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 Post subject: What a headache!
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:49 pm 
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I am on my forth day of subs. I have been getting headaches and some nausea. Plus I get super sleepy about an hour after my dose. I have a medium tolerance and I can only handle 2 mgs. of sub at a time so i have been dosing 2mgs. in the morning and 2 more at night. When I was using my DOC I was taking 60 to 80 mgs. of lortab or percocets a day with the odd roxy 30 thrown in every now and then. So I wasn't ever putting away massive amounts of drugs but they were running my life and depleting me financially( the subs/doctor visit are going to also since I am uninsured though).
I got really opiate sick the first time I took suboxone that i got from a friend when I was in full withdrawal. I took half of an 8 mg strip and felt like I was going to die. so when i got prescribed and the doctor gave me the go ahead to "take a little as possible because this medicine is so expensive" I thought that I could handle 2 mgs twice a day. The first couple of days were fine but now I wake up with a headache and mild nausea that seems to linger throughout the day. This morning i felt so bad I skipped my early dose altogether and waiting till about 4 in the afternoon to take it.
Everything I have read here on the forum suggests that I need to either lower my dose more,raise it and take only 4 mgs in the a.m. or try spitting out some of the excess saliva produced after my strip is fully dissoved.Conversly some people say don't spit any of it out because I will lose some of the meds!
I am hoping you more expirienced folks can help me out here...Thanks


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 10:12 pm 
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I don't think you realize how great this is! You have a relatively not so bad addiction. 2mg is WAYYY more than you need.

I highly suggest you try taking 0.5mg or less. You will actually feel better. The symptoms you are having is no doubt the symptoms from taking more than you need. You should not really need to dose twice a day. But if you feel you need to at first then know that you really should not need to after the first day or two.

Also, please do not use the suboxone for more than a week. After about a week is up please please try stopping. You should have almost no withdrawals.

Just know what so many people wish they knew DO NOT USE SUBOXONE FOR TOO LONG OR YOU WILL HAVE AN ADDICTION THAT IS MUCH HARDER TO KICK THAN THE ONE YOU HAVE NOW.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 11:45 pm 
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You're right, it could be a couple of different possibilities. What do your pupils look like? I'm thinking by your description of getting sleepy that you're on too high a dose (along with your prior usage history). Try taking less and see how you feel. If headaches are a problem, you might want to spit after it dissolves as well. Those could be due to the naloxone. You could either take 2 mg all at once in the am or take 1 mg twice per day. Normally once per day is best, but at small doses it just doesn't have the long half-life. It's what works best for you.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 11:46 pm 
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sybilanne.......
it sounds like you may indeed, need to lower your dose, sounds like it could very well be the problem.

You could always try taking the 2 mg once a day first, and see how it goes.

I think the rate of "suboxone addiction" is pretty damn low. just my opinion.
If I was going to 'seek' drugs and buy them off the street, and take more and more and more, it surely wouldnt be suboxone. and thats the definition of "addiction"

an "average dose" of suboxone is 16mg. I started out on 24mg, and take 16 now.
the reason being, for addiction and to keep away cravings, your 'receptors' need to be full. The same as they were when you were on your DOC.

Well, I hope I helped.
Please dont think your going to be 'addicted' to suboxone. addiction and dependance are two totally different things.

And I hope you find the right dose sooner, than later :)

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:53 am 
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sooverthis said:

Quote:
Also, please do not use the suboxone for more than a week. After about a week is up please please try stopping. You should have almost no withdrawals.

Just know what so many people wish they knew DO NOT USE SUBOXONE FOR TOO LONG OR YOU WILL HAVE AN ADDICTION THAT IS MUCH HARDER TO KICK THAN THE ONE YOU HAVE NOW.


This is YOUR opinion, yet you are presenting it as fact. Like Amber said above, there is a HUGE difference between addiction and dependency. Yes, those of us on sub maintenance are dependent on sub, but NOT addicted to it. Addiction is a set of negative, self-destructive behaviors that tear our lives and the people in them totally apart. Does being on suboxone do that? Generally speaking, NO. (For some people not ready for recovery who don't use sub right, maybe the answer is yes.)

Further, suboxone is generally easier to get off of than full agonists, as long as one does a proper, slow taper. Addicts like us can't even control our usage enough to even TRY to taper off our DOC. With suboxone, we can! So please watch how you present your opinions and remember this is a pro-suboxone site.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:45 am 
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Wow...thank you Hatmaker and Amber! That first reply scared the crap out of me.My induction made me a believer in sub
after suffering from terrible muscle aches and rls etc. I got some relief and after sleeping like a baby I woke up the next morning with a new attitude of hope.
I, like many addicts,have an actual painful condition which untreated makes my full time chef job almost impossible.I was on oxycontin for a while and managed to not abuse it at all because of the level of relief I got.But then I lost my insurance(you know...that old chestnut) and found myself self medicating.
So I was all ready to take the sub just once a day but about 5 in the afternoon,after busting my ass at work,I am in pain again and my energy level drops.So I am going to try Hats suggestion of taking 1mg. in the morning and 1 more at night.My pupils are small but not pinpoints by the way. I am not getting really hot or having what I call outburst vomitting(not much warning) which is how I expirience any overload of opiates. I didn't wait a whole 12 hours between doses either so maybe the half life thing started to overlap?
I only took 3mgs.yesterday-I took it in the evening after my headache eased up-and this morning I feel fine.

