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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:19 am 
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She is on day 7 of her jump. She is starting to have very bad with drawls. She is crying like crazy and feels like she is going nuts. Her anxiousness and panic level are through the roof. She keeps telling me she is going to have a nervous break down. I can't get her to exercise, but I do have her on some supplements like branch chained amino acids, fish oil, L-arginine, and CoQ10. Sleep aids do not work on her. She could not sleep much before the jump and now she really can't sleep. Fishing is her favorite hobby. She went to a local pond for maybe an hour today and had to come home. I knew something was up when she came home so soon. Just observing her she is definitely restless, she keeps scratching herself, and keeps saying she can't handle this and wants to go to the emergency room. What could they do? I'm afraid they would turn her away. What else can I do to help her?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:45 am 
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When you say she's on day 7 of her "jump" do you mean she jumped off Suboxone? Just want to be clear so I can respond properly


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:03 am 
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Yes.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:56 am 
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Hi Js and welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear that your wife is struggling. Can you please share with us what dose of Suboxone she jumped from? I'm guessing that maybe she jumped from a dose high enough to cause most of the symptoms she is having.

Suboxone has a very long half life which means it can linger in her system for several days. And the withdrawals can also take a while if the dose she was last on and jumped from was high enough as I said. That may explain why she is beginning to feel the way she is right now.

Tell us how long she has been on the Suboxone?
What was her highest dose?
And what dose she jumped from?
This will give us the necessary info to provide you with the best response.

I myself was on 24mgs for almost 3 years. I reduced my dose down to 2mgs and tried to jump from there as I wanted off the sub so bad. I couldn't do it. I had almost the same exact symptoms as your wife does. That's why I am thinking maybe her dose was too high when she made that final jump.

I had to get back on the 2mg and begin to reduce my dose even lower. I'm now down to 1.50mg and it's working out ok for me now.

Tell her to hang in there and you try to relax if that's possible. I know it can be very scary for both of you. I'm no sub expert, but do have lots of experience with this drug. Others should be here at some point and hopefully give you additional answers.

I wish you both the very best.

Karen
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:01 pm 
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Kava is an OTC supplement.(avail at Walgreens, SOME CVS) Helped me a little bit with anxiety although the effects wear of pretty quick. I noticed it didn't work too well for me the second day but the first day worked pretty well. I have to admit though I probably took 10 capsules before I felt any relief.

It works on the same receptors as most benzos I think which is why it didn't work so well for me. Even though I rarely take benzos (like maybe 5-6 times my entire life) massively high doses do nothing for me. I don't even get drowsy. But it's supposed to be stronger than valerian so it might be worth a shot.

It's amazing what ONE day of relief can do. For me it pretty much resets everything. Just have to try not to dwell on the past. One day of relief makes the past just a memory.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:07 pm 
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Thanks for the welcome! I have been a lurker for the past year, as I knew this day was coming. This past February she was was at 32 mg/3 strips per day for a year and a half; 24 mg for 3 years before that. She tapered all the way to 1 mg. Last Friday she had enough and off she went. The first 5 days she really felt fine. She could not sleep much and had some mild restlessness. Last night the anxiety and restless leg hit her like a ton of bricks. I called her GP and he said take her to the E.R. to help ease the symptoms. They gave her 2 mg of Ativan and something for a headache from all the crying. Well 2 hours went by and she had a 10 minute relief and it started again. Well finally the doctor gave her a shot of geodon to make her sleep. Well she felt good for a few then the geodon side effects kicked in.
Guess what they are? Yes, they cause restlessness, tremors etc. Oh great! It was worse than we went in. They gave her some benadryl and I walked her around the hospital. She was fine as long as she was on her feet but as soon as she sat down it would start back up. They said there was nothing else they could do try to get her home. We made it home and she took a couple minute walk and actually ate something then slept for about 3 hours. Finally some progress. I woke up an hour ago to a completely different person! She said she has eaten again and even took another nap. She is on the phone talking to her dad walking around like nothing has ever happened. Does everyone have just one super crazy bad day, or could there be more like this? I really thought we were better prepared but she did jump earlier than expected too. Did those 3 hours of sleep and her little nap really recharge her? Any other supplements to use or avoid? I have a ton of supps, as I am a health nut, avid gym goer. I do not want to give her anything that could trigger anything.
Kava? I will definitely check that out, thank you! Thank you both! This process is definitely tough and I do not envy anyone that has to go through it or something worse.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:22 pm 
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From what I've heard, there is usually a peak day or two of withdrawals then things slowly improve over the next few weeks. It's not unusual to be doing well a couple of days and then have a bad day here and there as well.

