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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:48 am 
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I'm a newbie, just got off 2 years of oxys for sub. The transition went really well, started with 4 around 2pm and took another 4 this evening when i started feeling the creepy crawlies coming back. AFter the fact, it feels like waaayyy too much, and I wish I had either waited or taken less of the 2nd dose.

Anyway, I just had several days of w/d, & I don't want to get back there. How much (if any) should I take in the morning?

I'm hoping to do a relatively short taper with these...any suggestions? I'd like to be off in 3 weeks. Would that be enough to do it comfortably?

Thanks for any comments. I'm really glad to have found this.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:05 am 
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[font=Comic Sans MS]Hello Jolene and welcome to the forum!!!
Congratulations on your decision to begin recovery! You've definitely come
to the right place. You'll find lots of supportive members here!

That happens to a lot of people. They take that second dose, and then it seems like too
much after the fact. If you are trying to do a relatively short taper and just use the
suboxone for detox, I would get your dose as low as you possibly need. Just enough to get
you out of...and keep you out of withdrawal. Suboxone is a VERY strong med.

If this were me, I wouldn't even take my dose today. Wait until the morning, and go with
4mg again. If you feel like you need another dose later in the day, then try 2mg or 1mg.
But you should really try to just dose once per day. It is hard to get out of the habit of
dosing multiple times a day, especially in the beginning. But with suboxone, you only NEED to
dose once daily. Unless of course you are dosing for pain, or whatever.

For your purposes, like I said, try to get that dose as low as keeps you comfortable. 4mg should do it.
Other members will come along, with their advice too. Good luck to you, and again....
WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!!![/font]

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:46 am 
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Wow! Answers in minutes...I am sold! Thank you, Goinstrong. I think I'll do just that: wait out this night--no way am I going to be sleeping--and then try the 4 in the morning. Maybe that can hold me all day, especially with a little built up in my system. I do get to talk to my doc in the morning, and for the next few days/weeks, but he's never done this himself, so his "expertise" can only get him so far.

I'm grateful for the encouragement...this is the beginning of a long road. I'm glad to be taking the first steps, but in serious need of support, too. So thanks.

Any idea when I'll sleep again? That would be nice. Ha.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:53 am 
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[font=Comic Sans MS]Ya thats exactly what i was thinking. That should hold you til the next day. You should be fine
not dosing for the day.
AS far as the sleep thing goes.... I didn't get very good sleep the first 2 weeks.....maybe 10 days.
That doesn't meant that it will take that long for you, though. My dose is also higher than yours.
Everyone reacts differently to their dose, and adjust on a different time scale. Just keep posting
how you are feeling, and we will do our best to give you our experience, and maybe that'll help.
I know that I took melatonin, and it did wonders for my sleep!!! I did take 3 pills instead of 1.
My doc told me to, and it worked, without having that 'DRUGGED' feeling in the morning.

I hope that you are able to get some sleep soon. I did notice that if I took my dose too close to bed time,
that it kinda kept me up a little bit later. Gives me this boost of energy or something. LOL!
Let us know how you make out in the sleep department...

As far as support goes...you are definitely in the right place. I love this forum as far as the support
system goes. No better place yet that I have found. There is a good mix of members too. Some are
on sub long term maintenance, some used it for a short detox, some have tapered off after years, etc etc.
So you should be able to get a good bit of educated, or at least experienced feed back. Hope you feel
like yourself again soon. Keep your head up, and we are here if ya need anything....even if its just to
vent!!!!! Take Care~[/font]

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:55 am 
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Hey Jolene ... you are asking that question at the right time ... I agree with goingstrong (who knows) ... less is more right now.
Cut those 8 mg strips up into eight or 16 pieces and start a log ... take as little as possible to feel OK ... wait AS LONG as you can then do another little one. REPEAT. Do this until you get down to once a day little dose that keeps you feeling right ALL day. This should take 5 days or so.
This final tapered mg will become your maintenance dose and should be under or at 1 mg. You can now stay on this amount for a month or years and jump off when you feel like your life is back on track. This is a spooky powerful but affective replacement therapy drug.
Family support ... counseling ... 12 step are all vital in getting life back on track.
Let us know how you are doing and keep asking questions.
GOD BLESS


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:31 am 
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Jolene wrote:
Wow! Answers in minutes...I am sold! Thank you, Goinstrong. I think I'll do just that: wait out this night--no way am I going to be sleeping--and then try the 4 in the morning. Maybe that can hold me all day, especially with a little built up in my system. I do get to talk to my doc in the morning, and for the next few days/weeks, but he's never done this himself, so his "expertise" can only get him so far.

I'm grateful for the encouragement...this is the beginning of a long road. I'm glad to be taking the first steps, but in serious need of support, too. So thanks.

Any idea when I'll sleep again? That would be nice. Ha.


Hi Jolene,

Congratulations on taking the road to recovery, it's difficult but so worth it!!

This is my second go around on Suboxone. The first time I did what you are planning, using it solely to detox then quit. I was on 8mg a day, once a day, for 30 days then quit with no problems, no withdrawal. Keep your dose as low as possible only taking enough to ward off w/d's, dose once a day and you should have no problems.

