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 Post subject: What is the difference ?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:55 pm 
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I would very much like to hear some responses to the question: What is the difference between quitting Buprinorphine
and other, older, drugs such as Oxys. Some reports say that Buprinorphine withdrawal is more mild, but lasts longer.

Others say Buprinorphine is much worse.

It would be helpful to hear from anyone who really knows both, and can say something about the difference.

Thanks very much,

S


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:54 am 
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Hey scruffy,

You're sure to get several different answers on the Buprenorphine side because people jump from such varying doses.

On the OxyContin or Hydrocodone side, I would think the answers would be more similar. My experience coming off Hydro's is that it's usually about day 4 when things peak, then they improve from there, but I couldn't handle the crushing depression that came with getting off a full agonist like Hydro's. I precipitated wd off of OxyContin once and after day 2, I ended up in the hospital. Vomitting uncontrollably and diarhea to the point that I dehydrated myself. Muscle cramps set in soon afterwards, severe upper GI irritation from all the vomitting....blah, blah, blah.

So, my experience with full agonists (hydro's or oxy's) is that they both pretty much reach a 10 on the pain scale, they get ya there pretty quickly, but after about 4 days, it gets "tolerable".

I jumped off a high dose of Suboxone, somewhere around 5mg to 8mg. The Buprenorphine wd sets in a lot slower, it does not peak any near a 10 on the pain scale, if I had to guess, I'd say maybe it's a 6. It's not a 10, but a 6 ain't no fun either. Buprenorphine wd lasted a long time for me, the acute stage was about 10 days followed by another 20 days of semi-acute, then into PAWS.

To be fair, I can't compare wd after 30 days because that's as far as I EVER made it without a full agonist. So, that right there says a lot about Suboxone wd, I'm currently 1 year and 9 months off of Suboxone, I really don't know if I would have ever been able to kick a full agonist long term?

I hope you get a bunch more responses, I'd be curious to see how the two sets of wd stack up for other folks.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:49 am 
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My experience with opioid withdrawal is isolated to heroin / methadone & buprenorphine.

They are hard to compare in some ways, but if some sadistic wizard locked me up, waved his wand and gave me three choices for a high dose jump-off detox - heroin, methadone or buprenorphine - I'd choose heroin.

I don't want this to put people off buprenorphine, because for me the main benefits aren't as a detox med, but as an aid for long term recovery and relapse prevention. Detox means very little in the big picture my life. The other thing is, outta heroin / methadone and buprenorphine, bupe is the most manageable / achievable one to taper off IMO. So, tapering properly, a person can manage their symptoms with subox fairly well.

The reason I'd choose heroin is only because of its duration. Day 3-4 for heroin withdrawal is usually hump day, the time when things start to improve, and by day 6-7 I feel like I'm out the other side. Symptoms are straight forward and predictable.

When I'd jumped off 6+ mg of buprenorphine, I could only say I was better by day 14? Esp with my first bupe detox, word among doctors was 'bupe detox isn't as bad as the agonists', so I felt it would be okay jumping off a high dose. I remember getting panic'd at around day 8 because things hadn't gotten better, and I was concerned that it was just gunna be like that forever. The detox doctors didn't know squat about buprenorphine at the time. it was like "Oh you're coming off Subutex - no worries. Here's some ibuprofen there's the tv, we'll see you in a week" I was in there 3 weeks. hehe.

But the 'big mumma' of opioid detoxes IMO is methadone, which I jumped at maybe 90mg? Acute withdrawal for that was 4 weeks, with recurring "waves" up to 6 months after? I'd choose methadone last for sure. But despite it's lingering badness, it was a fairly straight-forward detox with predictable agonist symptoms.

The other thing about bupe detox is I've found it's more unpredictable. Maybe it's the whole partial agonist / antagonist thing. Some people manage to come off with very few symptoms. Other people (incl myself) aren't so lucky. For me, anxiety / depression is more overwhelming in bupe detox than the others. There was this real anxious cold-panic feeling about it I didn't like very much... whereas agonist withdrawal was more pain, tears and regrets... :lol: Sounds weird, but that's the only way I can describe it.

Despite knowing these things, and after trying a lot of paths / ways to achieve recovery, I still chose buprenorphine. Mainly because I realised I wasn't yet ready for abstinence, but the recovery I'd done made methadone overkill. It was the "middle way" I needed. And I'd encourage anyone to put take any detox-fears out of the equation when considering recovery choices. With a proper taper, detox shouldn't be a big feature at all in your journey.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:12 pm 
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The biggest difference for me was that with full-agonist opiates, I couldn't quit. I couldn't taper successfully, and when I quit cold-turkey I'd make it for a few days or a week and then I'd be right back on the ride.

I was able to taper Suboxone slowly and quit when I was ready, and I stayed quit. It's been 2 and a half years now which is basically a freaking miracle.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Ive had to deal with fentora,oxy,heroin,hydros,morphine and suboxone!

And suboxone was by far the worst withdrawal i have ever had to deal with. The other drugs i mentioned up above were no cake walk but were tolerable and i could hold down sum food and not be glued to a toilet seat for a week. But subs i ended up in the physic ward bc i didnt sleep for five days straight and i was having hallucinations do to having micro naps. Meaning my body/brain was so drained that i ould literally have moments were i had no brain activity what so ever and when this happen i would se things that werent there. I also developed a overactive bladder that i still have to date. But it got so bad that i ended up having to have a cystoscopy. I missed more than three weks of school. And even when i started suboxone again it took a month and a half for me to feel better. But i should state my sub wd went from 24mg to 0.

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