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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:33 am 
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In Vermont a suboxone program started in 2007 i was one of their clients i have been going to their counseling groups for 4 years now and have been on suboxone since they opened,life has made a dramatic change for myself and family and anyone associated with me,drugging stoped,lies stoped,stealing stoped,cheating the system and everyone stoped,personal and affiliated crime stoped,and new association of people places and things,everything that is for the best interest to stay clean has been done and continued to do so with the maintenance of suboxone,without the suboxone it would have never happened,I'm 51 years old and have tried hundreds of times with no long term success,the devil is too powerful,anyways after 4 years of sobriety with suboxone maintenance and once a week one on one counseling(Through the synergy counseling program) the future for many has taken a shocking toll,With no notice of any kind the synergy program in Vermont shut its doors to everyone last week including its employers,they had two facilities in Vermont one in Berlin VT and the other in Burlington VT the facility in Berlin closed a couple months ago and their clients that wanted to remain in the program had to transport to Burlington to my understanding as to what the owner of synergy counseling program has claimed bankrupt,meaning in one day close to two hundred suboxone clients at a minimum and its employees and Dr's where shut out and had nowhere to go,so at this point we all where left to fend for ourselves,no phone calls of notice or inquiry to what we are all to do,WOW! talk about sudden shock,with close to two hundred clients suddenly trying to find a Dr. in one day and the thousands of folks that are in relation to all of its effects,work,family,friends,this could be an epidemic for many to relapse which will include crime rate going up and so on,but thats the update so far for whats going on when a suboxon counseling clinic closes in an instant,if any interest in what happens next i will post but if not then i will stop here,at this point i have enough suboxone to last two more weeks and personally there's no possible way i can ween down to be completely abstinence without maintenance in that time frame,

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:02 am 
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Wow, what a shock that must be! I cannot even imagine what you are going through right now, but it's not a stretch to imagine that you probably feel very abandoned and betrayed. Business is business, but you'd hope that at least when a practice sees that it's not financially going to be viable, it would give its patients as much warning as possible. It's ironic how patients have to pass urine tests and meet whatever other demands are given by a doctor to earn and keep the right to pay the doctor (many times up front and in cash) to be treated for the disease of addiction. However, a doctor can up and leave and needs to give no explanation. There is something very morally wrong with that. If I were a doctor, I would do it differently. As soon as I saw that my doors may close, I'd be on the phone trying to get my patients ready. It's ironic how all the literature warns us not to stop taking Suboxone suddenly, but then some of us are literally forced to do just that. I've always felt a little unsafe on Suboxone in that respect, because you really cannot be sure you will always be able to get your script. People lose jobs and insurance or their doctors shut down and no one else has an opening.

Listen, I know this was very unfair. You deserve to be angry and frustrated. You also have been off full agonist opiates for four years. I don't know how to say this a way that I know won't offend you, so please know I don't mean to offend you. You have to look as far and wide as you can for another Sub doc. You know that and you are most likely doing all you can. If you cannot find one and you run low, don't let your addict mind turn this unjust thing into a justification for going back to your drug of choice. Please don't cheat yourself like that. You don't absolutely have to relapse, even if you entirely run out of Suboxone. Give it your all. Hopefully, you will find a doctor soon and it will all be okay. If you have to go without for a while, push through it. You've changed everything and put so much work into your new life. Don't let it all slip away. It's not fair to YOU.

Best of luck!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:53 am 
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Damn, I'm sorry to hear about that. It really sucks that businesses make such decisions that affect people's lives so severely with no thought whatsoever.

So you have enough sub to last two weeks. Can you stretch that out? What dose are you on currently? Can you bump that down by a couple or few mg at all?

Are you aware of all four of the online sub doctor locators? There is one at the top of each forum page (suboxone-directory.com), and then there's also naabt.org, samhsa.gov, and suboxone.com. They do not all list the same doctors, so you should check out each directory. Also, some psychiatrists prescribe suboxone but don't advertise such.

Additionally, do you have a family doctor that might be able to help you out? Are you taking sub for pain at all? Any doctor can prescribe suboxone off-label for pain control without the special DEA waiver (DATA 2000). It might be worth a try to ask if all the other avenues run dry.

