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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:14 am 
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Hello everyone.

I've been addicted to (mostly prescription) opioids/opiates for about 5 or 6 years now. I've read a few posts made by those with addictions that have lasted decades, but since I'm only 23 6 years feels plenty long to me. Most recently the last year I've been a daily, often hourly user of morphine intravenously. Occasionally heroin when it came along, once or twice. Before that it was whatever oxy/hydrocodone I could get my hands on.

I'm on my second day of Suboxone treatment and, all things considered, doing pretty well. I'm incredibly lucky in that I have parents who I've yet to completely alienate that are currently providing health insurance and copays and a place to stay while I'm in recovery. They've allowed me to quit my incredibly stressful job, not that I would have still had one after the necessary time off for withdrawal-induction-stabilization to occur anyway.

Maybe one day I'll lay it all out on here in an effort to work through the issues that drove me to numbing and euphoric drugs, but not right off the bat. My doctor tells me that in the near future group therapy will be a non-optional part of my recovery. Seeing as how social anxiety is one of those issues, I'm a little afraid of going to a session and spilling my guts to strangers. I'm more afraid that I won't be able to and it will end my treatment. I guess we'll see. We'll see about a lot of things.

Just a minute ago passed 12 hours since my 2mg dose of Suboxone this morning and I'm definitely feeling like one dose per day as ordered by my doctor is not enough. Feeling like in a few hours or tomorrow morning before dosing I'll be at the consequences-be-damned state and willing to do whatever it takes to get high. I have 2 more strips that he prescribed for me, but I'm under strict orders not to take any outside of the office for any reason or, again, my treatment can be terminated. Earlier I told my parents to hang on to them. I really hope my doc will allow me a second dose per day because I'm going to be at serious relapse risk, not to mention completely non-functional when it comes to life in general.

I'm curious, is one dose per day normal for Suboxone? Do most people take at least two or more? Am I just used to more euphoria than this and I should just sack up and learn to live with feeling relatively like shit every day? Is this too long for a first post?

At least I can answer that last question with "Yes, probably." At least it'll be harder to lurk and silently disappear now that I've posted. If you read all of this, thanks so much for hearing me out, and I hope you have a better night than I'm about to.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:49 am 
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Hi, and welcome to the forums. You should find plenty of people that are willing to help an and answer any concerns you may have. I will try to provide some of the limited knowledge I have as well as some advice that I have seen on these forums.

Many people dose twice a day but your still getting used to it. Give it time. You don't want to get in the habit of using when you feel you need to, that's what got us all in this mess. Subs won't produce euphoria, but once you start to stabilize and your body gets used to the level of stimulation the subs provide you will feel "normal" , being no WDs and no cravings. After a week or so you should start to see an improvement over how you feel after dosing. If after a week you aren't feeling well enough, talk with your doctor about increasing your dose but generally speaking the lower the dose you can be on the better. Less chance for the reactions that some have such as jitters or trouble sleeping.

Keep up with your routine and give it a bit of time and you should feel a bit better every day.

Give it a bit more time, you'll see and if not, be honest with your doctor. It is not unheard of to dose multiple times per day.

Just a thought: Have you tried to break your dose up? Try dosing 1MG twice a day? You might be surprised. Suboxone has a LONG half-life. At that dosing you wouldn't be going over the amount your doctor has prescribed. Also make sure you are letting it sit under your tongue for at least 10 min. I know when i first started I didn't let them sit as long as they should have and I don't think I absorbed enough of the medicine. Anything you swallow is essentially lost as your liver will break it down in the first pass.

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" Each relapse starts with one thought— maybe, just maybe, this time will be different… that little thought has killed thousands and thousands of opiate addicts over the years."
- Dr Jeffery Junig (Subox Doc)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:20 pm 
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2 mg once a day? wow i'm sorry but I work in a doctor's office that prescribes suboxone and am on it myself and the usual is at least 8 mg TWICE a day. Yeah if I were you I would talk to your doc about that. You want to be comfortable and not be craving and in withdrawal. That's the whole point. Where are you at anyways? Just curious. I'm in New Mexico. Maybe things are different here???


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:42 pm 
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Wow, agreed. 2mg once per day as an induction dose is VERY low. I have never heard of a doctor inducing at less than 8mg per day unless there are some extenuating circumstances.

I would say that you really need to try to follow the doctors orders for the next couple of days to prevent you from getting in trouble. But, I would definitely request that your dose be increased. That's just crazy!

Maybe you should even call the doctor and tell them that the 2mg dose is just NOT taking care of your wd. The suboxone is meant to be taken at a high enough dose to cover all your WD symptoms and take away cravings. He is just setting you up for failure if he doesn't allow you enough to do that.

