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 Post subject: What's the hurry here?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:54 pm 
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[font=Courier New] [/font]] I feel as though this is long overdue. I turn on my computer or mobile app to check out the forum as I normally do to gain more and more incite about this medication called Suboxone and how to manage to lead a happy life while on it through the undeniable experience of thousands of other opiate addicts...just like me. It wasn't until just recently that my neighbor, POC, good friend, confidant, sponsor, fellow Suboxone patient and I noticed that post after post and thread after thread were mostly about getting off this life saving medication. There are very few, if any, posts about the positive things that this medicine does for us or just a post stating where one in in their personal recovery with Suboxone. This is extremely surprising to me for more reasons than I care to type. Anyways. I just want the possible newcomers to suboxone to see that it's okay to be on this medicine for as long as they want to take it. We should applaud the person that has not picked up heroin in 3 years thanks to suboxone, not tell them it would be even better if they got off of it. I guess what I am really getting at/bothered by is how much praise someone gets for managing to get through the withdrawal symptoms of getting off suboxone, but then you rarely hear from that person again. I am a firm believer in the fact that suboxone alone won't keep you clean and it won't magically give you recover from this almost always deadly disease. That's what gets to me. What is the rush to stop taking a medicine that is keeping you happy, healthy, and alive in so many words? But even if I humor the idea of rushing off because it is "trading one drug for another" or even if you just have a "enough is enough" attitude, what is your plan to stay clean for the rest of your life? There is a lot of hate towards NA or other fellowships due to them not liking you being on suboxone or various other reasons, but who really gives a shit? You do. That's it. You care that they don't like it and it's keeping you from solid recovery. So when you say this medicine is poison and you just are tired of dealing with it... think about the times when you are done with the WD and done being proud that you finally got off subs... then what? What can you fall back on now? How long will this last with little recovery? But. What do I know? Maybe a lot. Maybe nothing.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:07 pm 
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I readily admit this medication saved my life and my husband's life. It allowed us to achieve goals and relationships we would have never been able to without it. Before suboxone we wouldn't even make it a few days let alone a week or month clean. For us though, we did not want to be on it for life. I am 32 and want to start a family. I refused to get pregnant on suboxone (no offense to others that do.) I actually had an abortion while on it because my doc's only advice was switching back to methadone for the pregnancy. No way! So for me, besides the pure drive to be completely clean and abstinent from opiates, the rush was that I wasn't getting any younger. I wanted to be healthy for a baby and start the new chapter of family life.

Also, I had been on sub & methadone maint for almost 8 years combined so I don't think I was particularly in a hurry. I was more than ready and was stable both mentally, physically and even financially.

Another driving factor for me was my anxiety level. I suffered from panic attacks and general anxiety the longer I stayed on sub.


Edit to add:

I did my entire recovery without NA/AA. I've think I've gone to 2 meetings in 8 years. It wasn't for me so those factors you list above did not apply to me.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:54 pm 
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Thank you so much movie maker! Without sub, I don't know what would have become of me. I'm not going to be on it for life, but I'm in no hurry. Some have been calling it devil strips, not fair.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:43 pm 
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You do make a good point that focus has gone more on those who want to get off Suboxone lately. But is it necessary to get negative about the fact there's people here willing to encourage other's recovery choices, no matter what they are? It's like you're viewing us helping people who've chosen to get off Suboxone like it's some kind of attack on those who have chosen to stay on it. That couldn't be further from the truth, and if anything is an indictment on your own insecurity for choosing to stay on maintenance indefinitely.

It's in big letters up in the posting rules. This forum is for people who have made their choice whether it be for Suboxone, for Methadone, or for meetings and no meds. It just happens that recently there have been many people coming on here for support to stop taking Suboxone. Those threads are almost entirely in the "Stopping Suboxone" or "Bupe in the rearview mirror" forums.

When a person stops taking a drug, be it heroin, crack, alcohol, SNRI antidepressants or Suboxone ... it's pretty much universal that they remind themselves solely of the negatives of taking the drug, and neglect any positives. Maintaining their recovery, especially early on, almost depends on it. When a person's transferring from heroin to Suboxone, you don't hear them saying "heroin felt good, made me rich and really desirable to the opposite sex"... It's no different getting off Suboxone. It's a bit unfair to bitch about people saying bad things about Suboxone on sub-forums totally dedicated to getting off Suboxone. If you don't like people reading about how bad they feel in opioid withdrawal, then do the smart thing and stop reading the "Stopping Suboxone" and "Bupe in the rearview mirror" forums.