Just some thoughts for you to consider. If I were you, I would start out by cutting down on my dose to the absolute minimum that I would need to get by.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:50 am 
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Here's the update to the sudden closing of the synergy counseling program in Vermont,well as I explained he just up and shut the whole place down without notice,even his employee's only found out the day of the closing through an e-mail on April fools day,anyways frustrated frantic took place for all and everyone involved,for me my wife goes to a different treatment program in another town so after finding out that synergy had unexpectedly closed its doors to all immediately went there for an intake interview,I was told it could be a six month wait but did what i felt i needed to cover anything for the future,the synergy counseling program just up and shutting their doors the way they did drew the attention of the media and it quickly became part of the news and another drug and alcohol business program stepped up to help and with all the attention it opened the eyes to a lot of people in the public as to what an epidemic and the concerns and so many of the other important words i would like to use but am not that great to put them in the right places when writing,but this may have been a good thing politically as well to get the attention of what this little orange pill or strip means to the lives of so many millions out there,Well since a well known drug and alcohol program has stepped up the program is back up and running with much of the same employee's and obviously the same addicts,they are doing a trial to see how things go and for that "thank god" and those out there i am back on schedule with my dose and life,this maintenance needs more publicity and folks need to know or at least understand the importance and good of suboxone,I thank you and any others for any and all the advice and help that you have offered me to help me to get prepared for what could have been a torchering night mare and more and for any assistance in guiding me in the right direction to get help elsewhere,also for now i am in search for a back up plan due to knowing in the back of my mind that something like this could rise again,those where many questions you had and i cant go back to see them while i am writing but yes i tried to ween myself sparingly but didn't do very well,yes i had enough to get me through due to the fact they reopened and i had just got my prescription the day before they closed,I am on 14 milg daily just dropped to 12milg,,started 4 years ago with 20 milg,any how I'm still here and a member so thanks so much to all for concern and interest,

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:20 am 
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I need to add that although many folks and employees that were and are very upset and pissed off as to the way this guy and his wife closed up shop and didn't give warning or deal with anyone along with the employees that didn't get their paychecks and cheating medicaid among others and other parts of the business I need to say that even though the end result of their closing was dealt with in a totally wrong and Fucked up way that they did start something that has helped and that has made a huge difference in so many folks lives including mine,If it weren't for them takeing the initial step in trying to help folks then we would not be here today with a new outlook on life and the change that made the difference would probably never had happened,So the beginning results were the utmost of greatness just the end result on their part was a pussy way out,and i still give thanks and so does my family and friends,for many that have been successful through the maintenance of suboxone and their program the out come may have been dealt with so much differently but now we look at it as knowledge forgiveness and thankfulness,four years ago that would not have been my thinking versus,,,,I wont even say it

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:14 pm 
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I'm really glad it worked out for you in the end man. I can totally imagine the fear that arises when your source of Suboxone just vanishes into thin air. It'd probably be a similar feeling to when I went to get my methadone supply for the holiday period when the pharmacy was closed, only to find it had closed 20 minutes early and I missed the boat. That was a painful 4 days! But it was only 4 days, not indefinite like what you were facing.

I guess you just never know the reasons why people just drop the ball on a clinic like yours. It sounds like something we would do in addiction; just bail on our responsibilities. Who knows? Maybe the docs had some issues of their own!

Sometimes I wonder myself what would happen if say there was a massive world conflict and there was a mass shortage of Suboxone, and medicines in general. We would all be hanging out quite bad. I'd also probably turn into Charlie Sheen without my lithium!


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 Post subject: Hows this for a scenario
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 5:07 pm 
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The American economy is now floating on the head of a pin and any catastrophe can knock it off. Congress is about to raise the debt ceiling another couple of trillion dollars. Every tax dollar collected is merely enough to cover social security, medicare and medicaid- everything else must be borrowed including for military spending, 1.8 trillion this year. Every other country wants to dump the dollar as the world reserve currency and the fed is debating QE3. Unemployment is up over 9% again and commodities including food and fuel are ready for hyperinflation. Now... the economy crashes, the dollar goes to zero, bank runs, rioting on the street, Katrina in every part of the country, Martial law... no doctors, no cops, no order, God help us all

That's one reason to get off now! Don't think it can happen? Do your own homework, I did


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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 7:47 pm 
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rockblaster wrote:
The American economy is now floating on the head of a pin and any catastrophe can knock it off. Congress is about to raise the debt ceiling another couple of trillion dollars. Every tax dollar collected is merely enough to cover social security, medicare and medicaid- everything else must be borrowed including for military spending, 1.8 trillion this year. Every other country wants to dump the dollar as the world reserve currency and the fed is debating QE3. Unemployment is up over 9% again and commodities including food and fuel are ready for hyperinflation. Now... the economy crashes, the dollar goes to zero, bank runs, rioting on the street, Katrina in every part of the country, Martial law... no doctors, no cops, no order, God help us all