To Sooverthis-I appreciate your concern that I am trading one addiction for a worse one.Unfortunately i am even more apprehensive about being off suboxone in a week or even two.Believe me as soon as I knew I would feel them again i would be gobbling up pain pills. I do hope that one day i will be able to taper down but right now I need to try this.Plus I just spent an ungodly amount of money on my first doctor visit and nearly gave my very supportive fiance a heart attack at the Walgreens register when he paid for prescription so I am kind of committed here.

I am really pleased to be a part of this online community and feel as if I have a support system. Thanks!


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 10:52 am 
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**Thank you Hatmaker for stepping in.. I was actually just coming back to this post to say something since I didnt have time last night. Almost seems like we're gonna have another "NoAlibi" or "Ironic" problem.**


I did also want to say that no 2 people are the same in regards to their dose needed.. the dose you need depends on alot of factors that do include but are not limited to what your habit was, it also depends on your body and metabolism. Everyone is different in those aspects so no one can tell you what dose is right for you or that you're taking too much. Just because one person is okay on 2mg doesnt mean the next person will be. Instead of worrying about how long you will be on these meds you need to focus on recovery and fixing things with you. Do not stop taking subs until YOU are comfortable with it, until YOU are sure you're ready to be off it. One or two weeks is def. not enough time to work on yourself and be sure you wont relapse, maybe a few people can go off in that time and not relapse but MOST cannot. There is no time limit to be on sub, its different for everyone. Sub is NOT trading one addiction for the other, if its used right then it def. saves lives, I know it did mine. Please try not to listen to the negative things people say, educate yourself about it as much as possible through facts, not peoples opinions. I wish you lots of luck with everything and hope you stick around, you will get alot of support and help here even though we do occasionally get the anti-sub people posting bad info.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:21 pm 
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By the end of my illicit use of opioids my tolerance was roughly 120 mg of methadone a day. That is a lot, but by no means unheard of. As some cap out their tolerance to nearly 600 mg a day. At any rate, my psychiatrist started me out at 4 mg a day of Buprenorphine (I am prescribed the mono therapy of the generic drug) and with in the first 3 weeks I suffered pressure headaches, and even began to nod off. I discovered that for me, it was a matter of simply adjusting to the medication. As I am now on 12 mg a day, what he started me out on was not enough to curb craving. After a time all the side effects I encountered just sort of faded away on their own. For me, I don't feel that I experienced those side effects as a result of the dose being too high, but rather as a result of the medication reaching stable plasma concentrations.

In addition to that, Buprenorphine has partial intrinsic activity at the mu-recepter sites. That could also account for why so many, including myself experience headaches in the beginning of treatment. sense unlike our DOC with was no doubt a full agonist. I am assuming most of you are aware, but intrinsic activity simply means the degree by with a receptor site is activated. Greater intrinsic activity the greater euphoria and analgesic affect.

With that said, in response to the poster who claims that Suboxone is worse to come off of than what then was our DOC, I have to disagree. Buprenorphines magic and potential is demonstrated when used as a long-term, albeit life-long treatment alternative to the statistically ineffective in/out patient drug programs. I say that for the very reasons listed above: As a partial agonist having limited activity on the opioid receptor system the intensity of withdrawl is not nearly as burdensome. And statistically, many who discontinue buprenorphine treatment quickly return to former patters of drug use. We all must be weary of what people say when it's obvious there is bias involved.

I apologize for any vagueness in my experience and knowledge. I suppose I could write a dissertation on the matter but that would be superfluous.

Now it's time to go out for a smoke!


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:48 pm 
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Good to hear from you Entropy. Your post reminded me that when I was on Subutex many years ago, I experienced headaches as well. It indicates that the headaches aren't just a result of the naloxone alone.

Though there's no way to prove it, I associate any of the side-effects of buprenorphine that I also experienced on naltrexone with bupe's antagonist activity. And I remember I got similar headaches from naltrexone as well as bupe, and a kinda edgy irritability I got from both as well.

When the 'partial intrinsic activity' of bupe doesn't provide enough effect relative to a person's previous use, they generally feel withdrawal like effects, cravings etc. For me, headache isn't something I associate with withdrawal, which is why I associate that symptom more with the antagonist effect.

But it's all theorising really, and it's late here too I dunno if this makes any sense?


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