One of the medications that can help with withdrawals is clonidine. It is usually a blood pressure medication, but is often used off-label for opiate withdrawals. It can help with the RLS and lack of sleep. Has your wife tried massage therapy for help with the restless symptoms? You could do this yourself. It might give her some temporary relief when she goes through a bad patch.

I hope your wife has already reached the peak of her withdrawals. It's difficult to go through withdrawal, but people have done it. You sound like a supportive spouse, and I hope you both have a plan to help your wife stay away from opiates. Withdrawal is only a small part of a life long battle against addiction. If suboxone wasn't working for her, I hope she finds something that will.

Amy

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:46 pm 
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When we go see her gp on Monday we are going to ask about clonidine. Her problem started years ago with a back problem. They did not want to do back surgery on such a young person so they sent her to pain management. Well long story short she wanted off the stuff and the doctor said ah we have this miracle drug suboxone. So over the years the pain never went away and finally they said ok we will do surgery since nothing is helping. She had a compressed nerve from a herniated disk causing her to barely move her left leg. She is totally fine no pain no problems with her back or leg, nothing at all! This could have all been avoided if they had done the surgery years ago.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:30 pm 
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I really don't want to give you any bad advice and I have no experience in trying to get off Suboxone/Subutex so I will share this information with you with that caveat. My son recently went in-patient for Subutex detox. He was in-patient for 30 days. and they started with a rapid taper over the first 10 days. I believe he was down to 16mg per day when he went in. Clonidine WAS one of the drugs they used after the rapid taper, along with a muscle relaxer and an unusual high dose of a drug called Neurontin, and Ativan. The Ativan was tapered and then discontinued before he was released. After he left the facility he continued the muscle relaxer (I can't remember the name of it) and the Neurontin. He discontinued the muscle relaxer within the inital 30-day period after leaving the facility but when he went to his primary care doctor to obtain a refill on the Neurontin the doctor freaked at the dose. He cut it more than 1/2 and during the ensuing 30 day period he has taken it less and less frequently but still is experiencing some "secondary" withdrawal symptoms 60 days post release. I don't know if this info is helpful...but I am sending positive thoughts your way. Thanks for being the kind of guy that stands by his gal during her tough period.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:44 pm 
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Hi Js90lx,

Welcome to the forum!!!

To me, it sounds like your wife precipitated wd somehow? Suboxone wd usually intensifies gradually, it's fairly out of the ordinary for it to all of a sudden hit like a ton of bricks, then for it to get better so quickly.....again, very out of the ordinary.

When I was detoxing from Suboxone, I thought it would be a good idea to try a couple of my wife's Lexapro.....bad idea!!! Less than an hour after taking them, my wd intensified ridiculously. I knew I messed up by taking the Lexapro, so I just rode it out. If I remember correctly, that episode lasted a few hours.

A couple of weeks later, I tried some Tylenol PM (with Diphenhydramine) to help me sleep. For some reason, the Diphenhydramine drove me nuts. It made my wd symptoms worse and it increased my RLS to where it felt like I had plugged my legs into an electrical socket. Again, the symptoms lasted a few hours, then got better.

So, I'm wondering if something she took caused her symptoms to increase greatly? I'd review the meds and supplements she took that day and try figure out if any of those may have caused her issue.

BTW, I'm an avid gym goer, too. Did you mention you gave her L-Arginine? I'm not so sure L-Arginine would be good for someone in wd?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:50 am 
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That's really weird to hit like that and get better. It does sound like precip. Wd as Romeo said, but usually afterwards I'm still not feeling to hot ( I put myself thru that too many times with high-quality heroin. I waited until I felt I was In moderate wd before I took subs. I guess it wasn't enough time)

But after I usually feel exhausted/ generally crappy..

Sleep does help tremendously. When I catch a decent nights sleep (4-5hrs ) it kind of resets me a bit. I notice its then a mental game for a few days or until I get decent sleep again. I hope things are still getting better and hope someone with more experience and knowledge of what to do/what's going on can chime in as well...


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