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Should I detox???
yes 11%  11%  [ 1 ]
no 89%  89%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 9
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:03 pm 
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So first off thank you for taking the time to just look at this, i'm so torn right now, I feel lie im going to lose my mind. i just found out a week ago yesterday that im 7-8 weeks pregnant and i couldnt be happier, but its bittersweet.

I started using oxycontin at age 18, had a beautiful daughter at 19 (which i got clean from the pills easy because it was just a few darvocets here and there) and shes healthy, and has had no issues..
a week after she was born her dad went to prison and was sentenced to 15 years, and i took it pretty hard and gt into heroin.
Soon I was in an abusive relationship and spent everything i owed on the drugs, hit rock bottom and went to detox..
Shortly after being in detox they suggested suboxone therepy.
When i went to the clinic to try and get on it they told me no openings, but had openings for methadone.
Iended up on 300 mgs of methadone a day.
Finally I decided I needed to get my stuff together to be with my daughter and for myself and I went to detox again in october of 2011. It was only a 5 day detox, so the doctor and the facility said in my case I needed suboxone for a few months while the methadone detox was still very alive.
Now fast forward to now...
I'm on 12-16 mgs of subutex a day, and am very torn as to what i should do and whats best for THE BABY not me....
I know I wont relapse if i do wean off of it, but the doctor told me that there is a significant risk that I will miscarry if i even take less than normal one day... and because of other medical issues, if i were to have another d&c done, they have said the scar tissue will prevent any pregnancy from sticking.
I dont want to lose this baby, and I want to be off of subutex so the baby can come home and not have to be on medications for withdrawl.... seeing my child like that and knowing I did that to my child .... I just dont know if i could handle it.
PLUS will the doctor give me any meds during delivery unless i do a schedualed c section?? which i want to have this baby normally, not c section... but im worried if they do say yes but you have to stop a day before delivery and I go early.... then what???? im so confused about what i should do and whats best for my baby please someone give me some advice :(

from a very concerned mommy2bx2


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:35 pm 
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I voted no on detox. That's a lot to put the baby through, I wouldn't risk it on the dose you're on.

There are other moms here who have been in your shoes and can weigh in. My only suggestion is to not stress yourself out right now.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:55 am 
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Thank u for your input! I know it's hard for just me to get off of it I can't imagine what the baby would go thru... I'm working on my stress level... Sometimes I'm just so conflicted.. And it gets me stuck inside of my head so thank god for this forum and people's feedback!!!!
Thank you for taking the time to not only read but reply
Sincerely mommy2bx2


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:02 am 
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Congratulations on your pregnancy! I know that it's both a nerve-wracking and an exciting time right now. I agree that one of the very best things you can do for your baby is to stay as relaxed as possible. Any time your body releases "stress hormones" the baby gets a dose too. I highly recommend yoga or meditation/pray every day! As tiny dancer said, it's not a good time to detox from suboxone when you're pregnant. That doesn't mean that you can't taper if your body handles it without a lot of withdrawal symptoms.

It's almost impossible to predict whether or not your baby will go through withdrawal symptoms at birth or not. And you can't base a prediction on sub dose either! Some women who are on 24 mg/day will have babies who never experience withdrawal, and some on 2 mg/day have babies who do have symptoms.

Please take a look at this article written by Dr. Junig, who started this forum.

http://www.suboxonetalkzone.com/withdra ... uilt-trip/

Good luck with your decisions and keep us posted on how you are doing!

Amy

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:31 am 
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http://www.acog.org/Resources_And_Publi ... _Pregnancy

Mommy2, the link I provided for you above, I believe, has the most up to date information that you're asking about, that the American College of OB/Gyn has available.
Please read through it. I think find the answers you're looking for.
Best of luck!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:49 pm 
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thank you for that link, I have my first ob appointment on monday, I called around to every ob dr in the state that takes my insurance and they all said they have never had to deal with subutex during pregnancy so they could not acccept me into their practice. . I did find one dr that has delivered one baby while the mom was on subutex, I wish I could go to a specialist but medicaid doesnt cover prevenitive action ( like more ultra sounds, any specialized doctors, nothing, until its to a point where something HAS to be done... I am going to print out that article because i am worried about the epidural and any pain meds, i had my gullbladder out in may of last year and they gave me pain pills and i didnt abuse them, and the only reason im still on subs is bevause im pregnant! i was tapering down, i was taking 36mgs a day.. bad timing i guess now im stuck on it for the saftey of my baby. Ive went thru miscarriages and I just cant emotionally or physically handle it, so hopefully the ob will have some sort of input to put my mind at ease... i will keep you guys informed, i appreiate all the reaching out and taking the time to listen because i feel lost sometimes.... anyways thank you for the advice and the website link it was very informitive and a tool i can use to basically educate the ob dr lol


