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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:35 pm 
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laddertipper -

At this time, when a post is edited, there is a time stamp and a note on the post saying who edited it.

When a post is deleted, then it is just gone for good. This is why I personally do not like to delete posts. I will be working with the other mods to come up with a way to make the process more transparent so that if a moderator feels that the entire text of a post should be removed for some reason, there will be a record of who did it and there will also still be a record that a post was made and who made it.

Usually things that get deleted are along the lines of Spam (a post that is just made by someone trying to sell something or promote a different website and has no relevance to the forum) or if a member who has been deactivated or banned re-registers under a different name and starts posting inflammatory posts all over the forum. Another reason would be if a moderator warns someone not to continue posting attacks or debating the merits of Suboxone and they persist in doing so. I'm sure there have been posts deleted for other reasons as well, but these are the main ones that I can think of.

At this point, I'm not aware of what happened to the two posts on the Dr. Phil thread. If you want to PM them to me, I can try to figure out why they were deleted and I'd be happy to share any information that I can find out.

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 Post subject: Thanks
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:43 pm 
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Diary of a Quitter wrote:
laddertipper -

At this time, when a post is edited, there is a time stamp and a note on the post saying who edited it.

When a post is deleted, then it is just gone for good. This is why I personally do not like to delete posts. I will be working with the other mods to come up with a way to make the process more transparent so that if a moderator feels that the entire text of a post should be removed for some reason, there will be a record of who did it and there will also still be a record that a post was made and who made it.

Usually things that get deleted are along the lines of Spam (a post that is just made by someone trying to sell something or promote a different website and has no relevance to the forum) or if a member who has been deactivated or banned re-registers under a different name and starts posting inflammatory posts all over the forum. Another reason would be if a moderator warns someone not to continue posting attacks or debating the merits of Suboxone and they persist in doing so. I'm sure there have been posts deleted for other reasons as well, but these are the main ones that I can think of.

At this point, I'm not aware of what happened to the two posts on the Dr. Phil thread. If you want to PM them to me, I can try to figure out why they were deleted and I'd be happy to share any information that I can find out.


Thank you so much for taking the time to explain that. I'll PM you, but I wanted to thank you on here.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:30 pm 
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Thanks to both Ladder for asking this question and for DOQ for responding and proving the information. I was actually about to ask for some clarification as well since I thought we were told that when a post is deleted that there is some sort of record of that. I just clicked on the post titled

"FORUM CONCERNS...Recovery related"

and all that comes up is: "No posts exist for this topic"

Evidently this post now joins the [growing] list of those being deleted. Nothing else remains, no explanation exists, it's as if it never happened... as if the words were never written. Although, some of us know differently. I shudder to think how many hours of time people here put into posting to that thread. A dozen? Two dozen? More???

I don't have all the answers. I wish I did. I just know that I hate censorship. HATE HATE HATE it - nearly as much as I hate opiate addiction. Then again, I spent 20 years in journalism so I may be a bit biased in this area.

I have no doubt that the number of posts that get deleted pale in comparison to the number that are never touched. It's just that once that slippery slope is started, it's hard to know just how often it has gone on - especially when there really is no record of it or way to tell. It tends to make people think it happens a lot more than it probably really does. But just like taking that first opiate, the second and third are always easier. I'm sure that the 10th time the decision is made to delete a post is easier than the very first time. Hopefully you'll at least figure out how to maintain a record of it. It would be even better if it didn't happen in the first place. Then we would not need a record of it. Actually, I can much easier live with individual posts being removed for cause - but the entire thread??? Was each and every post on there in violation and needing to be removed?

