a snitch or a narc is OLD ADDICT BEHAVIOR. I have an obligation to turn this guy in, and I plan to do it tomorrow. I don't care about his sob stories, just like I don't give a damn what anyone on this site thinks about me. I'm going to do the right thing regardless.

Also, this used to be a good website until the thought police "nannies" took over. Now everything you say somehow offends someone and cannot be allowed. Give me a break. I belong to some "real" forums where you can speak your mind and people don't boohoo about it in the next 20 posts. Ban me, whatever, I don't give a fuck.

Djkidmethod, you had your chance and you blew it. I'm googling the department of Medicaid services of New Jersey right after this message, and I'm also calling Medco's fraud line as well. Have a nice life.


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 12:31 am 
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"Also, this used to be a good website until the thought police "nannies" took over. Now everything you say somehow offends someone and cannot be allowed. Give me a break. I belong to some "real" forums where you can speak your mind and people don't boohoo about it in the next 20 posts."

That's great to hear. Why don't you go hang out there then instead of continuing to creat problems, make use-less posts, and cause trouble here. We have a wonderful community of people here and don't need people who are so frustrated with their own lives that they want to cause pain and heartache for others.

"I don't give a damn what anyone on this site thinks about me."

That probably works out for the best, all things considered.


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 6:42 am 
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Whoa! What the hell just happened? :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 11:41 am 
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Subsupporter,

First off…I totally understand your anger if DJ has been contacting you through your email, especially if you didn’t give it out to him. I would be really pissed too….but I just think there are better ways to deal with it. What does turning him in do? Let’s say that the insurance company and Medicare decide to cancel his policy, and he is without insurance…..then what? You have possibly taken away his suboxone, and turned him back to active addiction…..is that what you wanted? I personally wouldn’t wish addiction on my worst enemy, much less a person who annoyed me with an email.

“Also, this used to be a good website until the thought police "nannies" took over. Now everything you say somehow offends someone and cannot be allowed. Give me a break. I belong to some "real" forums where you can speak your mind and people don't boohoo about it in the next 20 posts. Ban me, whatever, I don't give a fuck.”

The thing is, this is a SUPPORT forum, not a place to debate. It’s one thing to disagree, and another thing to pick a fight (which I see you doing all over the place lately). The thing is, you can disagree with a person’s actions, and not attack the person. To me, and other people as well, this is a safe place where we can say things that are embarrassing or illegal or upsetting…..and get SUPPORT. When you create a hostile environment, it effects everyone, and I don’t like my recovery being threatened by your need to vent. I LOVE a good argument, but not here…..it just isn’t the right place to argue about petty crap, especially when there are such high stakes.

My biggest fear is the new people who come onto this forum. Let’s say I have just started sub, but I am unsure if I should stay on it. NA is no help (they tell me I am trading a drug for a drug) and my old friends are still using. I find this forum online, and start reading…..the generic thread is the first I look at because I am running out of money. Do you think reading your posts is going to make me want to sign up, learn more, talk, share my problems, and get advice, or am I just going to want to get away and avoid the conflicts? THAT is the point of this forum, not debate. Please use your other forums to argue, and keep this one to support and help people.

Do what you want with this situation, but then please try to think about how your words are effecting other people on this forum, and take that into consideration before you post.

Take Care,

Elizabeth

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"Don't hope for a life without problems. An easy life results in a judgmental and lazy mind."
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 Post subject: generic in Maryland
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 7:13 pm 
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[font=Arial]Hi All-
:twisted: I could only ever get the generic through Walgreens or Target. CVS, Rite Aid and other supermarket pharmacies denied the generic exist. Correct e if I am wrong, but generics came out in October, but I haven't been able to get in March due to legal stuff. My pharmacist has been trying through the vendor and warehouse to get the generic, but they are still being held up...Anyone live in MD or heard of this. I SWEAR those two pharmacies are the only ones who carry them. When I ask the other ones, they act like I'm an idiot ,even after I explain it's for SUBUTEX, not SUBOXONE. Help..I've been paying full price for months. My doc and pharmacist said this is common when a generic first comes out-they pull it for some stupid reason like a crack in the tab
Suggestions?