That's one reason to get off now! Don't think it can happen? Do your own homework, I did


Amen, dude! You are obviously paying attention. Many people still don't even know what 'world reserve currency' means. It means everything!! Once we don't have the luxury of everyone using dollars to pay for oil, the price of oil and everything else is going to go way up. Simple supply and demand. Significantly less demand for dollars = dollars worth significantly less. If I owed 3 million dollars, I could work ten jobs and not pay it off. I see no way out of this. We have to go down before we can go back up. Honestly, the financial position of this country is one of the main reasons I don't want to be dependent on anything. We've personally been worried about this for a while, so we've been heavily investing in silver. I strongly recommend everyone do this. The dollar can do what it does, but silver and gold will never be worth nothing. Even our kids have to put a portion of their allowances into silver. They've been making out too! We bought a good generator and are stocking up on canned food, water, first aid stuff...ammunition.....

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 8:01 pm 
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Hi Ladder- I too own much silver as well as a food supply, 1000+ gallons fuel and enough guns and ammo to arm a platoon of Marines. That said when the dollar gets dumped hyperinflation will hit America in ways that will make the great depression seem like a trip to Disneyland. I am fortunate as I live in the mountains on acreage and owe no man anything. It sounds like you and your husband are getting squared away as well. Congratulations! I have many friends in the survival camp geared with communications so we can protect our community from the looters that will come.
I didn't mean to get off topic or hijack this thread, just to give food for thought. God Bless


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:56 am 
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rockblaster wrote:
The American economy is now floating on the head of a pin and any catastrophe can knock it off. Congress is about to raise the debt ceiling another couple of trillion dollars. Every tax dollar collected is merely enough to cover social security, Medicare and Medicaid- everything else must be borrowed including for military spending, 1.8 trillion this year. Every other country wants to dump the dollar as the world reserve currency and the fed is debating QE3. Unemployment is up over 9% again and commodities including food and fuel are ready for hyperinflation. Now... the economy crashes, the dollar goes to zero, bank runs, rioting on the street, Katrina in every part of the country, Martial law... no doctors, no cops, no order, God help us all

That's one reason to get off now! Don't think it can happen? Do your own homework, I did


WOW, talk about propaganda. You want to see an economic collapse bigger than the Bush Great Recession, the surest way is to politicize the raising of the debt ceiling.

Remember when the Teapublicans wanted to extend the tax cuts for the wealthy (further blowing-up the deficit), all they said was 'the market hats uncertainty, blah, blah, blah. Well, to even talk about letting the US default is the epitome of infusing uncertainty into the market. Remember when the Democrats took congress in 2006, did they hold Bush and the country hostage to get their agenda passed?? Of course you don't, it didn't happen.

As for advocating treatment vs. punishment of addicts, access to health-care, and general judging of addicts, I don't know why any addict would want Teapublican rule.

As for the deficit, easy solutions:

--make all income taxable for Social Security (currently, any income over like 88k is not taxed. WTF?)

--Super rich people should not get Social Security, as they have no need for it and we all need to sacrifice blah blah blah

--Return the tax rate for people over $250k to Clinton-era levels. Leave tax rates as they are for the rest of the 98% of the country.

--End the wars!

--Let Medicare bargain for the price of drugs. Bush's Medicare Part D doesn't allow Medicare to get wholesale pricing!!!

--Reduce the massive and bloated defense budget like 5%


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:07 pm 
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I know no one here wants to get into a political argument. And to be honest, I feel that our 2 party political system is just a distraction (like a ball game) to keep people arguing while the uber-rich loot the country.

But I am glad to see like minded people here. I often talk about the coming (or already present) economic collapse, and people just laugh it off like I'm a debbie-downer. But anyone who turns off the mainstream news outlets and looks at what's really going on will come to the inevitable conclusion. I am investing in heirloom seeds, and hope to God I will be able to grow them when the time is right. We also are raising chickens, and live on the edge of excellent hunting grounds. So I'm pretty lucky. But I hope others will do what is necessary. It's not going to happen overnight, but commodities are going to get increasingly expensive while the dollar gets weaker and weaker.