Anyhow, thanks for the answers DOQ. They, and you, are appreciated.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:36 pm 
I see the "Forum Concerns" thread has been deleted. That was probably for the best, although I think some of it could have been salvaged. There were several posts within the thread that did not violate any forum rules, or any just plain ole "common courtesy" rules, in my opinion. But I understand that my opinion on that doesn't really matter.
There is one thing that I would like to hear (or read) somewhere here in the midst of all this. I would like to know that those who did violate the rules and who did very clearly engage in personal attacks of others and demeaned the recovery processes of others were warned and that further violations will result in some sort of consequences.
I was personally attacked overtly and fiercely on that thread and that post was allowed to stand for hours and hours....the better part of a day, if I'm not mistaken. There is no defending that kind of behavior. If I weren't able to consider the source or were less confident in who I am as a person, I would be extremely hurt.
There's been a lot said about how much time and effort some people have put into this forum. Well, so have I. I have spent a great deal of time and effort here and I know without a doubt that I have been an asset here, despite what a small handful of people might say. I haven't deserved what I got in return from a lot of people here. And if Hatmaker has been attacked or mistreated, she certainly doesn't deserve it either. She deserves a ton of credit for her work here and I'm pretty sure almost everyone here would agree with me on that.
Bottom line.....I have loved this forum. I have participated here for a long time and continued to contribute despite feeling that I was mistreated at times by one or two people. I have continued to participate because it has helped my recovery, because I am able to help others and because Dr. Junig encouraged me to continue to participate and I respect him and the work he does. I don't want to see this place disappear or deteriorate into what it has become here lately.
I feel strongly that I am owed an apology by Jackcrack for posting the things she posted about me which were read by many people. Frankly I'm more embarrassed for her than I am for myself, as I know what she said isn't true. But for those who don't know me....to be left to wonder if what was said is true, is very unfair to me.
I hope I'll get a response to this by a moderator. If you wonder why I didn't go 'private' or PM with this......1) because the comments that were made about me were public and I feel the issue should be cleared up in public. 2) I have made efforts in the past to reach out for answers from moderators and have been ignored.
Let be clear on one other issue. This is NOT about resentment or bitterness. I hold none. I type this while feeling quite serene and at peace. I am not angry and I am not hurt. I am only interested in seeing the right thing done. Until the right things are consistently done around here, I don't think the forum can move forward in a positve manner. I feel it is infinitely important that we all feel that we are treated equally here....that we can share our thoughts and ideas without fear....that there is someone watching out to ensure that the rules aren't being violated.....that there are no 'favorites' being played.....that there is no question that can't be asked.....and that we're all here in support of each other in RECOVERY, even if we don't agree on every little detail of life.
I hope everyone is able to stop now and think about something they're grateful for. I have done exactly that. I am grateful that I no longer have to abuse opiates everyday. I am grateful for loving friends and family. I'm grateful that I have access to buprenorphine to help me in my recovery. I'm grateful that I've had this site to turn for the last year and a half, as I've gained some special relationships here and obtained all kinds of wisdom and information here. And I'm grateful for a whole host of other things to numerous to mention right now!
I hope I'll get what I've asked for here, and I hope everyone is able to have a restful, peaceful evening!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:18 pm 
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If you look at the link for the "Forum Concerns: Recovery Related" thread, you will see that it now says:

Quote:
Moved: FORUM CONCERNS...Recovery related
[ Goto pageGoto page: 1, 2 ]


The "Moved" indicates that the thread has been moved. If it had been deleted, there would be nothing there at all. I left the "ghost" link for the thread there specifically so you guys could see that I just moved it.

The reason why you can't read that thread at the moment is because I moved it to the moderator board. After I reopened the thread, there were a few particularly nasty personal attacks there and it didn't look like it was going to get any better anytime soon.

If I'm not going to just delete or lock the thread, I need some time to go through it and address and/or edit some of the posts that really crossed the line. Since I don't want to be accused of being some kind of unilateral dictator/censor of the forum, I thought I would also try to get some other moderators to give their input on the situation. I have also PM'd Dr. Junig asking that he take a look at it.