I might sound annoyed, but your subtle implication that all the people who get off Sub and disappear off the forum because they relapse is pretty low. If I got off Sub, it would take some real generosity of spirit for me to still wanna hang around a forum of people on Sub. When you spend most of your early recovery post Suboxone fighting cravings to take Suboxone or other opioids, it can be counterproductive to continue to hang around people still taking Suboxone, just like ex-smokers stop hanging around smokers when they quit. Maybe these people have just moved on in their recovery?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:21 pm 
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I think the majority of people who start suboxone feel that way. It can be a miracle drug. But not for everyone. We wouldn't have 20,000.00 people viewing how to taper if everyone felt that way. I personally viewed it as a saving grace till I realized it wasn't me. This isn't me. This isn't how I normally act. I don't normally last 2 hours in sex. I don't talk this much. At first I found it amazing. I can stay high! I can maintain! But it stopped being that. Quickly. Soon it was just there to not feel sick. But why do I need something to not feel sick? A lot of people feel that way. In my personal life right at this moment, I don't have much of anything good to think about subs. If you ever start getting side effects, often times incredibly horrible ones, and try to stop taking it, you may understand more. Months upon months of dedication needed. It's insane. That'll get attention. It's hard. It's scary. The fact its a massive battle where more time needs to be put in than a massive heroin addiction is frightening. I love Subs for allowing me to shape my life up. I don't love how misguided I became thinking all of my problems were solved. That's why I think there is a lot of focus on the negative. Take a look into the side effect forum. Everyone is different and I've seen plenty of positives on this forum. When I first joined I was so gun Ho on Hell yeah suboxone is the devil. I don't think that anymore, but if you ever need to stop - and quickly, your tune may change. And ridiculously fast I might add.

-WTBF


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:43 pm 
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MovieMaker, you bring up some really good points and I'm curious why you and your sponsor aren't doing more about it? Why don't you guys become more active members of this forum and welcome the newcomers, help those who do want to get on or maintain on Suboxone and try to speak to those who have decided to get off Suboxone about how continued recovery is so important for them.

As for giving members praise and encouragement for getting off of Suboxone, I do that pretty regularly here and the reason I do that is because I have been through a particularly wicked Suboxone wd and I found it a "passion" of mine to help others who are suffering through the same ordeal. I usually try pretty hard to not encourage folks who are on Suboxone to get off of it, but for those who have made the decision to get off of it, I'll support them by giving them praise and encouragement and whatever other kind of motivation I can give them. Also, as these folks move through their wd and I think the timing is right, I usually try to start talking to them about longer term recovery. When someone is in the middle of the hell of wd, the last thing they want to hear about is long term recovery.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:32 pm 
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Movie Maker, absolutely DOES bring good points to the table.....

I believe we have a lot from both "sides of the fence" around here..... and I guess members talk ALOT more freely than they used to about how they actually feel about suboxne, especially when coming off it.
it's like amy said the other day, if you "need" to view suboxone as evil, to be sucessful in coming OFF it, then so be it!!!

honestly, sometimes I think suboxone may be over-perscribed..... Im not meaning to piss anyone off or anything like that,
but I KNOW IM not ready to come off it.....

It's actually a struggle for ME< to NOT do heroin, or mainline pure opiates on a regular basis, even ON SUBOXONE....so I'm definitely "comfortable" sticking with what works.....

when I read about people going on suboxone from norco perscriptions,,, I think, man that's what i was doing when I was 20 or 21,,, I still had 8 years of progressive addiction in FRONT of me, before I actually got help.

but nobody ever heard of suboxone back then either.

I don't have all the answers,,, that's for sure!!!!

That's why I write on my blog once a week, too...... to show people you can live
a happy, healthy life ON suboxone, without everyone knowing.
(obviously some people know!!)

thanks for your post movie maker, it IS a good reminder.

and on a side note, there isn't a whole lot of support "out there" for those trying to come OFF suboxone, either.
(not positive, encouraging support I think is what Im trying to say)

Okay, I've rambled on long enough!!!

thanks for reading!! :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:22 am 
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I see what movie maker is saying.