If anyone is interested in some good articles check out alternet.org

My apologies to the original poster. I'm glad your program was able to re-open with new supporters. VT is a wonderful state, and very progressive. I'm seriously thinking of heading that way when things go to shit.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:17 pm 
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Lillyval wrote:
I know no one here wants to get into a political argument. And to be honest, I feel that our 2 party political system is just a distraction (like a ball game) to keep people arguing while the uber-rich loot the country.

But I am glad to see like minded people here. I often talk about the coming (or already present) economic collapse, and people just laugh it off like I'm a debbie-downer. But anyone who turns off the mainstream news outlets and looks at what's really going on will come to the inevitable conclusion. I am investing in heirloom seeds, and hope to God I will be able to grow them when the time is right. We also are raising chickens, and live on the edge of excellent hunting grounds. So I'm pretty lucky. But I hope others will do what is necessary. It's not going to happen overnight, but commodities are going to get increasingly expensive while the dollar gets weaker and weaker.

If anyone is interested in some good articles check out alternet.org

My apologies to the original poster. I'm glad your program was able to re-open with new supporters. VT is a wonderful state, and very progressive. I'm seriously thinking of heading that way when things go to shit.


I was one of the people who kept laughing it off. You are so right, though, that you have to turn off the tv news and start reading the real numbers behind all this. I don't believe any political candidate can get us out of this at this point. It's gotten too far out of hand, and any measures that try to get us back on track will only be seen as punishing the people on whom they place sacrifices. Nobody can win an election by promising to take a whole bunch of stuff away now because it will benefit everyone later. No one can win an election if they tell the truth about how dire this situation is. Sometimes you have to go down before you can go up. I don't want this to be the case, but at this point, I think it is reality.

Here's another great link, if anyone wants to listen to it/watch it. It's very clear and concise.

http://www.stansberryresearch.com/pro/1 ... PSIM305/PR

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:26 pm 
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Hey psychopiatistic ...... Funny how everyone on this post topic can write and NEVER bash anyone, But you have to bash Bush and the Tea party, look what happened last November, record number of Dems removed from office, even Dem. dog catchers were replaced.... I'm sorry your a sore loser, America can no longer afford people like you who want everyone to be taxed to death so a few can set at home on there fat ass's .. People with money worked for it , and liberals need to keep there paws off of it.. My money is my money and I'm not going to let THIS government blow it... laddertripper , you are much cooler than I ever thought..


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:29 pm 
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Well, thank you, Painter. Really, I don't see how all this vilifying of the wealthy and of corporations makes any sense to anyone. There are no 'bad guys'. Talk about simplifying an issue so severely that you completely miss the point!! Aren't we dependent on the wealthy to pick up the lion's share of all the governmental programs and maintenance of infrastructure? Aren't we dependent on corporations to give us....ummmm....jobs?!

Personally, my husband and I went without many, many things (like cable and cell phones and eating out) for years so we could pay for him to get his degree and then his master's. We were broke. We got by, though, and we paid our own way. He got a better job with a big pay increase, which meant tons more hours. Maybe it would have been worth it, except we were paying over 60% of our income in taxes. All that work to be punished....makes pretty much zero sense, IMO. We have the highest corporate tax rates in the world, yet we need to punish corporations by taxing them more.....okay, but then if they pick up and and move overseas for cheaper operating costs they are evil too. Right?

I am just so sick of people thinking they can rely on the government to pick up the tab for this or that, because we ARE the government and WE are picking up the tab. I have no faith that the majority will understand how important this is, because so many people have gotten complacent and comfortable and bought into this stupid lie that the bad guys are taking all the money and being mean to the poor people. It's much easier to believe the 'other side' is responsible for all the evils and problems. That's just stupidity, though. Keep believing something that simplistic BS at your own risk. Yikes, this country has to reset itself.

It's pretty cool, though, to see just how many people are clued in!! Rockblaster, good for you!! We're doing pretty well. I still want to get a big garden in and learn to can. There's lots of hunting here; we have plenty of ammo. I feel a huge responsibility about this because of my kids, KWIM?

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:14 pm 
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Painter wrote:
Hey psychopiatistic ...... Funny how everyone on this post topic can write and NEVER bash anyone, But you have to bash Bush and the Tea party, look what happened last November, record number of Dems removed from office, even Dem. dog catchers were replaced.... I'm sorry your a sore loser, America can no longer afford people like you who want everyone to be taxed to death so a few can set at home on there fat ass's .. People with money worked for it , and liberals need to keep there paws off of it.. My money is my money and I'm not going to let THIS government blow it... laddertripper , you are much cooler than I ever thought..


