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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:26 pm 
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I asked my doctor that question and his answer was Tramadol, also known as Ultram. Well, this poses a problem with me because back when I stopped using all drugs to be induced with Suboxone, Tramadol was one of my DOC. I was taking upwards of 15-20 per day on top of the same amount of Hydrocodone with a Soma chaser.

Did I tell my Dr. about my old Tramadol addiction? No, because I wanted to try it again and see if I could take it without abusing it. That was over a week ago and the most I've taken was one dose 5 out of 7 days. Unlike before, with the Suboxone in my system I don't feel it at all and don't think about it either after I take my dose. It does seem to help a bit with the pain I have so that is nice. He said the best combo would be to take two Tramadols with two Aleve. So far so good. He did say that the drug isn't an opiate. That much I do know and I'll need to Google it again to find out how it acts like one. And as most of us know, taking Tramadol while in w/d's does help lessen the effects. Especially from Hydro. Plus, most all doctors will tell you it's not addicting.


There have been discussions about this drug here before but nothing really in depth. What do you all think? Am I playing with fire or is this drug an acceptable painkiller. Plus, now I wonder if it would help with Sub w/d's? Has anyone ever tried stopping Bup using Tramadol as a buffer? Hmmmm, something to maybe consider as long as it's not abused.

Some people feel it and some don't. Obviously I felt it or I wouldn't have had the addiction to it. For those who have never felt the effects of Ultram, it is almost similar to Suboxone. It gives me a feeling of well being and lifts my mood. Its effects are very slight but good. Good enough to want more and more.

That's my current situation right now. I'm just wondering what you all think about it.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:26 pm 
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If you don't have a problem with taking it, as far as it being a potential trigger or relapse drug (which you don’t), then do whatever works best for your pain. It's certainly not a very strong pain killer compared to some, but nonetheless it is still a pain killer and can be enough for some to relapse. I don't have any experience with it so I can't give you any insight in that regard but I think you should do what you think is the most effective. Just be honest with yourself and if you feel like you start to develop an issue with it, then take care of it as soon as you suspect something.

Just out of curiosity, how does suboxone work for pain?


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 Post subject: Pain Question
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:30 pm 
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Hey Fireman,

Considering Buprenorphine is supposed to be given in micro doses for pain it actually works okay. Nothing like the old days of getting numb from some 5/500 Vicodins. Those days seem so long ago.

Sub was all I had that did anything after my surgery. The obvious problem is tolerance, not so much the blocking of receptors. It took 2½ weeks of taking Lortab 10's before I felt them. In my brain if I can't feel the buzz they aren't working. Whatever, I was pleased to go back on my Sub after chasing a buzz from hydro. An addict through and through. I do wish they would have offered some tramadol back then. It may or may not have done much, but at least let me try it and see. My pain was really bad and I was fit to be tied because my doctor wouldn't give me adequate pain relief. I hope I never go through that again. But if I do, and have the time beforehand, I know what to do. Taper to 1 mg or less and stop two weeks before surgery. Then I would need to convince my surgeon to give me hydro leading up to the surgery date. Then it will work okay.

We do have chronic pain patients here who swear Sub works good for them. Who's to argue?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:07 am 
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I don't know how well tramadol will work for sub withdrawals, but that's what I used to take when I would run out of my oxycodone prescription. It didn't work perfectly, but it worked. So I imagine that tramadol would help, perhaps in conjunction with clonidine. Tramadol has never gotten me any kind of high, so it's never been tempting for me. Right now you're not feeling the tramadol either, so maybe you can take it as prescribed and get the pain relief from it without being in danger of abusing it. It's worth a try since you've been in pain.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:36 am 
Ah the old tram train. The VA practically hands out bags of ultram or motrin. Usually whatever one you ask for. It is pretty much the only thing that works with subs. It has good synergy. And i've done tramadol 50mg with subs.. About 200mg of tram with 8mg of sub. To me it was like active addiciton for sure. I felt the tram's fine. and it had me nodding a little bit to. This is the only time i have EVER nodded on tramadol. Be careful I think it's playing with fire! It lowers the seizure threshold and it also acts as a anti-depressent so i think if you take these for awhile. Not even sub will be able to cover the withdraw from the anti depressent activities.

Prob a good choice for pain relief though. : )


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 Post subject: The Tram Train
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:20 pm 
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Oh Great, Thanks Will for putting that little bit of info for my vampire to salivate over. You say if I take 200 mg's I'll feel it, right? That was not what I was hoping to hear. My Dr. said two would work well and that's 100 mg's. If I do what you did then it's abuse and I might as well toss out the meds. Funny how I don't feel two of them.

I know you were trying to help and thanks for that. The topic was posted so I could read everyone's opinion. I just didn't think one of them would cause a craving. Not a bad one, and not one I'll act on. If I can't feel 2, then my guess is I wouldn't feel 4. And yes you're correct Amy. As long as I can take them as prescribed then it shouldn't be a problem.

