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 Post subject: What did I do?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:43 am 
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Hey everyone. I've been browsing different forums all night looking for answers to a few of my questions, seemed like posting on here would get the best response.

I was addicted to pain meds for about 4 years straight. Finally got myself clean about 3 years ago, which only lasted the first 2 years. I started dabbling here and there with pain meds again after loosing a close family member/having a lot of dental work done within the past year. I would always have 1 or 2 suboxone on stand-by to get me through any minor WD's after I would stop.

Recently, I had to go through 3 major oral surgeries within the past month. Besides what the dentist/hosptal was giving me for pain, I was using this as an excuse to get my own pain meds on the street. About a week ago I was finally able to find a few suboxone, to get me back to reality and get myself off of the pain meds. I've never had the proper insurance/cash to see a suboxone dr. and follow a legit detox/maintenance plan.

Usually I would be okay after 2-3 days on subs, maybe sweat it out somewhat for the first 2 days after stopping.

This time I sort of tricked myself into thinking I would need more, so I've been taking suboxone every day for about a week, and now I'm worried.

Now I'm at the point where I need to stop asap before I can't on my own. I was taking between 6-8mg's each day. After reading a blog written by the Dr. that runs this forum, I found out about the ceiling effect and how I was basically filling my opiate receptors to the full 100% after only 4 mg's and pretty much wasting any more that I talked myself into taking.

So now I'm left with 1 and 1/2 8 mg subs, with the option to possibly get a few more if needed. I was hoping someone could give me some sort of a tapering break down as to how I could achieve a fast-taper with the least amount of suboxone needed and with the least amount of WD's. Sorry for rambling but I know a lot of info is needed to understand the full situation. Thanks in advance for any help.

Also, I know people get mad when they hear someone is buying a drug that saved their life illegitimately, but for me that is the only option at this point after digging myself into the opiate whole once again.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:58 am 
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Hey and welcome.

Dr J seems to have revised the 4mg ceiling idea. For a while it seemed to be set in stone, but a few times on video recently he's said the ceiling is closer to 8-12mg.

If I were in your situation, and had my heart set of going opioid-free, I'd do a rapid taper over the next 3 days, trying to have a maximum of 1mg on any of those days. Becoming dependent on Sub is a gradual process, but I'd imagine once you take it over 1-2 weeks you'll may start to experience Sub related withdrawal. I've done a few heroin detoxes with Suboxone but I would never take it longer than 6 days. As long as I didn't take it more than 6 days, I could stop the Sub and escape 90% of the heroin withdrawal.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:53 am 
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TeeJay wrote:
Hey and welcome.

Dr J seems to have revised the 4mg ceiling idea. For a while it seemed to be set in stone, but a few times on video recently he's said the ceiling is closer to 8-12mg.

If I were in your situation, and had my heart set of going opioid-free, I'd do a rapid taper over the next 3 days, trying to have a maximum of 1mg on any of those days. Becoming dependent on Sub is a gradual process, but I'd imagine once you take it over 1-2 weeks you'll may start to experience Sub related withdrawal. I've done a few heroin detoxes with Suboxone but I would never take it longer than 6 days. As long as I didn't take it more than 6 days, I could stop the Sub and escape 90% of the heroin withdrawal.


Hey Teejay thanks for the reply and the quick response..

I definitely want to go opiod free, I spent 4-5 years relying on pills to get me out of bed everyday, which is why I'm so stressed that I even let myself get this far again. I've thought about extended suboxone treatment to also help take away any future cravings, but I wouldn't even be able to cover it with my current insurance.

At this point, I guess my only option is a rapid-taper...? I am a little worried about WDing hard if I'm jumping down to 1mg max per day after taking 6-8mg daily for the last 7 days. With the people/family that I'm around everyday, I can't really show any signs of being sick. Plus I've always been a wuss when it comes to WD's. One of my biggest problems is that I tend to psych myself out into thinking I always "need more", a problem most opiod users encounter I'm sure. I can literally trick myself into thinking I'm sick, to the point where I break out in cold-sweats, in a matter of seconds.

That's how I originally got so deep 4 years ago and how I ended up at 6-8 mg's a day this past week.
Any other times within the past year that I've used suboxone to get off of pain meds, I would be able to get by with only 8mg, stretched out over 3 days, without any effects. It was too good to be true :?

