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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:36 am 
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Also I wanted to say to MovieMaker.. most of the posts that I have seen from you around the forum are you trying to debate with other people about the advice they are giving to the OP.. maybe you should take a step back and see why you are a member of this forum.. is it to actually help and support people or to just argue with other members about what they have to say? Again im not gonna argue with you about anything, I just think that you should take a look at yourself before having anything bad to say about or to someone else.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:38 pm 
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Still never answered why you are on suboxone. Keep up the good work...with your hurtful to recovery opinions....

I jumped in without saying anything to this guy because I was amazed at how bad you treated him. You say its all your opinion....but when you put certainty on it....I don't think its helpful.

I will continue to argue these bogus posts that are from forum doctors like yourself and others that cheer sick addicts off of suboxone.
It is truly sad how much this forum has changed and how little respect people have for the doc and recovery.

I.hope you continue to help people with their misinformation problems though...seems like a very positive helping hand.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:45 pm 
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Telling someone they shouldn't be on suboxone because it doesn't meet your opinionated requirements...or telling someone their withdrawal isn't real....or that they are going to relapse in exactly one months time.....do these things sound like facts or opinons? Are you a doctor? How are you so sure? In the end...why not just be positive instead of being so nasty and apologizing before even posting?

Again. I will continue to help the newcomer. Not the people trying to hurt them.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:16 pm 
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Amy, what I am about to say is meant in kindness, so please don't read in any sarcasm that is not intended:

Probably the two most difficult aspects of opiate addiction are the painful withdrawal, and worse, living life on life's terms WITHOUT opiates once we stop. Suboxone withdrawal BEGINS at 2 mg so if I understand what you wrote, you have not been through full out opiate WD yet. And you said you transitioned straight from painkillers to Sub, so you haven't experienced abstainance yet. So, the battle is about to begin for you. You really can't say yet whether the choice to have gone the Suboxone route was best. You may go through what I did and end up craving Suboxone when you go off like some people crave their DOC. I hope you don't. You have done a lot of therapy and work on yourself in this process, so I hope the result is that you transition to abstainance successfully. But if your life were a novel in English lit clas, you haven't been through the conflict and resolution, yet. (*joking* you're in college right?). I'm not sure how transferable your experience is to someone who decided to self treat with Sub, but I do see the point you were making.

Just my $.02.
I wish BOTH of you continued sucess in your recoveries.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:48 pm 
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Jeez, MovieMaker - I was commenting on Amy's post and then I went back and finished reading the thread and... Wow. I have read many of your posts and I know you and I share a common experience - going off of Sub and relapsing and then going back on maintenance. I was inclined to agree with your original assertion, that maybe people shouldn't be in such a rush to get off Sub, or be so focused on getting off from day one.
But I just don't see why you overreacting so strongly to BM. To me her point was well taken. Sub is a powerful drug and I think we do a disservice to NOT suggest other recovery options to people before going straight to Sub maintenance. She framed it in a respectful way, and prefaced by saying it was only HER experience. And you reply by heaping sarcasm upon sarcasm and worse, accusing her of saying things she didn't even say. I just don't get it, and more importantly, I don't see how it helps the OP. What would help the OP would be if you have an opposing viewpoint, share it. Then the OP can weigh all sides of the issue and make the best decision.

To New Guy - I'm sorry I've posted so much and not responded to you directly. From what you have said your life has seen a huge turn around since you've been on Sub. It sounds like you feel good on it and are not having side effects. Maybe the worst part is the guilt? You seem to be very concerned about what people would "think" if they knew. This should be the least of your worries. If you can get to a doc and explain your history like orange doll said, you can get a legal script and get rid of the guilt. Then if you still want to taper you can take it from there. Keep it between you and your doc. Only share what you want with the people you love and trust the most.
Good luck


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:21 pm 
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If you tell someone they dont qualify for suboxone or their wd is fake or that they just take it to get high....you can't know this......but this implies that she knows best.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:59 pm 
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MovieMaker1 wrote:
If you tell someone they dont qualify for suboxone or their wd is fake or that they just take it to get high....you can't know this......but this implies that she knows best.


I don't think MB meant to imply that OP's wds are fake. But the truth of the matter, is when you are tapering and until you actually jump off, the biggest hurdles are mental. I wasn't really sick until I stopped taking suboxone. It was my mind -and mostly fear- playing tricks on me up until that point. It doesn't make it any less real but I think it's helpful to point it out because I didn't know at the time that what I was experiencing was mostly (not all) in my head. The anxiety of tapering brings what feels like physical wds.. Once you can understand that and recognize it, I believe it is a little easier to taper. I realized this towards the end of my taper when I would ride out the anxiety and my symptoms would lessen.

No one is telling anyone to get off suboxone but when someone expresses the desire to quit and learn how to live a life free from maintenance, we try to offer helpful advice and encouragement because everyone deserves that no matter where they are in their journey/ recovery.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:41 am 
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If a person uses Vicodin for a year then oxys for a month then dilaudid for a month then methadone for a month---- thinking each time that THIS TIME will be different.... But it always turns out the same... Then he does Suboxone for a month... What, exactly, are people expecting to happen?

New guy-- do NOT make the mistake of thinking that there are a bunch of people here who are almost done tapering off Suboxone. There is too much lying with the industry, than to build this forum on lies.

