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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:48 pm 
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My relationship with sub started off great. But for the past four months slowly the risks I feel have been outweighing the benefits. Firstly, even while I was taking tons of vicodin I was NEVER EVVVEEER this constipated in my life. I usually go freaking three days with no BM. And then of course it hurts like hell, and I swear it's like the damn BM's are just getting bigger and BIGGER! :o I'd be laughing too if it weren't for the sharp pain and now BLOOD. I'm probably going to die of ass cancer or something is the only thing I'm thinking. Not to mention my appetite is zilch. I take absolutely NO joy in eating anything. I know the constipation is because I'm not eating enough not nearly, and when I do it feels very much like a chore. I've been at 16mg of the crap since I started. I feel like I want to taper OFF of it. I have a tooth that needs pulling and I'm afraid to get it pulled cause I know even if they give me something I will be in pain cause of the stupid sub. At first, this seemed like a great idea, go off vics and not deal with detoxing,well a week of that is nothing compared to this. I hope I can find the strength to get off this stuff, because it's causing more problems than not. Sorry if this offends but for me its a big issue everything is above.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:11 am 
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The constipation can be dealt with. I won't go through all the ways because there are many threads here that address it. As for the lack of appetite, some people complain of gaining weight on sub. I only wish I had no appetite - lol. But I know that doesn't matter to you. You might want to try lowering your dose before deciding to go off it entirely. What you describe is, I think, a small price to pay to avoid relapse and possible death.

And not to be a bitch, but I really am not comfortable with you saying suboxone is crap and stupid. It could very well turn people off to suboxone when in fact it could save their life. Please consider the people who haven't yet tried suboxone and will be reading these posts.

I absolutely DO hear your frustration. But I think you are in the midst of black and white thinking. Stay on sub or go off sub. Please consider trying to reduce your dose before making any hasty decisions. Lowering that dose could very well stop those side effects you are describing.

Have you learned to deal with the triggers and cravings that will inevitably happen when you stop suboxone? I do believe that tapering off sub is the most successful when people get off it for the right reasons - that they are fully ready and have made major changes in their life. Again, please think about this. If you end up tapering off, please know that we will support you in your effort.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:03 am 
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Hopeful....I hear you. I am not having the same symptoms as you and I've only been on it 3 months....but I am starting to notice some side effects...but I do think if i lower my dose this particular side effect will get better.

I've never been constipated on any opiate ever...and a few times I've experienced it on Sub...it isn't ongoing for me but I can see what people are talking about.

I don't like food, either on Sub. I love to cook and eat good food and I just don't care...I eat something so my stomach doesn't hurt...but I'm also getting less energetic and that scares me because I had that side effect on methadone and I am paranoid that I'll get back to being apathetic like I was on methadone. So, because of these things and because of financial concerns with my dr. ok I'm lowering my dose and am considering....considering a taper off. I am afraid because I recently had a few day relapse on a benzo and wasn't dealing with my feelings but money is a huge issue for me. If I can get to a dose, even 4mg, and be ok I think i can afford that...I just can't afford 16mg/day. But, these are thoughts...the only decision I have made is to go to 12mg and make sure I can handle that. My recovery has to be stable. I've said it before, I can't afford to fuck this up any more.

I don't think you are hurting people by saying you feel sub is crap. It is crap for you right now. it's your opinion, you're not saying its crap for everyone. We are here to express our opinions, our experiences. I think methadone is crap for me, but it works well for some. I think the amount of money I pay out of pocket for Sub is bullshit and yes I know, I paid a lot for my addiction...but why we have to pay so much to get better and I'm not just talking about Sub, I'm talking about many meds...is crap...but a different discussion.