There are alot of people who come on here and want to taper. There are many reasons for this. Some have side effects, some dont feel truly clean, some hate their doctor, some cant afford it. The list goes on and on.

I agree that the new comer to this site who is happy with sub may not see alot of posts. But really it is our job to support the recovering addict no matter what they choose.

I like to say positive stuff about sub because I feel like it is helping mr save my life. When I began to use needles I knew that I wouldnt last long.

Moviemaker I encourage you to spread the positive word with me here. That is a big reason I stick around.


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 Post subject: NO RUSH HERE!!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:22 am 
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I have been on suboxone for the past 7 years, well almost. The first time I was treated with Suboxone it really helped me, I loved having my life back, but like you say it wasn't just the suboxone alone, I also strengthened my relationship with my family and my faith in Jesus Christ. After 4 1/2 years I got caught up on the whole "it's just a drug for a drug" thing, which it is but my mindset was negetive, and was motivated from reading other posts about people quitting suboxone. Well I decided I would quit, and I did. I was clean for a WHOLE MONTH before the temptation hit me one day while at my regular doctor for a checkup. That one little slip up caused me to go from lortab 5's to all the sudden eating Oxys 80's with my pancakes. My relationships with family and church grew weak, as did I. Long story short, and jail time also,I went back to my sub doctor in mid 2010 and just may need to be on suboxone for the rest of my life and I'm proud of it!!! I have never been more happy in my life. I have totally changed everything. Now, I really don't know if I will be on suboxone for the rest of my life, and I also don't know how to know when the time is right, but I have a feeling that its just one of those things that happen. My friends, don't learn the hard way like I did. It's ok to be on this drug. People will always judge you, just smile and keep on living the good, sober, life. Use suboxone only as your tool for recovery, but don't rush it.

PS--Exercise really helps with the fatigue I get sometimes with suboxone!!

James


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 Post subject: Re: NO RUSH HERE!!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:17 pm 
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Imgillt1 wrote:
may need to be on suboxone for the rest of my life and I'm proud of it!!! I have never been more happy in my life. I have totally changed everything. Now, I really don't know if I will be on suboxone for the rest of my life, and I also don't know how to know when the time is right, but I have a feeling that its just one of those things that happen. My friends, don't learn the hard way like I did. It's ok to be on this drug. People will always judge you, just smile and keep on living the good, sober, life. Use suboxone only as your tool for recovery, but don't rush it.



my feelings EXACTLY 8)

and orange doll,,,, the whole 'IV' drug use,,, yes, the DAY I tried that 'route' the first time, I KNEW there was nothing
good around the corner......

I have changed EVERY SINGLE THING in my life, the ONLY things that are the same, is that I'm still married to the same
man and we still have our son......
our marriage is completely different though!!!

it's just like I said in my post above,,,,,
I still have urges, while ON suboxone, and I'm so afraid of doing drugs again, I think I'll just stick with what's
working ,,,, for now...

I've heard more than one "former suboxone patient" say
YOU'LL KNOW IT, WHEN YOUR READY
I'm banking on that, for now.


Nice post, james and orange doll , too :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: NO RUSH HERE!!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:49 pm 
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Imgillt1 wrote:
That one little slip up caused me to go from lortab 5's to all the sudden eating Oxys 80's with my pancakes.


Hey James. Have you considered the possibility that your time on Suboxone was what raised your tolerance, and made you need Oxy 80's instead of Lortab 10's? I know that after I went on Subutex the first time back in 2000, when I returned to using after, I needed more heroin to get high. I was pretty naive to opioids before I went on Subutex, only using heroin every 3-5 days. Same thing happened after I went on methadone the first time. Started on 30mg and it made me high, but my dose creeped up gradually to 90mg... then once I got off it and detoxed, then relapsed, after a few days of using I needed twice the amount of heroin to get high.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:36 pm 
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Orange doll wrote:
I see what movie maker is saying.

There are alot of people who come on here and want to taper. There are many reasons for this. Some have side effects, some dont feel truly clean, some hate their doctor, some cant afford it. The list goes on and on.

I agree that the new comer to this site who is happy with sub may not see alot of posts. But really it is our job to support the recovering addict no matter what they choose.

I like to say positive stuff about sub because I feel like it is helping mr save my life. When I began to use needles I knew that I wouldnt last long.