Tapering off Suboxone is very difficult. Those who do taper off usually end back on opioids. According to two major studies this year, people on Suboxone one month who tapered off Suboxone had a 96% one-yr relapse rate. People on it for a year, after tapering, had a 94% one-yr relapse rate.

People in the US are dependent on meds to treat many more minor conditions; nobody thinks less of the dependent on meds for high blood pressure.

You'll find varying opinions here---- but remember that many people still taking Suboxone somehow considers themselves experts in living without it.... And few of the boasters of sobriety have been off everything for 6 months--- let alone a few years! Know your own truth.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:30 am 
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Lillyval wrote:
Amy, what I am about to say is meant in kindness, so please don't read in any sarcasm that is not intended:

Probably the two most difficult aspects of opiate addiction are the painful withdrawal, and worse, living life on life's terms WITHOUT opiates once we stop. Suboxone withdrawal BEGINS at 2 mg so if I understand what you wrote, you have not been through full out opiate WD yet. And you said you transitioned straight from painkillers to Sub, so you haven't experienced abstainance yet. So, the battle is about to begin for you. You really can't say yet whether the choice to have gone the Suboxone route was best. You may go through what I did and end up craving Suboxone when you go off like some people crave their DOC. I hope you don't. You have done a lot of therapy and work on yourself in this process, so I hope the result is that you transition to abstainance successfully. But if your life were a novel in English lit clas, you haven't been through the conflict and resolution, yet. (*joking* you're in college right?). I'm not sure how transferable your experience is to someone who decided to self treat with Sub, but I do see the point you were making.

Just my $.02.
I wish BOTH of you continued sucess in your recoveries.


Lilly, I appreciate your response and I don't take offense to it at all. :)

I realize that there are aspects of opiate addiction that I have not yet experienced. I can only talk about my experience up to this point, and that's all I've tried to do. But what if I never end up going off sub? Would that mean that I couldn't say whether it was best for me to have gone on suboxone when I did, just because I never tried being abstinent? I don't see how it could be considered a bad thing not to have gone through the cycle of relapse and recovery several times. I can say that I believe that it was better for me to have gone straight on suboxone than to try and fail, try and fail. Now I know that suboxone works for me, so when/if I do taper off it, I have an alternative to a full-blown relapse. I know I can go back on a low level of suboxone rather than lose everything in a relapse. If I start having severe cravings I have no problem going back on sub. I won't look at it as a failure because I know what I'm up against with this disease. The only reason I'm going to try abstinence in the first place is to see if I can do it. I'd rather not pay the extra costs associated with sub, and I am also a bit nervous about what would happen if I were in an accident and couldn't obtain adequate pain relief.

So far I have avoided damaging my family, my friendships, my health, our finances, and I've never been in legal trouble. I have NEVER and WILL NEVER think that makes me better than any other addict! In fact, as you've pointed out, it makes me a less experienced addict. I very much respect the opinions of more experienced addicts, but I think my opinions are valid too.

And I think I can say with confidence that my choice to go on suboxone when I did was the right choice for me. And I reject the assertion by Beautiful Mess that one HAS to go through all other options before starting on sub. That was really my only point.

Dr. J, I don't assert that I'm almost done tapering off sub. It's taken me nearly a year to taper from 16 mg to 2.5 mg. I know I have a long way to go too. But I am being completely truthful and I will continue to do so.

Amy

P.S. Lilly, I'm not officially in college. :) I have a BA in History from my first round of college in the early 1990s. I am going to be taking more classes to become an addiction counselor though.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:32 am 
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Thank you to everyone that saw where I was coming from with my posts, I honestly meant no harm to anyone. :)

MovieMaker-
Once again, I will not debate anything with you and I do not need to answer to you (ie why I take sub). I never told anyone I was a doctor so I dont know why you keep saying that. Theres many other sub forums where they argue back and forth all day, maybe one of those forums would be better suited to you? I am not the first member of this forum that I have seen you blow up on, in fact im only one of many.. I believe I just read a post from Dr. J speaking about this exact thing and he said he had to ban a member recently for doing just what you are. We are here to help and support eachother, give our advice, good or bad to those who seek it. I believe in long term sub use but will still support those who choose only short term, I rarely post anything as a fact, just my opinion/experience/knowledge. I am not here to argue or debate with anyone.. nobody is exactly alike and not everybody will feel the same about things and I respect that. This is the last time I will respond to you as me and you are obviously not here for the same reasons and have nothing more to talk about.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:35 pm 
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suboxdoc wrote:
If a person uses Vicodin for a year then oxys for a month then dilaudid for a month then methadone for a month---- thinking each time that THIS TIME will be different.... But it always turns out the same... Then he does Suboxone for a month... What, exactly, are people expecting to happen?

New guy-- do NOT make the mistake of thinking that there are a bunch of people here who are almost done tapering off Suboxone. There is too much lying with the industry, than to build this forum on lies.

Tapering off Suboxone is very difficult. Those who do taper off usually end back on opioids. According to two major studies this year, people on Suboxone one month who tapered off Suboxone had a 96% one-yr relapse rate. People on it for a year, after tapering, had a 94% one-yr relapse rate.

People in the US are dependent on meds to treat many more minor conditions; nobody thinks less of the dependent on meds for high blood pressure.

You'll find varying opinions here---- but remember that many people still taking Suboxone somehow considers themselves experts in living without it.... And few of the boasters of sobriety have been off everything for 6 months--- let alone a few years! Know your own truth.



Great post. Finally found it.

Please read this entire thread if you have a second. It's worth it.


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