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 Post subject: What is Kratom?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:06 pm 
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Ello all! So I've been hearing about this "botanical herb" that's all over the smoke shops & places relevant to tobacco. However, the FDA hasn't approved of this substance & Im just curious to know what it is. I guess there's been some nasty salmonella outbreaks all over the country leaving kratom to blame. What is this stuff? What does it do to you? Is it a drug? How do we go about preventing our children from never touching it?






Ash

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 Post subject: Re: What is Kratom?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:55 pm 
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It's actually getting pretty close to being banned, which makes some people upset and others very happy. It is a plant grown in southeast Asia that is harvested and shipped to the U.S. Kratom has some of the same properties as opioids. People use it to get high or "treat" conditions, because the people who sell it advertise that it can do all sorts of things for you. Kind of a modern day "snake oil".

I'm not saying that Kratom doesn't have any effects though. Just that we don't know much about them. Kratom hasn't been evaluated by the FDA, which requires so many studies! The people who talk about it here on the forum are usually thinking of using it to relieve withdrawal symptoms, but there are those who have reported that they end up addicted to it. Some people have reported here that they became ill, like the people you mention who have gotten Salmonella from it.

They main problem with Kratom, as I see it, is that it's unregulated, both for its effects and for its production. There is no oversight while it is being grown, harvested, packaged, and shipped. While there are people who are "experts" on Kratom, they haven't studied it scientifically, and they can't guarantee that you won't get sick from using it.

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 Post subject: Re: What is Kratom?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:01 am 
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I am 100% totally against kratom. Here's a bit of what I read on Wikipedia.......



**********As of 2018, little is known of kratom's worth or safety as a therapeutic agent, since research into its use has been of poor quality.[8][9] In February 2018, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) stated that there is no evidence kratom is safe or effective for treating any condition.[6] Some people take it for managing chronic pain, for treating opioid withdrawal symptoms, or – more recently – for recreational purposes.[3][9] Onset of effects typically begins within 5 to 10 minutes and lasts 2 to 5 hours.[3]

Common minor side effects may include nausea, vomiting, and constipation.[3] More severe side effects may include respiratory depression (decreased breathing), seizure, addiction, and psychosis.[3][6][10][11] Other side effects may include high heart rate and blood pressure, trouble sleeping, and, rarely, liver toxicity.[3][12][13] When use is stopped, withdrawal symptoms may occur.[7][9] Deaths have occurred with kratom both by itself and mixed with other substances.[6][14] Between 2011 and 2017, 44 kratom-related deaths occurred, with one involving kratom alone.[6] Nine kratom-related deaths occurred in Sweden in 2011 and 2012, all involving a mixture of kratom with other opioids.[14]**********


Sorry if that's not a very good copy and paste, I'm on a phone. There's more about it on Wikipedia, I just highlighted a section. If u look online it talks about which strain of kratom is best, heck I don't know if it's in pill form or how it's sold. Is it plucked off the plant and shoved in a bag and sold lol I have no idea about that part.

What I do know is that kratom wasn't 'out there' when I was in active addiction and I'm thankful for that. When I was in active addiction, I would have drank a bottle of cough syrup or anything else to avoid withdrawal. I bet I would have taken this stuff if I would've had access to it bk then. I would have taken it on the hope that it would have kept me from getting sick. My mind wasn't in a healthy decision making state bk then, I think some ppl are desperate like that to avoid withdrawal and will take anything and unfortunately this isn't safe.

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 Post subject: Re: What is Kratom?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:24 am 
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Wow, but hey, if the govt can make money from it, theres no way they'll ban it. My husband & I went into a hookah shop the other day & there was kratom EVERYWHERE. People were coming in & buying it in bulk. Saleh (my husband) asked the guy at the counter what was so great about it, the guy told us exactly what Amy said, it works wonders if you're detoxing from opiates. He also said that he sells over a hundred bags of the junk a day!
& We were watching the news the other day & seen that there were two new salmonella outbreaks from Kratom in Oregon. I don't want my sisters or brothers trying the stuff & then getting addicted to it... They are bonafide athletes. They don't need that crap or any sort of substance that is gonna change your mood. If my mother ever tried to give them pills like she did for me & my brother (who is now dead because of her) I think it would draw the line for her, like she would be completely banned from ever coming close to my family again.