Do you or does anyone think I'm going to notice and really feel the effects of jumping from what I was taking down to 1mg so quickly? Also, I previously said that I had 1 and 1/2 subs left. I could most likely get a few more if needed, but of course I'd much rather just get through it with what I have now. Not sure if that's possible without really paying the price.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:25 pm 
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Hey New Guy,

I'm gonna say you can probably stop the Sub right now. You've only been taking them for a week, right?

At the very least, I'd try skipping a day and see how things go. Suboxone has an average half life of 37 hours. With what you have in your system, you should be OK for at least a day, then go from there. If you start to feel crappy, then like TJ said, take a small amount.

In your case, you don't wanna drag your taper out too long because all you're doing is staying on Sub longer and longer.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:53 pm 
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You may get some withdrawals if you stop now ... but money on they'll be less than if you continued taking Sub to make it easier.

When I did buprenorphine detoxes to get off heroin, they'd normally give me the day I went in 2-4mg, day 2 8mg, day 3 12+mg, 4- 6mg, 5- 4mg, 6- 1-2mg and I'd be fine after that. I dunno how it works in the brain, but somehow it manages to stave off heroin withdrawal without just delaying it...


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:08 pm 
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Hi New Guy! Welcome to the forum! I just want to add that few people here will judge you for getting sub off the street. Most will recommend that you go to a sub doctor if you need a long term treatment plan, but also recognize that not every situation is going to be perfect. Even my sub doctor has said to me (a couple times, in fact) that if he were a parent trying to help his kid get off heroin, he would get sub on the street if they couldn't find a doc.

TJ and Romeo give great advice, so keep picking their brains!

Amy

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:02 pm 
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Thanks everyone for all the advice, especially TeeJay for getting back to me so quickly two different times.

Well, what I ended up doing was a cut-in-half taper. I was a little nervous about jumping down to only 1mg, but I was also taking into consideration what Romeo said about not dragging the taper on any longer than needed. I really wasn't sure if I could actually be psychically dependent on the suboxone after only 7 days. Plus, I now know for sure that I was tricking myself into thinking I was sick or needed more, especially after I experienced for the first time the "Less is more" effect within the last 2 days.

Back to the taper. So, after kicking myself in the ass for taking wayyy more than I actually needed for 7 days straight, I jumped down to 4mg the day after starting this thread. Then, yesterday I took 3mg, and today only 1mg.

At this point, I have exactly 2 mg's left. I was considering taking another .5mg tonight. Then I planned on either trying to skip a day tmrw, or taking 1 mg tmrw, skipping the next day (Saturday), and then taking the last .5mg Sunday, if needed.

My friend has 1 more sub on the side for me, but I haven't called him yet for it, as I'm hoping I won't even need it.

Again, I hope I'm not offending anyone with the fact that I'm not actually receiving these from a doctor. I did and still do have legitimate pain issues that brought me to this point. I just don't need or want to be on a continued pain management program, nor do I have the insurance that would cover any extended treatment.

Thanks again for all the responses, and if anyone has anymore advice or opinions please let me know.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:25 pm 
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Hey guys. I'm not sure anyone is still really following this thread, but I figured I'd update it anyway. Hoping someone out there with any advice will reply back.

I've been having a real hard time jumping to under 1.5 mg's. I've only been on suboxen for a little over 2 weeks now, even though I planned on only 3-4 days, which obviously didn't happen lol. Now I'm really starting to get worried though.
I mean I had no problems/withdrawals jumping from 8mg's to 5mg then even down to 2mg. I'm guessing it was because so much was already built up in my system from those first few days of doing 8mgs a day.

So now it's day 17. I don't want to/can't keep extending my taper, but I also really can't be sick in front of the people that I'm around everyday. I've been able to stay around 1.5 mg's for the past few days. Now I'm looking to jump down to at least 1mg before jumping to .75, or maybe even just trying to completely jump from 1mg.

Also, I don't have access to many more of the strips. I'm down to about 1 and a half (12 mg's) with the option to possibly get 1 or 2 more if needed. I'd rather just finish what I have and then jump from wherever I'm at, instead of bugging my friend for another strip again.

Also, I still haven't gone a full 24 hours without dosing. I usually dose twice a day, once when I wake up and once a few hours before bed.

Any advice? What am I doing wrong? Is the final jump going to be a brutal as I'm tricking myself into thinking it will be, or do you guys think I'll be able the hide withdrawals around family/my boss without too much effort? Thanks in advance.