The tram subject really hasn't been discussed very much here and I do wonder how many other opiate addicts are taking it. Five years ago I went cold turkey off my Norco's. Started going back to AA meetings hoping it would help relieve the cravings. It didn't. But I did run into another alkie/addict like myself and he told me his doctor gave him Ultram and it works really good. I didn't have the heart to tell him they are addicting too so he went on his merry way. That's my point. Is this a drug that a lot of us can use in combo with Bup?

I will do my very best not to abuse my meds. So far I have only taken two once per day. It says to take 1 or 2 every 4-6 hours so IMO I'm doing pretty good......until Will said that!!! Nah, it's okay. We'll see how it goes in the long term.

Thanks for the responses my friends.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:04 am 
Hey you clearly asked for opinions on this. Sorry, but im not going to sugar coat the negative aspect of this drug as it's a very realy possibility to get crazy with these. But like alot of people are saying. If you take it as prescribed it shouldn't be a problem. Just like if we had a oxy script and only took what is prescribed for that day. BUT... If anyone is like me. That taking something only as prescribed will only last for so long. It's seriously the only thing combined with subs that does a ok job in my opinion. But I personally would avoid those. That is some peoples DOC ya know.

Please don't give me a hard time because im going outside the box and giving you real experiences with that stuff. I take pain killers in excess and this is my view on it. Of course if you play by the rules you won't get burned. I feel as though you are only liking the posts that are justifying the tramadol use. So don't let me be the one to spoil your use of this drug. But im sorry. It's a fine line between using and abusing. I'm sure you know most of this though.

Good luck with it. The combo WORKS. But im weary telling someone with a opiate addiction who is on subs to take tramadol daily aswell. Sorry, some things im not comfortable with agreeing with. This is one of em based on my previous use of subs and trams. But, i guess take it with a grain of salt. Or continue to justify it by saying how you only going to take it as prescribed. I just remember saying the same thing sooooooo many times with pain pills. ::sigh:: good luck Rule.


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 Post subject: Said it wrong
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:02 am 
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Will,

When I went back and read the way I typed it to you I realized you'll probably take it the wrong way. I was just poking fun at the idea of getting a little craving after reading your post. It was meant to be light humor but I didn't quite word it that way. I always like reading your posts. You do put decent thought into them.

Thanks for always telling it like it is. No one here, including me wants any opinion sugar coated. You just keep doing what you've always done. Sorry for making it sound bad.

And BTW, so far there has been no problem with taking two. As long as I don't feel any effect from them then it will work okay as an addition to my OTC meds.

Rule

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:07 am 
That is what i hate about reading a post. You don't get the tone in which is was supposed to come across to someone. My subdoc told me that is what he would prescribe for pain if that's something that is needed. Little does he know i got loads of ultram laying around from the VA :twisted: I'll only take if it i really need it. I noticed my breathing would get pretty shallow sometimes from the combo. Stacking CNS depressants, i suppose.

Sorry to get jumpy or defensive. Thanks for the compliment though! Seriously though. I think that this is the only med with bupe that could be used together and actually really work. lol tram train. Don't mean to get ya thinking about using though. I wonder if bupe and tramadol may lower the seizure threshold even further. Using one or two certainly is ok though. 4 at a time like i used to experiment with. Not so good. Very easy to get hooked back into the ritual of getting buzzed. By any combo necessary.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:30 am 
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One thing I notice, Rule, is that tramadol started to make my heart race even if I wasn't taking overly high levels. It is a possible side effect, so just keep it in mind.

Amy

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 Post subject: So Far So Good
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:51 pm 
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The main danger I was concerned with in taking tramadol was feeling high and wanting more. So far that hasn't happened and for the last week or so I have been able to take them w/o any issues. I don't even take them everyday or more than once per day unless my pain is really bad.

It is my belief that I don't feel the effects of the tramadol because I am taking Suboxone. That is a good thing because now I have one more med I can take when it gets bad and not have to worry about addiction to it. This post was more like a diary of testing an addictive drug on an addict to see how he'd use or abuse it. So far so good. I hope this may help others in pain although they will need to test it like I did.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:29 pm 
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I do take Tramadol with buprenorphine as needed and I have not had any major problems; it's been about two years. I typically take 100mg twice daily if I do; I have never taken more than that and often less. I've never 'felt' anything except pain relief to a greater degree than NSAIDS. I'd always been leery of this medication because when it first hit the market as Ultram and was 'non addictive' a friend had a seizure that was almost fatal taking 15ish 50mg tablets. I've also always been leery of the effects tramadol has essentially as a SNRI. These types of fears likely would not have stopped me from attempting to abuse tramadol if I was not on buprenorphine at a maintenence dose but I am and thus have not in more than two years have had any problems taking tramadol as prescribed and as needed for pain.

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