Sleep should return pretty quickly, usually no more than a day or two unless you are like me and have chronic insomnia. :(

I'm not trying to scare you or make you loose faith with this next part so please don't take it that way. You didn't mention in your post any type of addiction treatment you are undertaking along with Suboxone therapy. The first time I was on Suboxone to kick a Percocet addiction, I made a huge mistake by not seeking out any other treatment. Three years later I started down the road to a very severe Opana addiction. This time I realized getting "clean" means more than just taking a medication and I'm in addiction treatment along with Suboxone. Statistically us addicts are way more likely to relapse after kicking our drug habit if we do not receive addiction treatment. Hopefully your doctor, even though he's new at prescribing Suboxone, has talked to you about other resources available.

Suboxone is a wonderful medication to help us kick our drug habit whether its used short term or for long term maintenance. It's my opinion only, so please don't think I'm trying to slam your recovery plans, that Suboxone works best when used in the long term. It allows us addicts to do the work necessary to figure out, if we ever do learn, the reasons why we became addicts, without the cravings and desire to use getting in the way. It also allows us to get sober time under our belts, to learn to live our lives without using. At the end of the month, if you have any doubts about staying sober without Suboxone, there is nothing wrong with staying on it longer while you are working on your sobriety.

Congratulations again and I wish you the best of luck in your recovery!!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:24 pm 
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Wow. I'm pretty overwhelmed with the support. Thank you all. I feel like I'm definitely on the right track. I am so grateful.

I only slept from about 5-7, and that sleep was very light. I felt like most of me was almost paralyzed, but my eyes didn't want to shut. My daughter was also up vomiting around 3, so I was on "parental alert" listening for her. I'm hoping that tonight is a little better. I have had ongoing insomnia, so I don't have very high expectations for sleep--maybe 5-6 hours?

As for my "history", I have rheumatoid arthritis (yes, I'm only 36), and I got it when I was pregnant with my daughter 7 years ago. I started the oxy for pain management 2 years ago, which got out of control about 6 months ago. The walls crumbled last Tuesday when I got "caught" for double dipping my prescriptions. Then I faced the things I have been trying to avoid all along--w/d and the lies I've been telling everyone & myself. I have individual counseling and marriage counseling lined up for this week, as well as an appt with the doc who prescribed me the suboxone. I guess I'm still gathering info...about the drug, and about myself. I'm open to anything that will heal my life, though I'm definitely more interested in getting off this stuff--especially after last night! ;)

My husband is very angry, and rightly so. I didn't tell him about my use--I knew he was opposed to the meds but frustrated about my inability to participate in our life the way I used to be able to, before the RA. That was my first mistake, obviously...but it's too late now, and I'm dealing with a relationship without any trust. I have great friends to lean on, and a supportive family, so I think I'm pretty lucky. I'd like to think I've got a good shot at this.

Thanks for anything and all of it. I'm grateful.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:47 pm 
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Awesome - it sounds like you've got a good handle on where to start in recovery.

I also began my addiction because of chronic pain and know how difficult it can be to live with it. I don't know if your doctor told you, or if he even knows, but Suboxone is also used to treat chronic pain. You may find that your pain levels decrease while you are on it. Part of my decision to use Suboxone long term was it's ability to help control pain. While it does not give me complete reduction or even 50%, it does reduce my pain levels enough I can function through the day.

It's great you're starting marriage counseling. Addiction can do a lot of damage to those we love the most. My marriage didn't survive my addiction so I'm sooooooooo happy to hear your husband, although angry, is standing by you and is willing to work things through.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:31 pm 
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Hey, you helpful people...just to clarify a few things:

--My doc is not new to prescribing. I just meant that he's never been through detox before, so his expertise is limited by that.
--@ Goinstrong: Because of my RA, I can't take melatonin. I have taken lots of other sleep aides... Ugh.

It's mid-morning, and I'm just getting rid of the jittery feeling from TOO MUCH. I'm going to put a call in to the doc and ask him, too, but I'd be grateful for opinions about what to do. I like the idea of splitting the strip into tiny pieces and doing it a little at a time, but it makes me nervous to slip back into the w/d's. I feel fine, but I don't want to ( & can't) feel bad. I'm on kid-patrol today, which is a breath of fresh air after the last few days of misery.

I am astonished by the fact that I can feel SO much better in so little time. I feel like I'm "back" for my family, and that I can do the things I need to do for everyday life and for my future well-being. (sigh of relief) I don't know if I'm kidding myself or what, but it feels like I can really do this. I've wanted it for so long, and just been trapped.

Any other moms out there? I'd love to have a conversation about parenting and recovery. Hello, stress!!! :) And many wonderful things, too, but a definite trigger. Again, and I know I keep saying it (BUT I MEAN IT!), thank you all. It's amazingly helpful to hear everyone's opinions, experiences, (of course) encouragement.

...and my husband just kissed me for the first time since my life imploded 5 days ago. I know it's not the final word, but it's a beginning. Who knows what tonight will bring!

Cheers all.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:23 pm 
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Hi Jolene,

I am also 36 years old and I quit opiates on July 29th of this year. I did Suboxone for 3 weeks and now I'm free and clean of both opiates and Subs.