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 Post subject: The Big Jump
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:16 pm 
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Hi New Guy,

It is really hard to say just how bad your w/d's will be. And I am like you when it comes to thinking about not having my drug. Most of us make much more out of w/d's then it really is. Every time I'd stop the Hydro I would dread the first couple of days. After going through very minor withdrawals I realized it was my brain telling me it would be worse. It must be part of the addiction because we sure aren't the only ones. And for some reason my w/d's just aren't that bad. We'll see with the Sub when the time comes.

The longer you drag this out the more your body gets used to Suboxone. And you said yourself that it will be hard to get more later on so there's your incentive to jump. Just do it and take micro crumbs of the Sub if you end up feeling too lousy to be in front of people. You will probably be fine but that is only a guess. What I mean is that it will be more minor than major. Tell your addict brain to shut up and let recovery begin.

FYI, no one is going to judge you about getting it from the street. The addict needs help one way or another and your case is not unique. Mostly it is because the legal system (DEA) may make it harder for us to get our med if they find too many on the street and feel they can't control it. Was there ever a drug they could control? I am a bit surprised just how easy it seems to be to buy it on the street. It is so expensive getting it legally I just assumed the price would be too high for a profit. I sure was wrong.

Thanks for the update and keep posting your progress. A little sneezing and a bottom end clean out won't kill ya!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:05 pm 
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Hey New Guy,

When you say you've been having a real hard time getting below 1.5mg, what do you mean? What kind of symptoms are you encountering and how severe are they?

Suboxone wd, especially from a low dose, is usually considered to pretty mild. I think Rule62 is right in that your brain may be amplifying some minor discomfort you're feeling into what you consider to be bad wd symptoms. I think your fear of wd is paralyzing you, not the actual wd symptoms. Know what I mean?

You said, "I don't want to/can't keep extending my taper, but I also really can't be sick in front of the people that I'm around everyday"....looks like you've got a choice to make. Knowing what I know about Suboxone, I'm gonna tell you to put your big boy pants on and either get down to 1mg for 2 or 3 days, then down to .5mg for 2 or 3 days, then quit or just quit now. You will not be deathly ill in front of the people you're around everyday....you may visit the bathroom more than usual, which Imodium will help you with, but you're not gonna be puking your guts out or anything like that.

You have a decision to make and it seems like you're looking for the easy way out, but I don't think there is a pain free way to get out from where you're at now.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:13 am 
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Hey everyone. Just wanted to update this as it's been a few months.
Well there's a good side and a bad side to my recent story.

****CLIFF NOTES ON BOTTOM TO AVOID THE TL;DR****

Since last posting here, I still haven't stopped suboxone.
I am lingering between 2 and 3 mg's per day, varying frequently, but never going over 3mg's.

The good side to this is that, since being on suboxone, I haven't even considered taking any of my drugs of choice,
IE: Oxy, Percocet.
The thought of getting "high" rarely enters my mind anymore, it's almost scary how I never think about it.

Since being on suboxone, I've moved out of my run-down windowless basement apartment that I lived in with one of my parents for the past 6 years.
Within a matter of 3 months I completely changed my life, mostly for the best.
I'm living on my own now (with a roommate that's also family) in a nicer place.
I'm able to work more manual labor type jobs (even when I was 100% clean I always felt I never had the energy to keep up at certain jobs that I can now work)
I've been a lot social, going out to concerts, not sitting home as much as I usually would (even when I was "sober").
I find that one of the main similarities/reasons that I like being on subuxone, besides keeping me thought-free of any other opiates, is that I get the same energy that I always felt I lacked while NOT on any type of opiate.

So in my mind, these are all good things.
The only problem is, I still have the monkey on my shoulder.
I can feel the anxiety begin instantly when I start to think that I am now, once again, fully physically dependent on a chemical to get me through the day.
I've become so used to this new "better" life of mine, that I haven't payed any attention to the fact that I still need to get off of this drug.
As I previously stated, I don't visit a Dr. to obtain my subs. A friend of mine that has been cutting back helps me out when he goes once a month.
I've yet to deal with the horrible, inevitable, situation of him running out, or not being able to supply me.
I guess with the oxy (that I was really bad with a few years ago), I'd at least always know that I had a problem.
I would never be able to obtain more than a few days worth, so the thought that soon enough I'd run out was always there.