Anyways, thanks Jenn & Amy for the responses!
I'm always here for you all!


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Ash

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 Post subject: Re: What is Kratom?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:26 pm 
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I call it unicorn blood. If you don’t get the reference, it’s from the first Harry Potter book. The semi resurrected Voldemort drinks it (by way of Professor Quirrel) to maintain his life. Not expand it, not better it, just prolong it. I have taken, and often continue to take kratom in the absence of better alternatives, usually toward the end of a script when I am low or out of my meds. I started it back in my Norco popping days. I’ve taken it fairly extensively; different strains in small to very large doses. The worst side effects I could note, and this is at VERY high doses, was slightly increased heart rate, confusion and nausea. Overall, taking five to ten capsules every 3-4 hours does keep my withdrawal symptoms at bay. I’ve not heard anything about salmonella poisoning, but that’s certainly a concern. I say none of this as a recommendation for taking kratom, anymore than I would suggest drinking unicorn blood. The former is efficacious at halting, even reversing withdrawal symptoms (in my own experience), and the latter will give you a prolonged, albeit cursed, life. Just my two cents. I don’t see it as dangerous. I’d argue it has mild addictive potential, but it pales in comparison to that inherent to other opioids. Again, just my two cents.


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 Post subject: Re: What is Kratom?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:01 pm 
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Unicorn blood! Hahaha! That's awesome.


So what exactly is it used for? Why do people use it for opioid withdrawal? & If it does produce a high, then why isn't illegal?


School me Bunsonbyrner! I've only heard about kratom in recent months.


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Ash

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 Post subject: Re: What is Kratom?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:54 am 
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I’m going to have to be careful with what I say, as apparently my previous post contained something found inflammatory by the board moderators. I’m still trying to ascertain what the offending statement was, as I have nothing negative to say about Buprenorphine or Suboxone. I hope that it’s just a misunderstanding. I don’t want to promote the use of kratom as an alternative as I don’t think it should be considered such. Nonetheless, my previous sendup on the topic encompasses most of what I know about it and it’s effects. It works in a pinch, I’ll say that. I think that banning it would be a knee jerk move. A lack of study is a lack of study, and should not result in negative or positive action until such a study can be made. It is a sleeping dog that I believe we can let lie.


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 Post subject: Re: What is Kratom?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:45 am 
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Kratom is like many substances. A portion of the population can become addicted. Just like alcohol, cocaine, opiates or marijuana. Remember, for the person that is taking opiates appropriately, they don't understand what the big deal is either. If you go to pain forums there is a great deal of anger towards those that are making their life difficult getting treatment.
Since this is a recovery forum we try to avoid substances that can lead to other problems for the members. Using would not be part of the transformative process to becoming sober.


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 Post subject: Re: What is Kratom?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:21 pm 
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I agree Docm2,



I just wanted to know what the heck it was because my husband & I kept hearing about it on the news & we went to get hookah supplies not too long ago & kratom was EVERYWHERE. I had never heard of it up until that point. I am happy to say that I am one year sober as of April 1st, 2018. I also take my buprenorphine maintenance VERY SERIOUSLY. I apologize for bringing the topic up, just wanted to get an understanding of what the stuff was.



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Ash

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 Post subject: Re: What is Kratom?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:23 pm 
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Ashlee ,

There is an episode about Kratom on Dr. Oz. It is actually very interesting about Kratom. I posted the link below where it was on youtube. I was surprised that it would be on a show like that. But they were not promoting it or negating it. It was like " the jury is still out" on this herb.
https://www.doctoroz.com/episode/are-ar ... 3799034001


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 Post subject: Re: What is Kratom?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:04 pm 
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I'm gonna have to check it out!


I'm making some artisan bread right now, so give me a wee bit & I'll let ya know what I think! Thanks raudy1975!


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Ash

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