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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:07 pm 
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I think im experiencing night terrors and deductively concluded it might be either the Suboxone or my brain healing itself or rebooting from my Suboxone taper. I'm new here and just read of someone else experiencing something similar to this while taking Suboxone. To be honest, it's startled me because this has been happening to me on and off lately.

A little background on me. I've been an avid opiate user since around 2006 starting with Tramadol and then moved to hydro and oxy(condones and morphones). I won't go into great detail, but I started as most people do and then sought help last year. I started Suboxone treatment in July 2013 by an addiction doctor in Louisville, Kentucky. I started off taking 12 mg Suboxone which in retrospect was probably to much since my average daily habit only hovered around 50-70 mg, depending on what was available and what I could afford while I was still using. Then there were the occasional 2-3 days where I couldn't get anything and be in withdrawal. All opiate addicts can relate, I'm sure! The doc adjusted my dose based on what I told him and 12 mg made me feel good. The epitome of addict thinking, huh? Well, I wised up and I am currently weaned down to 4 mg.

I don't remember having had these night terrors before I started taking Suboxone, but since I've been under 8 mg they seem to be happening more often and I can't explain it. Now, I do take multivitamins as well as omega 3&6 fish oils along with some neurotransmitter support amino acids like L-Tyrosine, L-Theanine, and DLPA. I also take some herbs like Rhodiola to help with stress. I also take a couple caffeine pills for energy, since I don't like the taste of coffee. Ever since I dropped below 6 mg Suboxone I am really lethargic and experience low level malaise,on a daily basis, usually unless I take those supplements I listed above. It's like the Suboxone keeps the WD's away, but leaves me feeling empty and unmotivated. If only cocaine were legal......JUST KIDDING! I have good and bad days for sure. I only started taking these other supplements when my doctor had me drop to 4 mg from 6 mg because for 2 weeks I felt like total crap getting adjusted to less Suboxone.

Last night I experienced these night terrors or whatever they are in vivid detail. It's always right before I fall asleep I get this feeling someone or something is in the room with me and then I'll feel the bed move or hear some strange noise and get insane shivers of fear through my body as if a ghost or un-welcome entity is in the room with me. It's really eerie to experience this as I'm a grown man and not a kid. A couple nights ago I was about to slip off to sleep and it felt like a cat ran across the bed. It was like I sort of felt pressure from my comforter on my legs as if something ran across the bed and then it gave me cold chills of fear when I thought about it. It felt as real as my psyche could comprehend it. I opened my eyes and looked around the room with nothing unexpected happening. And, sometimes I get this feeling if I open my eyes that I'll see something immenately fearful, but I always open my eyes anyway because I'm a grown ass man and not supposed to feel whatever it is I'm experiencing. Now, this obviously is in my head because I don't believe in ghosts. Well, I do enjoy watching the TV show "Supernatural", but it's just TV.

I think whatever I'm experiencing is due to the Suboxone since I just read others experiencing similar situations. I can deal with it, but it is a little un-nerving to say the least. And, it's always right before I fall asleep when my muscles are super relaxed and it's almost hard to even move...just prior to falling asleep. I have been experiencing sciatic nerve pain in my legs often causing small muscle flinches, but the other night when it felt like a cat ran across my bed, I don't think that was my leg calf muscles twitching from my sciatica. Oh well, I hope it's just all in my head and will go away when I get off Suboxone....someday soon...hopefully.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:28 pm 
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Hey avinlo, and welcome to our forum!

Yes, many others have had similar night terrors but nailing it down to what exactly is causing them is a problem. You mentioned many other supplements you take for various effects. Why don't you try to stop one of those for several days until the dreams stop. Basically, trial and error on all the substances.

You didn't say when you take your Suboxone. If it is taken at night then it is more likely the suspect. Opiates cause very vivid dreaming when taken close to bedtime. I'm sure you already know that. Have you read the side effects warning on the supplements if there is any? Maybe some Googleing is in order.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Maybe some others will chime in with similar stories and what they did to stop them. If it continues, a discussion with your doctor is in order.

Hope you find some answers,

r

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:14 am 
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rule62 wrote:
Hey avinlo, and welcome to our forum!