With subuxone, I've been able to get enough for at least a month at a time. I'm not even thinking about the fact that one day, I'm gonna run out or not be able to get them as easily as I have. I need to stop BEFORE then.

I was doing a little soul searching tonight and realized that as good as things are right now, I have a very painful few weeks in my near future.
Another problem is that most of the people in my life don't know that I'm currently taking suboxone. Even if they know I had a problem with oxy a few years ago, I've felt people wouldn't see a difference between being hooked on oxy vs. taking suboxone as a treatment/maintenance to stay OFF of another opiate.
So it's going to be hard to lock myself up and sweat it out if needed without my family or someone asking "What's going on, u okay?"

I'll stop rambling now, I guess I'm trying to say that I'm open to any advice, any opinions on what I should be doing to at least start moving towards being able to jump.
(I am also a heavy marijuana user, at least 3-4x a day for over a decade, figured I'd throw that in).

I have less than 10 subs left, my buddy goes to refill again in about a week. I was hoping that maybe, I could set myself a goal, start a taper schedule, so that I won't even need to call him next week.

Edit: Since starting to write this, I spent some time reading the stories of other posters who have tried to jump.
It seems like for the most part, people can't avoid going through hell.
But, there are some who seem to find ways of getting back into a normal daily routine as early as 3 days after their last dose.
As of right now, it seems like the best option is tapering as low as possible.
I've seen people on here talk about the water taper or cutting the films into tiny micro .25 doses.

As everyone seems to know, once you start jumping from anything under 2mg's, it seems to get a lot harder.
I've only been on suboxone for around 4 months now.
It was easy as hell jumping from 8mgs to 6mgs, then 6mgs even down to 2mgs.
Now, whenever I attempt jumping from 2.5mgs down to even 2mgs, I'll end up talking myself into doing MORE than I usually would.
Same thing that happens to me whenever I say I'm gonna start working out, or eating better..I'll use this as my excuse to "indulge" that night, but then of course never end up doing what I sought out to do in the first place.
I'm very good with psyching myself out, which is why I struggle really bad when it comes to tapering/withdrawing.
So this is where I'm at, 4 months later, still taking at least 2mg's per day. Which brings me back to my original thread title, WHAT DID I DO? It seems that the shovel I was using to dig myself out of a little hole broke and now I'm stuck in a bigger hole, with no shovel to get out.


****Cliff Notes on my current situation:****

2008: Got hooked on Vicodin, then Percocet, eventually Oxycontin, ~150mg's per day, for over 4 years.
Stopped cold-turkey in Oct 2008.

Dec 2011/ Jan 2012:
Was clean (besides pot) without any suboxone, NA, or support until Dec 2011.
I started to dabble after loosing someone close (family member) for the first time.
If I took any opiates for longer than a week, I'd use subuxone for a quick 3-5 day detox to avoid any mild withdrawals, then jump without any issue.
I would never let myself go more than 14 days on Oxy and suboxone.

August 2012:
Was clean for a few months until having a 3 different major oral surgeries between Aug-Oct.

Oct 2012:
After all of the surgeries/pain medicine were done, I got a few subs to do my usual 3-5 detox, then jump.
This time, I couldn't jump. I kept psyching myself out, taking too much, ect. Continued taking suboxone.

Jan 2013 (-Present day-):
Dosing between 2-3mg's per day.
I take 75% of my dose when I start my day, and the other 25% about 6 hours before bed.
I was able to get my dose down to around 1.5 mg's about a month ago with the help of Xanax, but as soon as I stopped the Xanax I'd end up slowly creeping back up towards 2-3mgs.

As much as the Subuxone has helped me either snap back from a relapse, or get through any post surgery pain/withdrawals from pain pills, or just keepany thoughts of getting "high" out of my head, I want to get back to the point where I don't NEED it everyday.
I originally started taking this medicine to get past any withdrawals, now it's like the longer I take it, the deeper this hole I've dug myself into gets.

I'm open to any and all advice/criticism/opinions on where I should go from here.
Thanks for reading and GL to anyone else dealing with a similar struggle.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:08 pm 
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I to have been on it for so long now that I wonder if its even possible to get rid of this drug. A good friend of mine went to rehab and he said they used suboxone for one week to help him get off the roxy habit. So I guess the one week thing has passed for you.

Sorry I dont have any advice. This place is new to me and I'm just starting to read the messages.