Give me a little time you guys. I'm at work today but I've been trying to touch base and make sure that things are going ok. I am doing my best to handle this situation, and you can be assured that I dislike censorship as much as you do. That said, there are posts on that thread that are just straight-up hurtful and mean personal attacks that add nothing to the conversation and are in violation of the forum rules.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:08 pm 
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Setmefree - :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:20 pm 
An excerpt from my post on the previous page:

"There is one thing that I would like to hear (or read) somewhere here in the midst of all this. I would like to know that those who did violate the rules and who did very clearly engage in personal attacks of others and demeaned the recovery processes of others were warned and that further violations will result in some sort of consequences.".....
...."I was personally attacked overtly and fiercely on that thread and that post was allowed to stand for hours and hours....the better part of a day, if I'm not mistaken. There is no defending that kind of behavior. If I weren't able to consider the source or were less confident in who I am as a person, I would be extremely hurt.".....

I guess Jackcrack's 'laughing faces' are the only response I'm going to get from that.

Classy move!

Good night all!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:05 am 
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Wow. energizer bunnies here, they keep going and going.

donh: There are between 50-100 posts a day. I'd say a post is deleted once a week at most, if that. Thats 0.2% of posts. If you want to watch the forum like I do, and get an email with EVERY POST EVER MADE EVERY DAY I can set that up for you, and you can decide which should and shouldn't be deleted.

I could also modify the board to show every edit, delete, etc ever done.

Did anyone ever consider the fact that perhaps a moderator did not delete a post by chance? Maybe phpBB has a bug and it deletes posts for instance? No, couldn't be that, it has to be a moderator being a national socialist, of course.

setmefree: Besides moderating this forum, I work professionally as an engineer. I work 10+ hour days. I have explained before that editing/viewing/even visiting a forum like this at work would probably be worse than looking at pornography on the unacceptable web site list, given the subject matter. The offensive post was deleted in a very timely manner considering the amount of traffic generated a day and the limited number of active moderators, a few of which are on the virge of giving up in the first place. If you think its bad now, wait until the moderators stop moderating and then you will really be unhappy after being hammered by idiots that say things like "suboxone makes your dick fall off and it gets in your bones".. Wait, I just said it, ignore that.. I can delete it later.

Now everyone go focus on your recovery and not some stupid crap like this. I'm trying to focus on mine, which isn't going very well, but who cares, I'm a moderator.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:14 pm 
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Where in the hell is Don King when you need him?? :x

He would've strapped some boxing gloves on these two ladies, promoted the fight like one else in the world can and they'd both be millionaires by now!! Of course he would have taken his small share of the proceeds too.....I think he gets like 95% of the take? :lol:

I can see the fight now....and in this corner we have SetMeFree, as in I would like to set your head free from your body. In the other corner we have Jack goes for the jugular Crack! Then the little bald announcer dude would say, "Let's Get It On!!!"


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:04 pm 
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Okay, I'll just go out on that limb or perhaps it's a plank... Back when I was doing the paramedic thing and we'd have multiple patients - like at a bad car accident. Things could get heated quickly. As you might imagine, paramedics would sometimes argue with each other. Not too much during patient care - but certainly afterwards. Good Lord, some would bitch and the cat fights... Aye. So a friend of mine finally just said "I think we have too many ovaries in one ambulance."

Yeah, fine, okay all the women can just go ahead and kill me now. I still thought that was a brilliant comment, however.

More importantly, a statement above really caught my eye:

"Now everyone go focus on your recovery and not some stupid crap like this. I'm trying to focus on mine, which isn't going very well, but who cares, I'm a moderator."

Seriously???? If that is the case, you need to get your butt on the boards, take off your moderator hat, and put on your patient who is an addict hat. Honestly, if something is going on, I'm sure there are many here who would like to hear and try to help. What's going on?