Hang in there Airhead! LOL....I LOVE your username! :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:42 pm 
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Thanks for the advice and well wishes everyone!

Last night and this morning weren't as terrible as I feared but I was definitely wanting more and the cravings were bad. Luckily my doc listened and upped me to 2mg twice a day which definitely feels like enough. Feels like I'm more or less at the ceiling most of the day. For the weekend his office is closed so I can just take them by myself instead of having to drive there and do it, which is nice.

pinupgirl666 wrote:
2 mg once a day? wow i'm sorry but I work in a doctor's office that prescribes suboxone and am on it myself and the usual is at least 8 mg TWICE a day. Yeah if I were you I would talk to your doc about that. You want to be comfortable and not be craving and in withdrawal. That's the whole point. Where are you at anyways? Just curious. I'm in New Mexico. Maybe things are different here???


I'm in Arizona - we're not far apart! I found myself wondering if the employee at the front desk has or had any related problems, it's interesting to hear that you work in an office and you're a patient at the same time. She was certainly sympathetic when I came in withdrawing like crazy the first day and then spent close to an hour filling out paperwork and waiting.

That day my doc told me I would have to wait until the next morning to do my first dose because it was almost time for them to close and it would take too long for me to get to a pharmacy and back to take it. And I thought waiting for flaky dealers could be a pain! I just about lost it right then, a day is an eternity in that state. Thankfully I have the best mom in the world and she was able to miraculously get the Suboxone and get us back to the office just in time. He was at least not heartless enough to turn me away then. His initial directions seem to be just barely on wrong side of what I feel I need so far, but he is willing to listen and make changes so I think I'll be ok. Jury's still out on the group counselling, he feels that if social anxiety is one of the driving forces behind my desire for opiates to cope, I need to do group therapy to try and work on it. It's something I've had since I was a toddler so I'm not optimistic, but I've certainly done worse things to keep the drugs flowing.

Just gotta take it a day at a time. Thanks again for the support, I hope you're all doing well.

edit: Just thought I'd add that it's 70F and sunny here to make you all jealous. What's winter?

Don't worry, I'll whine pretty hard once it's 115 again to make up for it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:12 pm 
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that's cool I went to rehab in arizona! In chandler! Man oh man was it hot!!! Lol.
But yeah i'm not a patient at the clinic I work but it is helpful to the patients to have some people that know what they're going through. My dad runs the place and he is also recovering, so we know what they are going through. It feels good to be able to help other people who are in the same bucket as me. I never thought I would help myself, much less someone else! Well I'm glad your doc decided to up your dose. Maybe he could get you up to 8mg? I think it would help you a lot. What were you using? Sorry if you already posted that.....


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:13 pm 
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btw I used to have REALLY bad social anxiety and I still kinda do but it's much much better. I used to hate groups too but I had to really push myself to get over that fear and you will too!! :D


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:36 pm 
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I mostly did oxycodone or hydrocodone orally or insufflated starting in high school and for a few years, but the last year I've been injecting morphine many times a day.

It's heartening that you understand a bit about the social part. As a kid I often just didn't do group assignments in school and had to make up for it for high test scores. Speaking in front of class? Forget about it. I don't feel that I have asperger's or anything, I just find most social interaction involving groups intensely unpleasant. The opiates let me relax and feel that I can function in such situations - and as a result I can function in such situations. For the last three years I've worked with the general public and for the last year I have even been a manager of other computer technicians like myself. Trouble is, I had to put morphine in my arm to do it. A couple panic attacks when trying to work sober cemented that in my brain.

At the risk of being too specific, I'm also coincidentally in Chandler. Funny how small the internet can make the world feel.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:39 pm 
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wow cool! Lol I was just gonna ask where in AZ. Haha have you heard of Chandler Valley Hope? That's where I went. At least that's what it was called back then. I had BAD social anxiety at my stay there and most of the therapy was group! I could barely stand it. On top of the social anxiety there was also the anxiety that coming off opiates bring so it was just bad bad. Time and medication has made things easier for me. Have you tried an anti-depressant? I'm on Lexapro and it does wonders for anxiety!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:08 pm 
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Im in arizona as well, phoenix-metro area. Just chiming in because I saw arizona being brought up! :)


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:39 pm 
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pinupgirl666 wrote:
wow cool! Lol I was just gonna ask where in AZ. Haha have you heard of Chandler Valley Hope? That's where I went. At least that's what it was called back then. I had BAD social anxiety at my stay there and most of the therapy was group! I could barely stand it. On top of the social anxiety there was also the anxiety that coming off opiates bring so it was just bad bad. Time and medication has made things easier for me. Have you tried an anti-depressant? I'm on Lexapro and it does wonders for anxiety!