BD


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:19 pm 
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Given you've been taking Sub for a lil while now, I'd maybe extend the taper a bit longer and reduce down further.... ie instead of jumping at 1mg, jumping at 0.1 - 0.5mg. That should soften your landing a bit.

The other option would be to see if you can get on Sub legitimately and maintain yourself on a low dose so you can taper yourself slowly.

The unfortunate thing about Suboxone I've found is that ... the longer you stay on it, the harder it is to get off it in terms of withdrawals. Given your dose has stayed pretty low, this won't be as much of an issue for you as it is for many. But I found in the past after staying on Sub 1-2 months, a 1mg jump was still a bit uncomfortable. Definitely try and reduce yourself a bit lower if you don't want people to question your symptoms.

Good luck!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:03 am 
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I just read through this thread and just wanted to say a few things.. I am in no way trying to be rude, mean or disrespectful but its always good for people like us to hear what others think and remember this is my opinion based on my experience/knowledge of sub and its use...

1- Based on the timeline you have given us about your abuse history, In my opinion you should not have ever went on sub in the first place.. Most of us have made many many attempts at getting clean and we were either on the verge of losing everything or already had, basically without sub there was no way we were ever gonna get off the drugs, we turned to sub as a last resort after all else failing.. you on the other hand dont fall into any of that.. it sounds to me like you are able to stop using, you just lack coping skills and tools to STAY clean which brings me to my #..

2- Sub isnt treatment, its a tool to help you while you get the help you need. Just taking sub is not gonna keep you clean. You need to go to therapy, groups.. some type of treatment.. if you go off sub without doing something, you still lack the skills that brought you to addiction in the first place so eventually you will relapse.

3- From what you said, in my opinion.. most of your "WD symptoms" are in your head. You would have to take 1.5mg for a few days before you even felt a difference in dose and at one point you had only been on sub for 2 weeks and couldnt get below 1.5mg, I dont think you would be seeing too many issues like that being on it only 2 weeks.. at that point your body would be just starting to become dependent on it.

4- "Now, whenever I attempt jumping from 2.5mgs down to even 2mgs, I'll end up talking myself into doing MORE than I usually would."--- This is just one of the few examples from your posts that to be scream addictive behavior.. just one more reason why sub isnt the answer for you.. treatment sounds like it is though.. It almost sounds like you have turned sub into your drug of choice.. all you speak about is how you have stayed on it and cant jump because of the feeling it gives you.. you say it gives you energy, puts you in a better mood, you've been more outgoing and youve became used to your better life.. to me it sounds like you are on sub because of the way it makes you feel and that fact that you dont think about percocet anymore is just a added plus.

5- Its always better to get a doctor and legally get sub.. I have a bad feeling that diversion is gonna be what ruins everything for us doing well in our programs, I am definitely one of those people that get irritated when people are buying/selling sub on the street.. I can understand maybe getting it on the street til you can find a doctor but actively look for a doctor, dont continue to get it off the street. A doctor would refer you to programs and treatment and you would get the help you really need.. sub is doing nothing but putting off the inevitable, when you do get off sub and you do no form of treatment, you will be in the same place as before you started sub.

Im sorry if you took offense to anything I said, it definitely was not my intention. Sometimes I come across threads discussing people being put on subs that shouldnt be on subs and in my opinion you shouldnt be on subs from what you describe. Your problems dont lie with getting clean, you can and have done that.. your problems lie with staying clean.. you need to learn to live without drugs.. sub cannot help you with that.. and I honestly believe that because you really had no clue what you were doing, all you did was turn sub into your DOC and until you get the help you need, you will never be in a better spot than where you were in active addiction. Good Luck with everything and I really hope that you see my good intentions in this post.. I really do only wanna help and sometimes us addicts need to hear the negative things from an outsiders point of view.. I do hope you stick around, you can learn alot from this forum and it sounds like you dont have much support family/friend wise but you can come here for support whenever you need to.. I wish you the best.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:36 pm 
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I see where you are coming from BM. A lot of people, and especially people who have had a hard time getting off sub, think that sub should be reserved for the last resort. For the person who has tried everything else. My own experience, however, causes me to disagree.