I appreciate hearing your experiences and glad you can write about them here. It's how we find ways to deal...we need to express ourselves and our concerns. Hopefuly you will find some ways to get around these side effects that bother you...maybe lowering your dose would be a good choice? I know that I vacillate between long and short term sub use. I am tired at times of feeling like I am handcuffed to a medication...afraid something might happen and we can't get it...afraid of the idea of w/d when I decide to get off of it....the fear of how do i go off of it and feel normal again...will I ever be able to? Will I have to go to treatment to get off of it? etc etc etc. Can I work in my field while on it? will I lose my career because I'm on it? I just get overwhelmed sometimes. People on insulin don't lose their careers...and the job that I want to take that was offered...well I might not be able to do it because the state says I can't be on Sub. So, do I work on honest program and not take a job that will allow me to have a really good income and be a contributing member of society? Or do I lie and hope I don't get caught. LIke I did when on methadone...I was doing a great job but got fired over it. Or do i go off Sub when I might not quite be ready to? Yes, it might be black and white thinking at some level...but we need to be able to discuss how we feel here. Advice and suggestions don't get heard when mixed with criticism.

So, Hopeful...I look forward to hearing what you decide to do and how it affects the side effects you have described...


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:17 am 
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If I had a lot of time on my hands with absolutely nothing to do, I'd go through and compile a list of symptoms, feelings, and things that people have claimed to be side effects of Bup. Trust me, that would be some list. I have seen pretty much everything and anything with Bup/Sub as the reason. Without a doubt, constipation would be on the list. I would guess that this is something a majority of Bup patients suffer. But then, I have seen people complain of craving sweets, over-eating, gaining weight - all supposedly due to Sub. In your case, it is the exact opposite. Can it be that Bup causes both? Or either?

I hear your frustration and don't at all discount it. I just question whether or not it is due to or because of Bup. I strongly agree with a few others in that the place to start would be with your dose. I am very willing to bet you could reduce to 12mg and likely down to 8mg without reducing the direct effect of reducing cravings and keeping away withdrawals. While the effect will be the same, you may have less side effects. I really should strongly suggest giving this a try before stopping. What do you have to lose? The absolute worst that could happen is some withdrawal symptoms and they are not even likely. However, if for some reason they do happen, just take an extra 4mg and within 90 minutes you will be fine. That's the WORST that can happen. On the up side, you may end up with less side effects.

I have read comments from many others who have done this with very good success - I am one of them. My largest side effect was being tired. While I still sleep more than I used to, it is far less on 8mg than it was on 16mg. Just give it some thought.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:31 am 
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im not saying your doing this at all because constipation is a legit side effect as is decreased appetite. i take magnesium for constipation and i have to take it everyday or i wont crap for 5 or more days. anyways in response to the post above, i think alot of people get off opiates adn get on subs and they blame alot of side effects on sub that are related to quittign opiates. i.e., cravings- thats really common when you get off suboxone. I know inr detox everyone was craving sweets and i still do but i dont blame it on the sub. i just think that people need to realize what is a side effect of sub and what is a side effect of addiction. as i said this is not directed at the original poster, as im positive the side effecs listed are most likely ssub related


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:30 pm 
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chinagirl wrote:
Hopeful....I hear you. I am not having the same symptoms as you and I've only been on it 3 months....but I am starting to notice some side effects...but I do think if i lower my dose this particular side effect will get better.

I've never been constipated on any opiate ever...and a few times I've experienced it on Sub...it isn't ongoing for me but I can see what people are talking about.

I don't like food, either on Sub. I love to cook and eat good food and I just don't care...I eat something so my stomach doesn't hurt...but I'm also getting less energetic and that scares me because I had that side effect on methadone and I am paranoid that I'll get back to being apathetic like I was on methadone. So, because of these things and because of financial concerns with my dr. ok I'm lowering my dose and am considering....considering a taper off. I am afraid because I recently had a few day relapse on a benzo and wasn't dealing with my feelings but money is a huge issue for me. If I can get to a dose, even 4mg, and be ok I think i can afford that...I just can't afford 16mg/day. But, these are thoughts...the only decision I have made is to go to 12mg and make sure I can handle that. My recovery has to be stable. I've said it before, I can't afford to fuck this up any more.

I don't think you are hurting people by saying you feel sub is crap. It is crap for you right now. it's your opinion, you're not saying its crap for everyone. We are here to express our opinions, our experiences. I think methadone is crap for me, but it works well for some. I think the amount of money I pay out of pocket for Sub is bullshit and yes I know, I paid a lot for my addiction...but why we have to pay so much to get better and I'm not just talking about Sub, I'm talking about many meds...is crap...but a different discussion.