Moviemaker I encourage you to spread the positive word with me here. That is a big reason I stick around.


I agree with your post Orange Doll. I also think that it's a matter of the squeaky wheel getting the grease. The people who come on this site and post are often in some sort of crisis. If you're doing well and are happy about your life while on sub, you're not usually posting here asking questions. The people who need a lot of support are usually brand new to sub or trying to get off sub. If there is a post asking if someone is doing the right thing by staying on sub, I am right there to back that person up too.

I do see what you're saying, Moviemaker, and sometimes I notice the same thing.

Amy

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:06 pm 
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RE: TeeJay
Suboxone definitely raised my tolerance. I had been through months of trying to get clean on my own before going on Sub. Even though I wasn't successful in that I kept having slips, my tolerance at the time was next to zero. I went on Sub believing it was a medication that would help keep me clean, thinking that "partial agonist" meant it was weak. I had no idea, (and the doctor didn't fill me in), that bupe is a super powerful opiate and my tolerance was about to go through the roof. Had I known that, I would not have gone on Sub when I did. Maybe things would have eventually gotten worse and I would have ended up on Sub at some point anyway, who knows....


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:34 pm 
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I reckon they really need to start investigating alternatives to buprenorphine which have a ceiling effect kick in at a lower intensity than bupe. There are many people who need help for addiction whom have a level of dependence far lower than bupe's ceiling effect. All the members who can attest to feeling high when they first went on bupe is proof of that.

It's be great if we had a few more "sizes" to choose from...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:36 am 
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Thanks for all the replies! I just wanted to add that I use the mobile app now and that is what spurred my post. The reason is because it just brings up new posts and threads in no certain order other than time posted. And. Most all of them are getting off or negative. I truly understand encouraging words when someone is hurting and what not but sometimes it can harm more than help IMHO. If getting off suboxone is causing you to lose a job or not finish college ect. Then that is where I. Start to see it as negative. I have been on subs almost 2 years this time and have successfully gotten off of it before, but I didn't have anything in place to keep myself clean and went back on after ten months of struggling... but not using. I don't know if any of this sounds mean or insensitive but I am just trying to share my experience so people don't die, feel like they are wrong by taking this medicine, feel as though they need to get off of it because others are, ect. I guess we can agree to disagree on some things lol. Just keep the thought in mind if you decide to stop taking suboxone... What is next? Do I really know how to live clean? OR. Think about this question on or off suboxone. How solid is my recovery without suboxone?

Again. Sorry if I pissed anyone off lol. I am just sharing my own experience and thoughts based on my own experience.... And the prevalence of posts about getting off suboxone or negatives of suboxone and not a lot about the positives and ways it has improved our lives indefinitely. B-)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:28 am 
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I'm really glad you came back and clarified your position. Even from your original post, I thought you brought up some great points and now reading your last post, with the additional clarification you gave, I think your point is even stronger.

Here's kinda where I stand on the issue. In the past, when people have come here wanting to get off Suboxone, one of the first things I'd try to ask them is if they really think they're ready to get off Suboxone. Of course, they'd all say "yes, I know I'm ready." With some people, I'd prod them a little bit more about whether they're truly ready and I remember several people who I really didn't think were even close to ready and I told them that. They all still claimed to be ready to get off Suboxone.

When somebody is hell bent on getting off Suboxone, I don't know what to say to them anymore to try to get them to reconsider, so I offer my assistance to them during the wd process.

Now that you've come forward with your story, I now know of 3 or 4 people who have gotten off Suboxone and either got back on it or went back on drugs (one of them is in jail right now). Moving forward, I guess I now have more information to give these people who are wanting off Suboxone.

I don't know if it'll make a difference, but I'm sure willing to try.

Thanks again for bringing this subject up, it's an excellent topic.

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Last edited by Romeo on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:33 am 
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Stealing this quote from Bboy42287 -

"Yes these drugs saved our life's. But does that mean we have to give the rest of our life to these drugs?"

The problem I ran into on them is I lost all of my motivation. I started doing negatively at work. I started not helping as much around the house. I lost all motivation to do anything while on Suboxone. You may not be wrong by taking this medicine, but I think it's fair they get the entire picture of what's possible when you start this medicine. It's incredibly hard to stop. The amount of time and effort put forth once you do stop is just monumental, something that never effected me by say quitting oxy. Negative feelings are often talked about more then positive. It's just the way life works. You're more inclinded to complain, then appreciate.