I got on suboxone after ratting myself out to my pain doctor that I was a liar and an addict. I was in a level of desperation that was unacceptable for me, and I was sick of lying to everyone, so I reached out for help. I had never tried going cold turkey. I had never gone to a 12 step meeting or rehab. I had also never heard of suboxone. I made phone calls to a couple of rehabs and was advised to contact an addictionologist, which I did. These places also advised me to get on suboxone. So that's what I did. I was on 100 to 140 mg of percocet/day and I ended up on 16 mg of sub/day.

I've been on sub for 1.5 years, but almost a year of that has been tapering down to 2.5 mg/day, which is where I am today. I have had a few bumps in the road, a few withdrawal symptoms here and there, but the taper has been very doable. I expect that I will be off sub by next winter.

My point is that, yes, I could have gone on the roller coaster ride of quitting and relapsing, during which time I could have hurt my family and gotten into legal trouble. In that scenario I could end up divorced, estranged from my beloved son, broke, etc. Instead, I have used my time on suboxone to see an addictions therapist, to work on myself, and to start the process of becoming an addiction counselor myself.

I believe that I am far better off today because I went on suboxone when I did. I'm very happy with my choice. Anyway, I just wanted to offer up my experience to show that it might be better for some of us to go directly on suboxone and avoid the upheaval of the relapse/rehab cycle.

Amy

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:14 pm 
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So BM.....why do you take suboxone then?
Since you know what's best for this guy and say he doesn't meet your requirements to be on it and just said it lifts his mood and allows him to live a better life without street drugs....why do you take it?
Everyone is such a great doctor to others on here until a real doctor says something and then it must be wrong.
Idk. I just know that you can't possibly know if he needs or doesn't need suboxone or if his withdrawals are real or not. Thats all.

But I am interested in hearing why you take suboxone then...since apparently it doesn't lift your mood, prevent you from using other opiates, or give you a better life. According to what you say is just bad about how it affects him. Curious.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 4:38 pm
Posts: 386
Matter of fact beautifulmess....
You have only posted these negative things telling others what they do wrong or what they should be doing....even that they will fort sure relapse in a months time if they continue doing what you see as wrong...
So. Who really needs to look at their motives? Just an observation....of all your posts.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:49 pm 
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6 Months or More
6 Months or More
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Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:10 pm
Posts: 231
Location: pacific nw
I think Beautiful Mind made some good points

If The New Guy really wants to not be dependent on a daily medication h/she needs to taper and quit no matter how bad the withdrawal symptoms get.

If New Guys life has improved on 2mg of daily sub then h/she needs to go to a doctor and get a script.

It sounds like New Guy needs to make a decision and stick with it. We dont have a magic taper for new guy to get out of this painlessly.

If I was new guy, I would quit feeling guilty about taking a daily medication that is improving his life, go to the doctor, and get a script. Then I would attempt to learn some coping skills and get some support.

New Guy will continue to live in mental chaos until s/he quits lying to family/friends and quits buying sub illegally.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:40 am 
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Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 4:38 pm
Posts: 386
That. I can agree with. Taking subs illegally and lying about taking that is no good for your recovery. Honesty will set you free.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:44 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:01 pm
Posts: 43
I didnt say I know whats best for him.. Everything I said, I made very clear was only MY OPINION/EXPERIENCE.. I didnt say what he felt like on subs, he did.. I just quoted it. The feelings he said he has on sub are basically the reasons I hear people saying they take opiates for.. For a few years I only read on this forum, I only joined because I felt alot of false info was being passed to others about sub and treatment.. I didnt join to get into debates with others because they dont like what I post, I make it very clear to the OP that what im posting is my opinion or based on my knowledge.. If you dont like what I post then by all means DONT READ IT.. go on and post your own advice to the OP. I didnt see you post a single thing to this guy to help him but you were very quick to make sure you posted when you didnt like what I said. Its also a little bit weird that you would go look at everything ive ever posted.. I said one thing you didnt like and you gotta investigate me?? Nothing I post or have posted is negative.. I just voice my opinion where I see fit and once again I make it very clear that its only MY OPINION. This site is not for debating/arguing about what everyone thinks.. no one is 100% right and never will be, not even doctors and if I think a doctor is wrong then I will let that be known also.. Im not gonna change who I am because someone doesnt like it. Im sorry if you didnt like what I had to say but I feel the OP will now really look at what he's doing based on ALL the replies he got. Please dont read my posts if they offend you in any way, shape or form, I will not however debate anything with you or answer to you about anything, im entitled to what I think/feel and so are you.


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Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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