I appreciate hearing your experiences and glad you can write about them here. It's how we find ways to deal...we need to express ourselves and our concerns. Hopefuly you will find some ways to get around these side effects that bother you...maybe lowering your dose would be a good choice? I know that I vacillate between long and short term sub use. I am tired at times of feeling like I am handcuffed to a medication...afraid something might happen and we can't get it...afraid of the idea of w/d when I decide to get off of it....the fear of how do i go off of it and feel normal again...will I ever be able to? Will I have to go to treatment to get off of it? etc etc etc. Can I work in my field while on it? will I lose my career because I'm on it? I just get overwhelmed sometimes. People on insulin don't lose their careers...and the job that I want to take that was offered...well I might not be able to do it because the state says I can't be on Sub. So, do I work on honest program and not take a job that will allow me to have a really good income and be a contributing member of society? Or do I lie and hope I don't get caught. LIke I did when on methadone...I was doing a great job but got fired over it. Or do i go off Sub when I might not quite be ready to? Yes, it might be black and white thinking at some level...but we need to be able to discuss how we feel here. Advice and suggestions don't get heard when mixed with criticism.

So, Hopeful...I look forward to hearing what you decide to do and how it affects the side effects you have described...


I think that's a great response to the OP. We should be able to get on here and openly share when we are frustrated with Suboxone without being afraid of offending or scaring people. It's an individual experience! People post about their wonderful experiences, and that's okay; they should be able to post when their experience isn't perfect as well. It's a more honest reflection of reality anyway. Life is full of hard choices. We have to choose what is best out of a bunch of imperfect options. As chinagirl so clearly illustrated, being on Suboxone can be a mixture of benefits, symptoms, pros, and cons, and people thinking about getting onto Suboxone should have access to all those experiences.

I've felt the same lack of interest in food as well (but no constipation, thank God). I think it was balanced out by my decreased interest in exercising, lol. I've tapered down and I have to say that I started getting a lot more interested in food at some point. Now, I'm trying not to have the opposite problem, lol! I don't think you have to taper all the way off Sub to get a break from many symptoms. At least, that's MY experience. Personally, I started to see a big change somewhere around 6 mg and 4 mg. Maybe trying a lower dose is a good option for anyone who has developed troublesome symptoms but doesn't think it's best to taper off altogether. And of course, a person may taper down only to discover that they still have the original problem and it wasn't a result of Suboxone at all. Everyone's different.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:15 pm 
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Laddertripper...that's great to know about your experience with lowering your dose. I think that is a better plan for me....to start now at 12 and work towards 6..gives me something to work on without feeling overwhelmed that I have to quit altogether. My new doctor (since my move I had to get new doc) was so wanting me to get on the assistance program but he has three pts on it right now. damn! don't want to find a new doc and then pay another 300$ for initial visit just to get on the program, altho that probably isn't a bad idea as in the bigger picture that would pay for itself in a month. Hmmm...


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:22 pm 
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Hello, Hopeful. I have been on sub for a month this week, and you may consider me to be in the "honeymoon phase"
but I have an advantage in that my days of abusing vicodin are not so far behind me, and I can remind you of what
a hassle it was using opiates. Even if you must ask your doctor for help with the constipation, the side effects
of suboxone cannot possibly be life threatening and you really do risk your life every time you abuse illegal pills.

Hopefully you are just having a really bad day and reading these responses will help you change your opinion
of life on suboxone. I think most of us are capable of hearing someone diss suboxone, even if sub is what makes our
new lives possible...but now I am going to bring up something you may take offense at.

You mention that you are postponing oral surgery because you are on suboxone and won't be able to use
pain killers generally prescribed for painful dental work. Could it be that on some level you are romanticizing
your past abuse of vicodin and are looking for reasons to drop your sub therapy? If you have a therapist
or counselor, I think it would be a good move to discuss this possibility with him/her. The way you seem to think
you have only two choices (continue taking 16mg a day or quit taking it altogether) is a big clue.

