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 Post subject: What should I do ?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:42 pm 
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I'm in day 13 post jump (1mg) and am proufoundly depressed, close to the point of requiring hospitalization.
I depserately wanted to be opiate free, I was a pain patient and am 90 free of oxy.

I've unfortunately had a little slip with kratom 9days ago-highly tempting to me again, especially since I'm having super opiate cravings, even this far in. I'm severely bipolar and take benzos, Zyprexa, Seroquel, Effexor- so I don't expect a "normal" PAWS
experience- especially b/c I'm home-bound- it's like torture.

My Subdoc appt is tomorrow. He's not gonna be a happy camper with me, but if he'll treat me, going back on is an option.
I wonder if he'd give it to me at 13 days and if he'd understand Kratom as being an opiate. I'll tell him I'm in day #3 if that's what's neccessary.

Suboxone is extremely epensive w/o insureance- I'm not excited about this but don't see another choice
I don't know also if generic subutext is real expesive ? pill . What do I need to do here?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:54 pm 
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I'm sorry to hear you're feeling so bad. You are the only one who can decide to go back on sub or not. I will say that I've heard of other people going back on because of PAWS, so you're not alone. Yes, it can be very expensive when insurance isn't in the picture. Are you totally without insurance? Maybe you should ask your doctor about the patient assistance program. Each doctor is now allowed 3 patients on the program. (Info is posted under the "Links" section".) If you were approved for the program it pays for your medication for one year. Hang in there and keep us posted.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:44 pm 
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Hey runner I was just going to let you know that I recently found out that Sam's Club sells the generic Subutex where I live in central Indiana for only $3 per tab which really isn't bad CVS carries the generic Subutext for pretty much exactly $5 a tablet so it's definately worth it to look around and call several pharmacies around you. Also hatmaker had a great suggestion with the patient assistace programs.

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 Post subject: It's Over
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:32 pm 
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Hi all,

My decision of returning to Suboxone therapy was a difficult one. Certainly not one that I would have chosen at 16 days off sub.
This was my sencond unsuccesful jump getting down to .1 this last time. I was induced this afternoon.

In short, it was psychiatric withdrawal features that got me. And I'd say for sure potential for relapse on legal mail-order herbal opiates, none of which my doc had heard of.

Today was a brutul day, going through the whole process of testing, filling the RX, and finally being induced. Having spent the last 4 days in near-inpatient condition, this was a great relief. Initially the doc refused to Rx me anything.

While I hoped to walk away from opiates the way I have with alcohol and many other drugs, it's not the same. Not by a long shot.
Many sites poo-poo Dr. J's sentiments on maintenance therapy, but the fact of the matter is that it IS a powerful tool for keeping the illness at bay.

I am a pain patient, but for maintenance purposes I'd like to be at about 2mg. With time and trust I hope that I might be switched to generic subutex. Doc may not offer due to trust issues, but maybe after some time and more clean drug screens.

I looked at the links page but was unable to find the Assistance program, couldn't find it on the suboxone site either...
could someone please tell me where to find it (whereby the doc can have 3 pts on assistance)

Thx,
Runner


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:43 pm 
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Hi Runner,

Here's that post about the assistance program: http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2283.

It almost sounds like you're a bit unhappy to have gone back on sub. I'm just sorry that things didn't turn out the way you had hoped. But you're right, sub can be so valuable at treating this fatal illness we have. Hang in there...and good luck getting accepted into the program.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:24 am 
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Runner,

Based on the limited information you provided, I think you made the right decision. It sounds like you weren't on sub very long anyways. I commend both of your efforts to wean down to a low level and both attempts to get off of it. I also understand the PAWS experience which is horrible. Don't get too discouraged with this. I have heard several people mention that with suboxone you just really need to taper VERY slowly and to a VERY low level. Many people are trying a liquid method when the pills get too small to cut accurately. And unfotunately, like you have learned, it seems the psych meds don't do a whole heck of a lot for PAWS. Take care and don't give up.

Cherie

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:01 am 
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Don't beat yourself up about getting back on the sub. And may I also suggest that you steer clear of those sites that "poo poo on Dr. J's maintenance theories?"

Look, everyone's entitled to their opinions.

My sister in law is dead. She overdosed on Oxycontin. Her 17 year old daughter found her on the kitchen floor, with her eyes rolled up into her head and a little bit of white foam coming out her mouth. She was ice cold and had been dead for many hours.....long enough that her bladder had also emptied itself onto the floor and rigor mortis had set in.

I provided that level of detail to illustrate a point: You can't change dead. Dead is dead. And if you keep abusing drugs, you know what's pretty likely to happen, right? If you're like most addicts, you'll end up in jails, institutions or.....dead.

So, while some people will castigate you for taking suboxone to keep your disease at bay, and some will even say you are trading one addiction for another, why should we care what OTHER PEOPLE think about how WE, as individuals, decide to treat our *potentially fatal* illness?

Personally, I don't really give a crap what anyone thinks about how I have chosen to treat my problem.

I have my life back, I'm stable, and healthy. If I have to take a pill each day for that to happen, so be it.


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 Post subject: Thanks
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:38 am 
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Thanks guys,

Were it not for your advice and careful approach to my doc, I'd have probably checked inpatient last PM, leaving my Mother hanging. I had reached the point where only an IM injection(s) could help...I was Maxed at emergency only levels.
I know these limits very well, it's not a courage thing, it's about not ending up psychotic on my front lawn in handcuffs.
Or with NMS ot dystonia from all the antipsychotics for anxiety.

This morning I slept until 7:00 like a rock. No dreams or nightmares. And I can literally feel the spring coming unsprung,
the crisis being averted. I did the math on my Medicare D insurance, I get the first $2,700 covered annually. I think that's enough
to get me pretty much though a year...should be less than 1k. Using $8/pill.

My extensive readings have shown evidence of exactly what I experienced. A much longer, milder acute phase, but with much worse psychological/ psychiatric features. I think I already mentioned that I require zero benzos and 1/2 normal sleep med dose while on the sub- and the cravings are GONE.

For mental reason mostly, I'm gonna stick with the BID dosing the doc provided me for the moment. I have a 1 month follow-up.
I don't want to build tolerance right out of the gate, so I took a small dose this morning. I'll go 8,6,4, then hopefully 2 pretty quick.
I've not heard of many that can't maintain on 2mg?

I'm not a big God person, but what happened yesterday really was a miracle. That Dr. was VERY pissed at me for not going inpatient
and said right from the start "I'm not going to give you any medicine of any kind". "You'll have to find another doctor", etc- he was dead set. I made my ammend, said my piece and Apparently I said something right.....TG, TG, TG.

It feels good to be alive today, and I don't regret one bit what I'm doing. As far as the other sites go, I'm in favor of being supportive towards anyone who wants to go on, get on, or get off sub for whatever needs they have. In keeping with the rules of this site, I don't advocate or condemn the stuff, it helps me a great deal, but IMHO VERY difficult to get off of.

My father is 27 yrs in AA and keeps telling me he knows two people who got off sub....ie: "why can't you?". Opiate addiction is a whole different world than any other addiction in some ways- It's not a direction I want to go.

I'm sorry to hear about your loss...my great Aunt died from an OC overdose...she was in her 80's and they put her through hell with trying to get her off of everything shortly before she died. I'm sure that Dr. J has seen many patients that DIDN'T make it. I had myself in a lot of danger with respiratory depression and OD on Insufflated Opana, very serious stuff, all of it.

Thanks again.


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