Thanks,
Katie[/font]


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 8:28 pm 
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I just called my local pharmacies to see if they carried the generic. I personally go to Walgreens and they carry the generic form that I take 8 mg.... Now I called around and strangely enough WalMart and Rite Aid carries it. Not the local WalMart by me, because I tried to get my script filled there. I was told the pharmacy manager chooses not to carry Suboxone or Subutex, of course felt a little embaressment asked if they carried Oxycontin and Morphine and the pharmacist replied yes.... So I was a little not thrown off, and asked him why he would carry other substances that are highly addicitve and widely abused and he said hes not the RX mgr. and I would have to speak with her about it. And that the two Walmarts that are in 20 minutes either west or east from that one do carry it. I called and they certainly did. I didnt know that the pharmacist especially in a corporate setting like that were able to choose which drugs they carry but I guess thats the case. :( ( Now this forum is strictly not for arguments or some other dude threatening me to "turn me in" ) But all apologies to those it effected. He had posted how he had apologized to me etc.... Well he never sent me a PM with a real apology it was just a sarcastic, mean, degrading message and then he came back and spoke to all how he had did his part. I am here cause I need help I wont waste my time trying to help myself or others if I have to deal with someone who doesnt understand what my real situation is. That being my being in what they call a donut hole with my BC/BS. Its a 5,000$ cap I am stuck in supposed to be paying cash. I havent gotten to that point yet but I will be shortly I have been told. That scares the heck out of me not being able to afford my medications. I dont have medicaid either I have something through the county I live in which is not federally funded. But "subsupporter" who doesnt give a "sh*&" about us or this "stupid" "nannied forum" is a nasty distraction. I am grateful that I have such a wonderful sponsor and attend AA on a daily basis. Online help is certainly something to be taken advantage of! My doctor himself uses this website almost on a daily basis. But now I am quite deterred and if we didnt have moderators then the forum could and probably would turn into a joke. When I was on methadone for years they had no cameras at my clinic, it turned into a drugstore. Then they finally decided to hire security and install cameras and the drug dealing almost came to a full halt. Its quite embaressing that my name is the one involved with his, and to the whole community I apologize for that. I have been using on and off for 13 years, I have tried pretty much every method of opiate treatment available, from Narconon and their Scientology approach, To taking Ibogaine down in Mexico, a special "Amino Acid IV drip therapy" out in Tijuana. I was one of the original blind study patients for buprenorphine, methadone maintenance, several 12 step rehabs from very nice and plush communities to very rugged long term TC's. I have spent time in prisons, psych wards, and now what I have found to work for me is my taking medication (Subutex and I take Seroquel for sleep) and attending 12 step meetings daily. I am as far from perfect as you can get I am sure of that, but I believe I have allot to offer for those who are interested in various forms of treatment. I have not met many others who have taken Ibogaine like myself and I am quite knowledgable on the subject/how to go about getting the treatment. For the last poster wondering about only a few pharmacies in MD carrying the drug, I would certainly make some phone calls and make sure to speak with the actual pharmacist rather then their staff. Most pharmacies can order just about any and all drugs from their supplier. If the demand is there I would not think they would want to be losing the business to other pharmacies. Around my area like I said Wal Mart Walgreens Rite Aid and I also called 3 local non commercial pharmacies. All 3 of them said they could get the drug in generic form or in brand (Subutex), and that they can also get suboxone (all of them said it was not a problem whether it was 2 mg dosages or 8) 2 of the locals said they could literally have it by tomorrow. And the 3rd said that they only receive controlled substances once a week on Thursdays but they would gladly fill a prescription for me if I was able to wait till next Thursday. So literally I googled local pharmacies made a few calls and in under 5 minutes I found several. I can only hope you have the same luck that I did, and that you can find someone nearby!! -I wish you the best and hope you find what your looking for though sub tx. it has been something that has created a phenomenal change in my life, and whether it be brand or generic I honestly noticed no difference whatsoever when I switched over to the generic. Same taste etc. although I am allergic to quite a few things so I was quite worried about what the filler contained. Upon doing a little research I discovered that they are basically one and the same. And everything went well for me with the switch. And I have been almost ecstatic since it has came out for its affordability and a few of my friends now able to actually be on the dosage they feel comfortable at!!! :) Best of wishes to all of you, I am actually signing off to go to a meeting right now :D and will check back later... Have a good evening everyone!


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