My advice: do this as short term as you possibly can. Listen, I did 80-160mg of any kind of 'codone' I could find for 8 years. Then, I decided enough was enough similarly to you in that I double dipped, I ran out of money, and hit rock bottom, so to speak.

The first week, I did 8mg/day for 4 days, then 4 mg/day for 3 days, 4mg/day every other day for a week, then 2mg/day for 5 days. Then I stopped.

It worked. The first week or two after I stopped Subs was rough, but I got through it. You have to expect to pay the price even a little bit for abusing your body with drugs. But, it will be SOOOOO much worse if you stay on Subs for more than a month or two.

These doctors, while extremely helpful, obviously, want you to stay on it for reasons both good and bad. While it does cure you of opiate addiction, in many ways you end up replacing opes with Subs and then you get hooked on them.

Take it from the people on this forum who have actually lived through it like I have. You have the chance right now to do this short term like I did. But, it takes discipline, it takes WANTING to be done with it all, and it takes knowing that in a few months or so, you will feel like a completely brand new person like I do right now.

Feel free to message me, or take a look at other posts I've had through my journey in the 'Stopping Suboxone' section. I can help you get this nipped in the bud quickly.

Good luck!

Charlie

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:31 pm 
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I've said a post that's really similar to this recently.

Other members have emphasised that it's best to approach your dosing with moderation. If you notice yourself feeling any kinda buzz from Suboxone, you're likely taking too much. General consensus is that the lower your dose is the easier it will be to reduce off when the time comes. BUT there's one really really important catch. If your dose is so low that you're finding your cravings difficult to manage, and find yourself thinking of using, then your dose is too low and you may actually do more harm to your recovery.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:41 pm 
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Thanks! Charlie, I'll look for your older posts...I don't mean to ask questions that have already been answered. Thanks for your patience, everyone!

Thanks, too, TeeJay, for your words of warning. I'm not having any cravings whatsoever, and I truly want this to be over. I've wanted it for a long time, but couldn't do it b/c of the w'ds. If sub can help me deal with that piece, the other feels like it's doable, and within my control.

The 2mg from this morning started wearing off, so I'm going to take another 2mg this evening, and will try 4 in the morning as a single, all-day dose. I spoke to my md about all of this as well, who agreed to do a phone appt instead of having to drive for hours to see him this week. (whew!)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:16 am 
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sleep again.....


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:50 am 
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First of all, Congrats on your recovery!! Im a single mother, I have 5 beautiful little girls, my oldest is 8 and my youngest is 8 months so believe me I know what its like to be on kid duty :) this is my 3rd time on subs, im actually taking subutex bc of side effects I got from regular suboxone. The last 2 times I did short detoxes but ended up eventually relapsing both times, this time ive been on it since April 2011 and dont plan on coming off till I know im ready. I just wanted to point out something that was said in a previous post...
"While it does cure you of opiate addiction, in many ways you end up replacing opes with Subs and then you get hooked on them.".... -Suboxone treatment is in NO WAY trading one drug for another, there is a HUGE difference between physical dependence and addiction.. Another thing I wanted to point out was
"It will be SOOOOO much worse if you stay on Subs for more than a month or two."...- that statement is COMPLETELY FALSE.. regardless of how long you stay on them, whether it be a week or years you are going to have withdrawal coming off them, how much withdrawal depends on how you taper and how low of a dose you are on before jumping.. the people that take time tapering and get as low as they can before jumping have very minimal withdrawal.. I just registered for this forum although ive been reading on it for over 2 years, there is also another great forum which ive been using for quite a while.. ADDICTIONSURVIVORS DOT ORG ....Both sites, this one and that one are great for info and great for support, you definitely need all the support you can get.
Im not sure about your sleep issues bc I never had any starting sub, I take 12mg a day.. I dose 3x a day, subutex comes in pill form so I take a half in the morning, half in the afternoon and a half at night. I know everyone talks about dosing once per day but this treatment isnt the same for everyone, splitting my doses up is what works best for me and I have tried single dosing.. The thing about these forums is they are wonderful for support, advice and information but everyones experience is individual, just bc something worked for one person does not mean it will work the same for you, thats a big thing you have to remember... we can all give you advice on how we do things and what works for us but you gotta find what works for you. I personally dont agree with using sub to detox, mainly bc theres so many people on the forums who are on their 2nd, 3rd and 4th go around with them which means they detoxed and relapsed and ended up doing it all over again. When I was using I almost lost everything so this time on sub I had to stay on bc if I relapse again im gonna lose everything and I cannot risk that. I will get off sub when I feel im ready, when I know theres no chance of relapsing and I have all the tools I need to stay clean without sub.. Some type of therapy is definitely a MUST, you need to figure out how you got to this point in the first place and how your gonna make sure you never end up here again and my advice would be to stay on the sub at least till then, your situation kinda sounds like mine in regards relapsing and losing everything.. The very best advice anyone can give you though is to educate yourself as much as possible about this medication and do whats right for you in regards to it, not everyone else.. Congrats again on your recovery and I wish you the best of luck :)


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