Suboxone can do some amazing things. But why didn't you enrich your life when off for 10 months? Instead of struggling why not re-inenforce and get counceling to not end up back where you started. Granted you don't have a needle in your arm and that's great, but after 10 months you're only dealing with Mental. None of the prevalent horrible effects you experience in the first few months. Addicts will be Addicts, the entire reasoning for Suboxone was designed to get you off the original DOC. How do you not allow Suboxone to become your new DOC?

I could never imagine myself being a slave to something for so long. Knowing it's something I can very well cure by just not taking it anymore.

Maybe our minds work differently. I'm also young and in the very beginning stages of my process, no where near 10 months. But after this experience I'd rather eat glass shards than bother putting myself through this again.

I really Don't care for Suboxone. I won't ever put anyone down and I won't put down the great way it helped me originally, by sustaining my life and allowing myself to catch up with everything. However it also negatively impacted me and put me in a worse situation than while on Oxys, with my job potentially up in the air after months of motivational loss.

Either way, Yay or Nay for Suboxone, Theres positives and negatives. My Forum name alone should enforce my feelings about it.

WTBF


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:53 pm 
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WTBF,,,,,I'm glad that you said

""You may not be wrong by taking this medicine, but I think it's fair they get the entire picture of what's possible when you start this medicine. It's incredibly hard to stop. The amount of time and effort put forth once you do stop is just monumental, something that never effected me by say quitting oxy. Negative feelings are often talked about more then positive. It's just the way life works. You're more inclinded to complain, then appreciate.

Suboxone can do some amazing things. But why didn't you enrich your life when off for 10 months? Instead of struggling why not re-inenforce and get counceling to not end up back where you started. Granted you don't have a needle in your arm and that's great, but after 10 months you're only dealing with Mental. None of the prevalent horrible effects you experience in the first few months. Addicts will be Addicts, the entire reasoning for Suboxone was designed to get you off the original DOC. How do you not allow Suboxone to become your new DOC? ""


I just want to say I KNOW suboxone effects ALL of us differently.....

and you also said in your post, You are still young, and "early" in your journey....

maybe IF YOU HAD been using needles, living outta your car, LOST everything and THEN MORE to an
addiction/opiates..........

It didn't START that way with ME, either. and honestly, I QUIT LOTS of times, before I was even 25....
thing is, I ALWAYS STARTED AGAIN......ALWAYS.
and it was ALWAYS PROGRESSIVELLY WORSE......


so maybe for those of US that have stared suicide right in the FACE, we KNOW we are better off taking suboxone.

and this question, you asked.....

How do you not allow Suboxone to become your new DOC?


I'll tell you right at this VERY moment, I have 67 suboxone films AT the pharmacy......
I don't like paying $8 a piece for them, and I'm going to tell you I NEVER ONCE had methadone, oxy's, morphine,
or even VICODIN at the pharamacy with MY NAME ON IT<
longer than TWO HOURS.

If suboxone did ANYTHING For me, besides make me feel like a normal, human I'd be stealing, selling copper,
selling stolen jewelery, SOMETHING to get the CASH to get that DOPE outta the pharmacy!!!!

I'm not trying to BASH you or anyone else, here, don't take me the wrong way,
it's just that when I read stuff like the post above, I think,
well do YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHY????

I don't think you do.

you don't want to know the things I did to MAKE SURE I had opiates ONE MORE DAY......

and sometimes, I wonder if people that haven't been in THAT spot, should even go ON Suboxone???

I know that IF I ever decide to quit suboxone, I'm in for it, I get that.
thing is,
the REASON I went ON It, in the first place, was becuase I COULD NOT stop taking opiates!!
I tried and tried and tried.
I'd make it 48 hours in a detox, I'd make it 3 days at home, I'd ALWAYS start again. ALWAYS.