Hmm, not sure where I bashed anyone. That would be you doing the bashing in response to truth. Just stated some facts, sorry. Can you point to something showing that a 'record' number of dems. seats were lost, please? I thought it was a pretty standard off year election, pretty comparable to 1982. Pretty telling that the Senate stayed in the hands of the incumbent party (first time ever that the house changed hands w/o the senate doing the same, I believe).

As for calling me a sore loser?? What non-sense. Um yeah, I'm sure that you accepted that slur when Obama was trying to get something through the record number of filibusters in the Senate. Just the usual hypocrite. I'm sure you were demanding 'up or down votes,' when the Republicans had power, but wholeheartedly lobbied for obstructionism when it came to Obama's agenda and nominees.

I'm totally willing and capable to have a rational and consensus building discussion. I can say that we need a govt for, by, and of the people that needs checks and balances. However, most conservatives these days seem to confuse crony oligarchical capitalism that is corrupting the people's government for actual capitalism....And before you call me whatever 'ism' or 'ist' is en vogue these days, let me tell you that there is absolutely nothing wrong with making money. I enjoy it heartily as part of a balanced life (even if it has gotten me in trouble, as it is pretty hard to quit addiction when resources are not even a consideration, you know). That said, profit is not a holy word. Some things are better left to be managed for, by, and of the people, especially these days where a corporation and PACs somehow have the 1st amendment powers of an individual, despite the constitution not granting such.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:02 pm 
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When I first made the post that caused all this controversy I wasn't laying blame, but merely stating where we have landed as a nation. If the truth were to be told it goes back to the ratification of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. Every administration shares in culpability. Our country is broken and I believe we have waited too long to repair the damage. Headlines this morning claim that we have 60+ trillion in unfunded liabilities which equals more than half a million dollars for every family in America. We have kicked the can down the road for far too long and now we must deal with it.


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read a few posts, sorry for getting off topic i agree withs stripper, and the mountains guy, thats the way to go, i wish ym parents would stock up on food, get a generater, and invest in silver i have been saying that for years. this to whoever said we should have obamacare. if universal heath care ever got passed, everyone that wants suboxone would be fucked. Everyone would be trying to get it, and most likly alot of places would have to shut down. This country is about to collapse. dem/rep, they all the same agenda, but off topic i know i'm voting for Ron Paul.
(don't feel like spell checking)
Anyway, thats too bad your program shutdown. This is why i never want to be on suboxone more than a year. i have been on it since February. attend 4classes a week, now down to 2 a week, since i attend AA everyday and got a sponsor. Hopfully everything works out for you. I do not want to be dependent on anything any more. I want to be free. IMO if you plan on taking suboxone for life, it's the same as any other drug, just cheaper, and you don't get high. I could see for chronic pain people to stay on suboxone for life. From what i have learned it's good for 6months to a year, get your life in order get a treatment plan in place, (aa/na, sponsor), a GOOD support group, and be weaned off it. I'm down to 8mgs now, and excited to get off it. I wish you the best of luck.


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 Post subject: OMG!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:23 am 
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Maybe I read that wrong, but did you call me a 'stripper', spike? I think I'm gonna pee my pants. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Hell, there's worse things a person can be....

ladderStRipper

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 Post subject: HOLY SHIT!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:17 am 
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What ta fuck,my computer gets cramped up for a couple months and i come back for an update just to read 20 minutes of politics and future canned goods,I really would have thought one of you would have just opened a new topic elsewhere,This one is Shot in my opinion and fuck the update!You folks didn't say anything about my topic did yea think it was open house?just think how you would react if yea open your topics and find that everyone is talking about (well its all above)Christ!,,I'll get over it but for now im just going to melt a 8 mg suboxone strip and i have a lot of them i don't hope your out!!!how inconsiderate and that's being polite!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:49 am 
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IBenThere2,

I'm sorry you returned to your thread to update us on how you're doing only to see that it went off in an undesirable direction. I don't blame you for being upset. Please know it has nothing to do with you or people not caring about you.

But unfortunately, the nature of online forums is such that these things happen sometimes. Please understand when this happens it's not usually done with malice aforethought.

I hope you return to update us. I know we are still interested in what's going on with you. So please reconsider and come back to give us an update on your situation and how you are doing.

I sincerely hope you are doing well these days. Again, I'm sorry this thread went a bit off the rails, but it does happen. Take care.

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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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