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 Post subject: weird sub joint pain
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:31 pm 
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so i'm on buprenorphine\Nolaxone (three 2mg, I take 2 right when I get up, then any where from 7:30am/11:00am then around 3:00 I take my last one)

About 4years a go I had gotten off sub after using it 2 get off methadone, fun thing about methadone is it truly destroyed me. I lasted 1year until I started taking t3's then up the chain until I got back on the sub, truly just 4 pain management. it's been around 3months and now my elbows and wrists are popping and cracking when I straighten my arms. is the weirdest feeling ever (it's hard 2 explain) my joints feel sick and chemicly drenched. I understand pain and joint pain this is different, sure it still hurts but it's like there getting lazy or sick. I have a hard time holding my cell phone my arm joints get tired and like withdrawal I feel the need 2 straighten my arms and strech all the time.

JUST LOOKING 4 THE RIGHT vitamins or supplements or something 2 get rid of the feeling.

OK getting off is not an option, I can't hold a job with out my meds.


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 Post subject: Re: weird sub joint pain
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:05 pm 
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Hi Soul...

I think there's some psychosomatic component to all your symptoms. I recognize these things..on the assumption I'm correct... because I'm prone to them myself.

Descriptions like "my joints feel sick and chemically drenched," while I admire your nice, descriptive
writing, are indication that there's some mind-body stuff going on.

Please don't misunderstand, this is not to say your pain isn't real. Perceived pain is real pain. But the approach to treating is different. There's really no supplement or vitamin for joints that feel sick, or arms
that get tired when holding a cell phone. I don't know about the cracking joints, but I suspect it's just something you've had...I do...and just weren't noticing.

The treatment for this kind thing is simple and effective, though not necessarily easy. You have to stop worrying about it.Fear and anxiety are the things that keep this kind of pain alive...

I urge you to get a complete physical work-up, then if/when nothing is found, ask yourself if anxiety
is something that you deal with on a regular basis. If so, you've got an excellent clue as to what's really going on..

Others will likely chime in, perhaps with completely different opinions.

But that's what makes this place fun!!

Best wishes,
Godfrey

x


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 Post subject: Re: weird sub joint pain
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:16 pm 
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wow, that's very almost intuitive of you. I most definitely am full of anxiety, I take paxil not much a half a pill. I have very in depth ptsd.
I think you might have something, I'm a big believer in mind over matter it's brought me 2 places high and low. and yes i'm fairly sure dish and gout run in my family. I have been worried that the pain killers have been masking it 4years.

funny thing is I haven't had a cold or flue in 10 year by sure belief.

I started getting scared about my joints though.


thank-you 4taking the time 2reply.


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 Post subject: Re: weird sub joint pain
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:16 pm 
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Hi again soul...

To tell you the truth I'm relieved you didn't get mad at me. Some people do, as they misunderstand
and think I'm telling them "it's all in their head." Which is not at all what I'm saying.

I've dealt with anxiety issues since I was a little kid. In the 3rd grade I started to get panic attacks. My mother had to come to the school to pick me up as I'd tell the teacher I didn't feel well. I just had no
clue how to deal with it at that age, and lacked the words to try and explain it to my parents...

Now it's many decades later and I still have issues with it. But now I have some tools to deal with it.
I've had psychosomatic symptoms for perhaps 20 years now. I deal with them much better after slowly
coming to the realization that they were just another manifestation of anxiety. Its almost miraculous,
how pain...real pain...sometimes severe pain...can just simply disappear once you become convinced
of it's source.

I also want to say you're obviously a smart, in tune person. As I said above, it's common for people
to get quite defensive. I'm so glad it's something you're willing to consider...

Best to you.
Godfrey


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 Post subject: Re: weird sub joint pain
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:06 pm 
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Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case, the simpler one is usually better. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation is.

cause I tell you I've been through hell and back, The cause and effect of that path has left me somewhat different, much more aware, still broken. God saves.