21 months TODAY since I started suboxone treatment.
and know what?
I'm 31 years old, now.... and 21 months (all added together) is the longest I've had OFF opiates since my
love affair BEGAN at 18.........(and I had done other drugs before that, the first time I smoked cocaine I was 15)

18 to 29....... alllll about the opiates!!
Of course it wasn't "bad" like stealing and shit, til I was 25 or so. I guess that depends on what "bad" is.....
age 23 i'd go to the ER every time I was out and couldn't find anything, wouldn't leave til they gave me a shot of SOMETHING
at 24, I had three different pain mngmt doctors....
by the time I was 25, I was selling at least 6 people's perscriptions, and you know, I had
all KINDS of other "hustles" going on......
only started using needles about the last 6months, heroin the last year. (snorted/smoked)
that's ONE THIRD of my LIFE, I spent chasing pills/opiates/heroin

this is just meant to be "food for thought"
of why some people choose to STAY on it.... I'm so scared of doing ANY of these things again.
and I definitely do NOT feel like a "slave" to suboxone, not at all.
Not with 67 sitting at the pharmacy,
a doctor who only charges me $25 per visit,
and Im only required to see every third month.

I mean I went thru that SAME thing to get BIRTH CONTROL PILLS.........

know what I mean????

I hope you can see things from my point of view a little bit. I totally get it from other's point of view,
where suboxone makes them feel zombie-like, or unmotivated, as you say.
side effects, SUCK that's for sure, and I totally understand the NEED to hate it almost, to be sucessful
at getting off it.
I'm totally behind what ANYONE wants to do, to BEAT OPIATE ADDICTION.....
even if it was to pray 24 hours a day, IF that works for YOU, then so be it!!!
becuase honestly, this disease just
TAKES TOO MANY OF US,
WAY TOO SOON.


and thats the saddest part

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


Last edited by amber4.14.11 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:05 pm 
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Wow. Great post. Couldn't of said it better myself. Loved it. I. I totally agree that there are a lot of folks who are pressed into taking subs and have no business on them. It just makes things worse in some aspects. I have been trying to get clean since I was 16 and just now starting to truly understand some things. I didn't mean to say anything to offend anyone, but sometimes things just can't be said any other way. I have tried no suboxone and then didn't stay off because it was still pure hell. I got a new job, new girlfriend, exercised, and went to some meetings but it still did nothing for my lack of life and depression. I. I felt completely empty even while trying to " enrich" my life. There are some people that will be fine without suboxone but im not one of them and I'm sure there are tons more. The guy that took a couple tramadol from a doctor and his wife made him go on suboxone because that was the medical answer is totally different than the guy shooting dope, robbing, cheating, forging checks, and selling everything he has to stay high are totally different when it comes to getting off suboxone and that is totally fine. But just because you are fine without it doesn't mean someone else will. Idk. I just hate to see others follow the path of similar mistakes as me if it can be prevented. Save you a lot of pain and suffering. Maybe I'm stupid sounding but I just wanted to say this stuff lol. My main point of this whole thing was don't let someone else's experience dictate if you get off suboxone or not, suboxone by itself won't keep you clean forever, and if you do choose to get off then make sure you have damn good recovery!! Lol. But. Id much rather take suboxone and have every person in the world hate me for it than to not take it and live like I was..... Anyone that has been to the lowest place of their life and has looked fearlessly at death with open arms because of the hopeless feelings that consume your entire existence...Should want to do everything that is humanly possible to stay as far away from going back to that as possible and for me suboxone is a huge step in that separation process. I'm finished with this topic here and thanks for all the great replies. I just hate to watch people die, go back out because of pain or not being protected, and that give up on suboxone because of some stupid reason because they think they got this disease whipped.... So. I did try to be happy without all opiates and suboxone... Did everything addicts do to stay happy and healthy.... But I still needed suboxone. If that makes me weak or stupid.... Then so be it. I have tried it both ways and this is the better one for me!!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:46 am 
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WTBF - I was EXTREMELY taken aback by your post, but then I remembered you said you were 22, so I think I can forgive your lack of life experience. Romeo just said it at the end of your thread, and I honestly hope you listen to him. Gettting off Sub, going through the WD, that is the EASY part. It is living life on life's terms, being an opiate addict without using opiates, that is the battle we must fight every day. To say to MovieMaker "at 10 months you're only dealing with the mental".....
TeeJay's friend just died a couple months off of Sub. It's not just difficult, it's dangerous. Be careful. Be vigilant. Above all, have some humility. Sometimes the compulsion to use hits us when we're on top of the world. It sounds like you have a great life, a beautiful wife and baby. I WANT you to succeed - so be open to what others are telling you.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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