Again, this is only a theory, and I hope I didn't make you uncomfortable.
I hope you have better days in the near future.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:15 am 
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Hey Hopeful!
This is one side effect for me that has been horrible if I'm not really careful about what I eat.
Even when I was using other opiates pain pills etc.. I never have encountered such a bad case of constipation.The sub has made it 10X worse!! I feel the same about food too! So strange. I love food usually.I feel like I'm never hungry! I used to have fav foods and now I really dont right now :?

Some things that help with the constipation issue for me are stool softeners,laxitives,prunes,fiber.You just have to stay on a good diet everyday!! I'm sure you already know all this..Just make sure once your better you keep up with the same fibers fruits veggies etc! I have also been eating the sunsweet ones (prunes) also dried apricots. I make sure to eat them DAILY.I know it's not that yummy lol but hey whatever works right? I also try and stay away from caffiene and foods that can cause the same problems. Ok about the dose.. I honestly don't think the dose makes ANY difference hun! Well for me it hasn't anyhow..I'm at 1.25 and the constipation has always been the same! If I don't stick to the fiber,softners and stuff I'm right back to wanting to die when I have to finally go!! I'm so sorry your feeling this way. I really feel for you and I'm here if ya ever need someone to talk to ok? I hope it gets better for you! I know how scary it can be. I truly worry about the long term effects that all of this will have on me :/
Take is easy sweetie and let us know how your feelin :)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:27 am 
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OK....I am very sorry but you made me laugh saying they are getting bigger and bigger. Only because I KNOW! I mean seriously?!? I know this is TMI but they have been so big they go right down the hold in the toilet and STILL peek out of the water. One clogged the toilet and my husband said I had absolutely no reason to complain about butt sex ever again :-)

OK.....I will stop now because it is TMI but what do you expect when you go 4 days without taking a crap. Luckily.....I don't get constipated except for every once in a blue moon and 10 dried apricots or 5 cups of coffee generally clears that right up.

The lack of appetite...I am not sure about since I am one of those people who claims that I have a craving for sweets while on sub. All opiates have done this to me. Swear it.

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with saying suboxone is crap given you qualified your reasons within the same post. HOWEVER, I think that Hatmaker makes a good point when she recommends being careful because this site was intended specifically so it didn't have all of the negativity surrounding suboxone on it. No one is saying you can't express how you feel or what is going on for you right now. People are merely asking for people to be specific because you certainly don't need a site where everyone is constantly complaining about sub not working or being crap when for many people that isn't the case. There is a happy medium here in my opinion.

Anyways, I am not sure about the loss of appetite in terms of what fixes that and you think it is the lack of eating that is causing you to get the constipation. I can't relate to the loss of appetite thing because I (unfortunately) do NOT have that problem. I wish I had that problem. No such luck. Everything tastes great to me. I guess you could force yourself to eat (apricots....don't forget ;-) and I also guess this is better than forcing yourself to work when you are in vicodin withdrawal.

I can relate to being sick of being on sub as I myself get there from time to time. Hang in there. Explore it fully.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:20 am 
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Hey there,

Sorry to hear you're having a rough go of it with the subs. It's kind of ironic that what could be a curse to others is a gift to some. The past year and a half, I had bad stomach problems which exacerbated my narcotic use. They are still not sure 100% what's going on, but IBS is a big possibility. The constipation effect actually makes things normal for me :-)
My younger sister has been on suboxone for almost a year now and has the same problem you do with the constipation. I know that she's used miralax to help her, as well as drinking plenty of fluids. I've used it before to help with a surgical prep, and it works pretty good. I even think they make a generic now too. I'm afraid I don't have any advice to offer regarding the loss of appetite because I haven't experienced that, I'm sorry. Whichever route you wish to take, I wish you all the luck in the world :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:24 pm 
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Hey newbeginning, have you been tested for Celiac disease? It's a wheat gluten intolerance that causes your stomach to act cuckoo. Eliminating any foods with wheat gluten is the only way to control it. BTW, wheat gluten is in a LOT of foods.


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