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 Post subject: Re: weird sub joint pain
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:09 pm 
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LOVE Occam's razor... very closely related to the law of parsimony. I'm always pointing out with patients the odds that they have a very unusual case of Lyme's disease, AND a very unusual type of Crohn's, AND an unusual allergy to naloxone. The goal is to find the ONE thing that explains everything.

I agree with Godfrey. I would also add that whatever you are feeling may have absolutely nothing to do with opioids. I do see symptoms like yours often in patients; a person who describes a buzzing feeling throughout the body, or another who just feels 'less sharp' in a way that no tests can detect, or another who feels like he can't say his own name when he introduces himself, and the more he tries to remember it the harder time he has saying it.

I've had times in my life when I felt like I coudn't get that satisfying feeling when I would yawn... I just couldn't be over the 'hump', so I would drive myself crazy trying. I probably created the problem in a dozen people right now, just by writing about it!

Again, I agree with Godfrey-- and you may feel better with an SSRI that releives anxiety. You may also want to take glucosamine and condroitin, the supplements that some people believe support healthy cartilage.


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 Post subject: Re: weird sub joint pain
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:53 pm 
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ya the buzzing feeling, at time's it truly feels that cell phones are taped everywhere on my body, I know it sounds weird but.

and the name thing I get all the time but not with mine but when im describing someone or something, usually only with in my thought process. I'll try 2 talk about a fridge then shoe or Apple or some other random words pop in 2mind until I picture the fridge better and out comes (fridge)

wow being aware of one's problems I've learned does not always fix them. the way I act sure, thinking and feeling not so much.


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 Post subject: Re: weird sub joint pain
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:37 am 
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As long as we're admitting weird things:

I sometimes feel dizzy, like I'm going to fall over when I'm nervous about something. It's usually in the presence of another person and I feel the need to grab onto something, like the back of a chair, to feel more stable...

Sometimes I fancy I have trouble swallowing. When I noticed it only happened at night, with dinner, that I realized it's all "in my head."

A while back I started to think I was slurring my words a little. The more careful I tried to be, the more it would happen. Finally I just told myself it was a bunch of ridiculous crap and if I could just forget about it , it would go away. Which it did.

I could go on. And on.

Sometimes I think i should be locked up :D


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 Post subject: Re: weird sub joint pain
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:32 am 
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I've been more or less on something since I was 24, with a year off here and there /clean and sober/.

I've been on every kind of anti psychotic under the sun, so I understand brain dis function. finally found the right mix 2 heal my mind and my body starts up again. I'm starting 2 think it's because I use my arms so much during the day(hard work).

any one have crazy dreams on it. wow.


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 Post subject: Re: weird sub joint pain
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:50 am 
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hi there. i had 6 months of extreme joint pain when i quit opiates cold turkey the 1st time and when i started sub treatment.
i was taking large doses of advil and tylenol every day. its way better now, except my one wrist still hurts if i move it one way and it cracks, too!

_________________
Get your shit together and live your life." Black Snake Moan


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 Post subject: Re: weird sub joint pain
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:44 pm 
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ya the first time I quite subs I was messed right up for about 3 months. it took another 6 mouths of uncomfortable feelings in my wrist, ankle, hip, and hands but not as much as the fist 3weeks of getting off. I only lasted awhile then started eating handfuls of advil, then t3's for the next year. after that it just got harder to keep the pain away and I ended back on subs after 3years of ups and downs. I can work now, my mind is clear BUT BACK 2 THE JOINT PAIN while on subs, IDK it's weird.


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 Post subject: Re: weird sub joint pain
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:16 pm 
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Have you tried exercise? Swimming really helps me with this kind of thing.


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 Post subject: Re: weird sub joint pain
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:40 pm 
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ya my GF is trying 2get me 2 start swimming. i ve been told from others that it's a valid way 2deal with body issues.

thanks


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 Post subject: Re: weird sub joint pain
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:47 pm 
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It is great. And if you ask me, better than any medication for psych issues. Also in my experience, if I'm swimming, I'm not using. Obviously we can get chicken and egg with it.

I also take fish oil for the hypochondria. The placebo effect works a treat.


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Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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