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 Post subject: Jamez
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:43 pm 
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That's exactly what I thought then I read that. Are you okay, Jamez? What is going on with you that you do not think your recovery is going well? Please give us a chance to help if we can.....

laddertipper

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:24 pm 
Romeo....I know your post was meant to be funny and I can see some humor in it. However, the thought of "putting gloves on" and going at it with Jackcrack or anyone else, for that matter, is just not something I would ever even think of.
All I've ever asked for or wanted in this whole situation was to see the "right" thing be done. I realize that the ideals of right and wrong can vary from one person to another, but some things are just blatantly wrong and I saw some of that going on and I wanted to see it corrected or at least addressed by someone in authority.
The thing is I don't wish anything bad for Jackcrack. I just believe that she's demonstrated some pretty hateful and malicious behavior, and not only towards me, and I think that's just wrong. The fact that she's in tight with the only active moderator shouldn't mean that she is allowed to get away with statements that no one else would, and I think that is just wrong. But again, I don't wish anything bad for her and certainly don't want to "set her head free from her body."
I meant it when I said on another post that I hope she gets the help that she needs. I'd actually like to help her....that's the whole reason I've been here....to try and help others.

As to the "too many ovaries" comment....again, I can see the humor there. I worked primarily with women my whole career. However, I didn't engage in "cat fights" and I got along really well with everyone. In fact (only to demonstrate my point) I was the recipient of numerous peer awards, awards for excellence in nursing, awards for excellence in orienting new staff, and was elected to be the Nurse/Physician Liaison for multiple years in a row. My point being that I generally do NOT have problems getting along with others!

As to the reason we're all supposed to be here - RECOVERY - I am in such a great place since getting back on a therapeutic dose of Suboxone. Being in recovery is wonderful! I have gotten myself full-force back into the healthy practices that I had let "slide" a bit prior to my brief relapse and it feels great! I was telling someone else that I finally feel I've forgiven myself for the damage I did in my addiction and am finally able to feel some peace and worthiness again. I believe RECOVERY encompasses so much more than not doing illicit drugs anymore....It involves kind of a catharsis of the whole being. I used to be very focused on getting "back" to who I used to be before the drugs. I'm now coming to realize that ain't happening! What can and is happening is that I am getting back the best parts of who I used to be, but I'm getting even better. I understand. I empathize. I just think differently than I did back then. I'm proud of who I used to be before the drugs. But I'm beginning to be proud of who I am becoming now.

Jamez....I'm sorry you're struggling with your recovery. I would like to help if I can. I understand that you're busy and I understand that you can't handle all the aspects of running this forum. Perhaps that's part of the problem.....part of why things got so bad over the last little while here. There's no one really minding the store, so to speak. I wish you had more help....the forum needs more help. But you know what? None of that matters as much as you do! Or anyone else here. If your recovery is suffering, if you are suffering....reach out and let the forum do for you what you've helped it do for so many of the rest of us - HELP YOU!!!!

I'll close by saying that I am done with the drama. I doubt I'll get the resolution that I would ultimately desire to get. But that's okay.....really. I've already forgiven those who lashed out at me and beyond that, it's up to them to do as they see fit. There are a lot of good people around here and I hope we can continue sharing in each others recovery.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:42 am 
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Hey all,

Thanks for your concern, but as I stated before, I am a moderator and have to be 'healthy' :)

I am far from for various reasons. Lots of pain, dealing with pain, drugs to reduce pain, etc. You know the drill. Its nothing new to me or any of you, but it tends to distract one if your nose is running and you have the chills and the achey legs at night, etc. So, work suffers and they threaten to fire me, since I doubt opioid withdrawal really gathers much sympathy. Another summons, and 3 years of neglected dental work had me facing some serious painful procedures. I thought I met a great dentist until the day of the procedure when I gave him my medication list and of course he did a 180 on me. The lidocaine wore off in the middle because 'with what you take it can cause heart trouble and we can't have that'. Hope he never gets pancreatitis, and if he does, well then he's just a low life junky because he has to take pain medication.

So all of that, then some users on a forum start having a hissy fit about 'he said, she said'. I guess it's not on my list of things to fix immediately if you know what I mean.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:43 am 
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Although I did accomplish some amazing feats, and not a peep came out of me during those long weeks.

I even spoke in complete sentences!

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:00 am 
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Holy Crap Jamez,

You've been hit with some major crap. I honestly don't know what to say? This is going to sound pretty weak, but I honestly hope you get to feeling better. Good Lord, I just don't know what to say.

I can't imagine the stress of thinking you're going to be fired from work. The stress of dealing with the pain you're in. The stress of the summons.