I haven't tried an antidepressants as such, though I have sampled Xanax which just sent me straight to bed and would make work harder rather than easier. I've mostly been afraid of taking weeks/months to find the right antidepressant and having unpredictable moods in the meantime. Living on my own and finding it already hard to cope with work made that possibility very unattractive. Besides, I had my cure-all opiates, why mess with what's working? It's tricky because the opiates calm my nerves and put up a magical barrier between me and everyone else which is more comfortable, but at the same time they make me feel good enough that I am much more active and feel stimulated. Most single drugs don't have both seemingly opposed effects.

Now that I have a support structure that doesn't depend on my daily competence being too high I'd be willing to give it a go if my doctor thinks it would be of benefit. I gotta say though, I am feeling 90% OK on the sub right now, and a little better each day. 2mg twice a day feels just perfect.

Mikey25 wrote:
Im in arizona as well, phoenix-metro area. Just chiming in because I saw arizona being brought up! :)


Hey Arizona bro! Now I'll have someone to commiserate with when summer rolls back around.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:31 am 
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Haha, no doubt. Gotta love having the sun strapped to your back and feeling as if you have a blanket made from lava! But for now, let us embrace our 60 - 70° weather !! :)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:33 pm 
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Hey sorry I was gone all weekend, so I'm a little late on responding. Anyway I would ask your doc about an anti-depressant, it does wonders for me! But what may work for me, may not work for you so I don't know. But it's worth a try right? Anyway I'm glad that you have found a dose that works for you (on the sub). And good luck on group!!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:32 am 
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Hello. Welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear that you are still not feeling so well. I hope your doctor will be more willing to increase your dose. I was inducted at 16 mg a day and have remained at that dose for almost 14 months now. Hang In there. It may take a couple days but even if he does not agree to increase your dose it is possible to stabilize at 2 mg from what I have read from others posts. I also think you may be surprised by the group sessions that you're going to have to attend. I get very nervous in these type of situations as well, but being around others that have gone through what I have makes me feel welcome and much more at ease. I too was reluctant to attend the groups but they became somewhat like a social gathering. I hope you continue to post. Please let us know if you are beginning to stabilize. Congratulations on your choice to enter recovery.
CRYS


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:49 am 
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I really thought the purpose of suboxone was that we addicts could get a prescription for them and take them at home? Sounds like your doc has a strong hold on you. I thought mine was bad because the first few months he made me come back every week and then every two weeks. Now I got monthly anyway and I also agree that 2 mg is a very low dose to start out on. I started on 16mg. Now I take 12mg per day. I understand what your feelings were like at first though because yes the euphoria was all gone. I still miss it sometimes but the subs help me not think about it. Anyway, I'm glad you only had to suffer for 6 years some of us were out there like you said for decades. I am glad your family has stood by you and helped you through this too. My family stands by me too but they don't completely understand...they ask why we go to this doctor if we can't do the things we want to do (like smoke pot) ...this is coming from my in laws who smoke pot all day. My mom totally understands the importance of it all. She remembers what it was like for me to be out there... I would steal her medication so she would run out even though she had saved some up so she had extras when she needed them. It's pretty bad when you are stealing a disabled persons medication...I'm glad I got help anyway so I don't have to do that anymore.

Anyway thanks for sharing your story. Keep up the good work.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:02 pm 
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Hi! So proud of you for making a decision to change your life. Okay so this is actually only day 4 for me on Subs. I was on oxy's and then heroin, both of them up my nose. Anyway, my doctor has me on two doses of 8mg strip per day. I take 8mg in the morning and another 8mg dose 12 hours later. I don't feel any withdrawl besides a really fucking runny nose (please dont tell me to go catch it!) and I toss and turn at night but that is probably because I google random shit like "how long does it take for your nose to stop running when coming off of opiates."

Anyway, yeah my dr. has me on 2 doses of 8mg a day.
Is this normal lol?

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:07 pm 
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I am a fellowship trained Addiction Psychiatrist new to the Phoenix area. I did my residency and fellowship in Boston. I will be opening a clinic at the end of this year (2014) in the East Valley area of Phoenix called 2nd Chance Treatment. It will be an insurance-based addiction clinic offering treatment for opioid and alcohol addictions with use of Suboxone and Vivitrol. I can also treat co-occurring psychiatric disorders in addition to prescribe Suboxone and Vivitrol. I have over 3 years of experience in managing Suboxone patients. 2nd Chance will be accepting most commercial insurances and Medicare. There will also be a self-pay option. Please write me a message if you want more information. I'm looking forward to providing evidence-based addiction treatment to the Phoenix area.


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