Yes, many others have had similar night terrors but nailing it down to what exactly is causing them is a problem. You mentioned many other supplements you take for various effects. Why don't you try to stop one of those for several days until the dreams stop. Basically, trial and error on all the substances.

You didn't say when you take your Suboxone. If it is taken at night then it is more likely the suspect. Opiates cause very vivid dreaming when taken close to bedtime. I'm sure you already know that. Have you read the side effects warning on the supplements if there is any? Maybe some Googleing is in order.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Maybe some others will chime in with similar stories and what they did to stop them. If it continues, a discussion with your doctor is in order.

Hope you find some answers,

r


Yup, exactly what I would have suggested; process of elimination. Also, maybe none after lunchtime if avinlo is taking any of them later in the day. Excepting maybe the theanine, I've never heard of that one giving anybody trouble of that sort, and can help with rest. Of course can't rule anything out, but the theanine I'd put at the bottom of the list with the trial and error, as Rule suggested

Just a hunch, but I would start with the DLPA.

Quote:
In excessive quantities, supplementation can interfere with the production of serotonin and other aromatic amino acids

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylalanine


If serotonin gets screwy, that might have an effect on "vivid dreams" and/or night terrors.

Or at least try lessening the DLPA dose. It is good for replenishing natural endorphins as a precursor, which is why some recovering addicts use it to good effect. Also, switching to just the "D" form (DLPA has both D-Phenylalanine and L-Phenylalanine) is said to help with people who become agitated on DLPA, so that might be the key. Or maybe the keyhole :P *shrugs*

Hope you solve it, avinlo. I've been through that before because a head med I was on once, it was awful, some of the vivid dreams were so bad, they'd haunt me all day.


Last edited by no_boop_shoo_be_doop on Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:18 am 
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Oh one more idea and possible suggestion, if it applies. I don't know if you are a smoker or not, but nicotine can cause some VERY vivid dreams. I know this from using the patch to try to stop smoking, and wearing it through the night. I tried taking it off before bed, and same thing, as the nicotine was still in my tissues entering my blood stream, long after the patch came off. I ended up using nicotine nasal spray instead. That route of administration was great, hit the brain fast to kill a craving, while breaking me of the cigarette ritual. But I digress. If you use any nicotine products, going easy on them in the evening might also help, even if it's not the primary cause.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:40 pm 
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Thanks for the replies guys. I guess I'm quick on the draw to blame Suboxone. Most of the supplements I got help with the weaning process is from the book, The Mood Cure. I forgot to mention taking 5HTP also, in afternoon to help calm me. And, I take melatonin before I go to bed because I have sleep issues, obviously, in more ways than one...lol! Maybe that's a conflict there because serotonin and melatonin are related and I take the strongest melatonin I can find at 5 mg. I do also use nicotine. I mostly use an e-cig now tho. It's supposed to be safer than cigs, but who knows. And, when I bought the DLPA I bought the wrong one. I was after the DPA. I've read DPA helps restore natural endogenous endorphins, so that's the reasoning in using that supp.

Well, I'll try reducing and/or eliminating some supplements starting with the 5HTP. Eliminating the nicotine before bed can be worth a shot also. I think i remember some of these night terrors before I started ALL of the supplements I'm taking now, but I know for sure they weren't as intense as they are now. I guess I'll see how it goes. I'm sure it can't get any worse....or, can it? OMG..hope not.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:38 pm 
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Looks like it's time to call Ghostbuster's, dude!! :)

J/K!!

Do what the guys above suggested.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:46 am 
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Romeo wrote:
Looks like it's time to call Ghostbuster's, dude!! :)


Yeah, it's a very UN-nerving experience and it had me pretty rattled, at 38 years of age.