I'm thinking of ya and I sure hope another member comes soon, hopefully someone with some more brains than me so they can offer you some words of wisdom.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:32 am 
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Dear Jamez,
Okay I am one of those stalkers/lurkers...... I have been clean for almost a year now (can't wait for March 19th!). Am on 8 mgs of Sub a day -- just to give you some background. I just have to say that I have a HUGE crush on you! LOL...... You rock!

Just for the record -- I am a happily married, 49 year old with 2 wonderful children..... But really, you are just so cool. I have no idea if it is because you have the picture of House on your profile or what! hahahaha....

Seriously though -- this has turned into such a silly thread so I thought I would make it even sillier! The moderators do a great job. This is a fabulous forum... Let's get back to work!

FAD....... :):):)


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 Post subject: support as a moderator
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:17 pm 
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Jamez...that has to be difficult if you aren't doing well in your recovery (your words) to be on a forum for recovery but feel you might not be able to get your needs met because of your "job" here. You didn't say that...i am empathizing what you might be going through.
That's why ReRaise's idea of having an anonymous or faceless moderator is great....that way the moderators can also ask for help instead of possibly feel they have to be on top of it all the time. I am NOT saying anyone said that....just, again, empathizing with what it might be like.
Like Doctors, Nurses, therapists, etc...there is some difficulty in asking for help because of wearing those hats. We think we should have it all together...or many do anyway. That is why I talk about sponsorship the way I do. It doesn't have to be in AA or NA it can be a spiritual mentor, a professional mentor, a trusted friend...someone who really knows us and our struggles...because we cannot recover alone. That is my belief. I, myself have not only a sponsor but also a therapist. Both know everything about me. I try to stay as accountable and healthy as possible...and its progress...not perfection as they say.
So, I hope you can get what you need for your recovery Jamez especially as you navigate these up coming procedures...dental work and migraines is how I got on opiates. If you feel like you can ask for help here I know many want to support you...that is obvious by the responses.
And, the ovary comment? Kinda funny...I, however, prefer to use the term "testofest".....LOL....(men doing what men do...) Ok, I am kidding I hope you know...men and women def have the same emotions we just express them differently...


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:18 am 
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I hate to see anybody banned or leave. There strength I get here comes from the many different people and views about addiction and Suboxone. Sure I go upon my own path, but the knowledge I gained here is invaluable. When one person leaves, no matter the cause of leaving, I feel that we as a group lose out on someone's experience.

I thank you all for all you post and talk about.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:39 pm 
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As I just said in another thread and have always said, I'm certainly no medical expert - even less when it comes to dental. However, Lidocain (a cousin of Novocain) is one medication that I used to administer to patients. What type of patients? Mostly HEART PROBLEM patients. Are you saying that your dentist didn't give you enough Novocain or that the procedure’s length outlasted the Novocain? Are you then saying that this dentist claimed that due to being on Suboxone or other opiates, he could not give you additional Novocain? That is crazy! Crazy with a capitol K. Now, perhaps he knows something that I don't, but even a quick search didn't net me any results showing Novocain or lidocain causing heart problems. Is that what this goof professes? If that is the case, you clearly do need a new dentist. I won't even comment on waiting three years. I guess, if nothing else, all of these stories about doctors and now dentists, just shows that they are all just human and come in all shapes, sizes, and levels of quality.

I just hope you'll not hold back from the rest of us and hold everything in because you are a MODERATOR. Not good, man. Holding it in doesn't work. But, I'm sure you already know that. Cut yourself some slack. There is nothing wrong with a moderator needing a little help now and then. Not at all. Plus, rather than look bad, it may actually inspire others to reach out. Hell if even a "moderator" needs help now and then... well you get the idea. I hope it gets better - and you get a new dentist.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:58 pm 
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donh,

Most dental medications they mix epinephrine with the lidocaine. He did not use the epi-mixed shot, since the medication I am on is known to cause heart issues.

Yeah, the procedure took 1.5hrs, which is as long as a lidocaine injection lasts without epinephrine.

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