I guess I can rule out the Suboxone exclusively causing the night terrors. I did read about others having had night terrors while on Suboxone, so that's where I started. I thought maybe it was the low dose. I did also look at some of the supplements I was taking and quit the 5HTP and DLPA in addition to the little, cheap $1.00 Dollar Store brand "5 hour energy" shots I was also taking. Those little energy shots contain B vitamins, N Acetyl Tyrosine, and Phenylalanine which I had forgotten about. I think i was over doing it on the neurotransmitter support amino's as well as the 5HTP for serotonin and melatonin for sleep. Last night was night terror free, yet still lack of quality sleep. Been dealing with excruciating pain from sciatica starting from my left buttock and shooting down my leg ending up around my outer calf and ankle area. It's been bothering me for 2 weeks now, especially through the night while laying down. Anxiety is a culprit as well.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:33 am 
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What you're experiencing is sleep paralysis in a sense, please research it! There are thousands of stories on these so called "paranormal" experiences, when in reality it's usually the meds you're taking. I experienced the exact same thing for MONTHS until I finally figured out it was my Celexa and not an entity creeping around my bed and making noises right before sleep and right before waking up. I know how unpleasant these can be and how paranoid you must feel, but you're on a lot of different things and will just have to unfortunately experiment with eliminating or lowering doses if you want this issue to resolve itself. I promise you're not being haunted :)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:47 pm 
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I don't have night terrors, but can vouch for having "paranormal" like experiences when I am just on the edge of sleep. Sub still makes me nod as well, and that is the prime time for these experiences.
I thought of them as "waking dreams" because I wasn't asleep, but a few seconds of something really bizarre or downright horrifying would flash through my mind. Or I'd think I saw or heard something, almost like hearing voices, but not. I could still recognize it was in my head, but just barely.

I always have this "what the heck was that?" Or "where did that come from?"
Sub is the only med that has ever had this effect on me to this degree.

Once I do fall asleep, my dreams are very stressful, anxious, sometimes nightmarish. I have no doubt it's sub related... Just my .02


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:17 am 
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Ok so I'm entering this conversation a little late but I just wanted to add my experience because the information may help others understand the cause of their symptoms. I am new to buprenorphine treatment, I have only been in treatment for about a month (for the treatment of long term opiate abuse). I am on 20mg of pure buprenorphine daily (which is given in the form of a sublingual pill rather than a flim like suboxone). This medication is basically just the buprenorphine without the addition of naloxone or anything else; and I take all 20mg in the morning when I first get up.

I started noticing that my dreams became more vivid than usual almost immediately after I started taking this medication. over the past month i have noticed that these dreams quickly turned into extremely vivid and frightening nightmares. Mostly involving my 5 month old daughter. It seemed that every night I was having multiple nightmares about my baby girl getting seriously hurt or killed!! These nightmares seemed so real I was waking up in tears multiple times each night, frantically running to my daughter's bed, convinced that something was horribly wrong with her. It didn't take long for these nightmares to turn into the same "waking dream" or "night terror" sort of scenario described by other posters in this forum. I was experiencing half conscious "visions" so to speak of my daughter being hurt or killed during the pre-sleep, or deep relaxation, part of my night. I was also experiencing a sort of paralysis during these "visions" where I could tell myself that it wasn't real and try to force myself awake; but despite my best efforts I was unable to bring myself back to full consciousness. I would have to fall completely asleep before I could completely wake back up and make the dreams/visions stop.

My theory is: that the buprenorphine is causing me to experience vivid scenes of something that I am subconsciously afraid of (and as any parent knows, having your child in serious danger is definitely your worst nightmare). And because this is a "real" fear of mine, I think that is why it has become a reoccurring theme to my dreams/visions. It is simply something that i am, in all reality, actually afraid of, and therefore the buprenorphine is simply bringing it to the forefront of my mind when I am trying to sleep.

The unfortunate news is: I have not found a "cure", so to speak for these dreams/visions. I am still having them on a fairly regular basis. I have been trying to combat them by making a conscious effort throughout the day to eliminate my daughter being in danger as a fear of mine in general by telling myself whenever it comes to mind that my daughter is safe and healthy and nothing bad is going to happen to her and this has seemed to lessen the frequency of the dreams/visions, although it has not helped the severity of them when they do happen.

The fortunate news is: that I feel 95% sure that these dreams/visions ARE being caused by the buprenorphine, because that is the only medication that i have been on the whole time I have been experiencing these nighttime troubles; and the dreams/visions never happened before the buprenorphine; and they started almost immediately after I started the buprenorphine treatment. Also, the fact that the dreams/visions seemed to increase along with the increase of the buprenorphine dosage, seems to me to be further evidence that the buprenorphine is the culprit.

I hope that this information helps others who are experiencing the same problems and if I find anything that helps alleviate the problem I will definitely repost. Good luck to everyone else out there!


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