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:40 pm 
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Congrats on your pregnancy!! Amy-work in progress posted great advice for you.. I read the article that Barelyboxed gave the link to and I didnt agree with everything said in that article, I dont believe its the most up-to-date info. My daughter is 8 months old now, I was on 8mg suboxone when I found out I was pregnant, I switched right away to subutex and by the end of my pregnancy was taking 24mg daily due to my blood volume increasing. Unlike methadone, the chances of NAS because of sub is VERY small and has nothing to do with the daily dose you take. Like Amy said, some women take 2mg and there baby is born with withdrawals, where someone else can take 32mg daily and have a perfectly healthy baby with no signs of withdrawal. Read all the posts in the "suboxone & pregnancy" section, the best thing you can do is educate yourself. Do not compare sub to methadone though, its the same but completely opposite. Babies born on methadone are almost guaranteed to withdrawal while with sub, there's only a small chance of anything. Stay at whatever dose you are comfortable on, theres no need to taper.. whats best for your baby is doing whats best for you. Any withdrawal you feel, your baby will as well and that can cause complications. Stay on your meds and enjoy your pregnancy.. I cant stress enough how important it is to educate yourself and we will be here for any questions or concerns you have.. Good luck with everything and stick around :)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:24 am 
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Mommy2,
Glad you found the link helpful. Use it and any other articles you can find to share with your OB and/or your Sub doctor. As you said, it looks like unfortunately you'll be educating them about Sub in pregnancy! I hope you're ultimately able to get in with a good doctor who is willing to listen to you and learn. This is obviously extremely important! Plus, having such a doctor will bring your stress level down.

BeautifulMess,
You stated that you didn't agree with some of the information in the ACOG link and didn't believe it was up to date. Admittedly, I only did a brief search, but it was the most recent professional piece that I found. I was thrilled to have found it, as when I'd searched for information on the subject over the past few years there wasn't really anything other than anecdotal bits of information out there. If you've found a study or a professional article more recent than May of 2012, please share a link. I'd be very interested in reading it.

Any subject matter dealing with women's health, especially obstetrics, is near & dear to my heart. I spent many years in that profession. I believe as time goes by, the standard of care will change and buprenorphine will become the standard of care over methadone for opioid dependency in pregnancy. I believe as more studies are done and more babies are born to bupe -maintained mothers, more data will become available that will prove what you already believe....that there will be less NAS in the newborn and that there won't be any long term adverse affects as those babies progress through the normal milestones of infancy and childhood...at least that is my hope! And I can't see any reason why that wouldn't be the case.

That being said, I also believe that in a perfect world, there would be no fetal exposure to anything with any risk whatsoever. But that just isn't always possible. And even when it is possible and is accomplished, we still see less than optimal outcomes sometimes.

So Mommy2, at this point you've got a lot going for you....you want this baby and obviously already love him or her and you're trying to do what's best...you deserve credit for that! Based on the literature that is available and most of the individual, personal accounts I've seen, you're safest route would be to stay on the dose of Subutex which keeps you from having withdrawal symptoms, as the greatest risk would be for you to suffer acute opiate withdrawal, adversely affect your baby and risk a miscarriage in your first trimester or premature labor later on.

As Amy mentioned and I agree, that doesn't mean you cannot taper your dose a bit as long as you do not have withdrawal symptoms. It just makes common sense to me....as with any medication....the goal is usually to take the lowest dose you can while still having that dose be therapeutic for your particular make up and needs. So don't push yourself beyond what is comfortable and of course, work closely with your doctors with any medication adjustments.

Keep up posting here...you already have several of us who are following your story and hopeful for you!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:59 pm 
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Hey guys I was wondering if anyone had any tips, every time I put my subutex under my tounge at some point it makes me throw up weather it's right after I take it or an hour after taking it, so I've barely been able to eat one meal a day :-/ I was taking two pills a day (16mgs) but now I can barely keep one in my mouth a day... I called all my drs and no one has any answers or suggestions, my ob put me on phenagran suppositories due to weight loss and even that is not helping. In scared its going to make me miscarry and don't know what to do,.... Please if u have any tips or suggestions please let me know ASAP!!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:02 pm 
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Do you think it would help at all if you placed the sub somewhere different in your mouth? For example, try putting it between your lower lip and gums, or cheek and gums. Then maybe you wouldn't get so much on your tastebuds? I don't know if that will work, but it might be worth a try.

Amy

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:52 pm 
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As long as it stays in your mouth for 15 minutes disolve time the medicine should be absorbed. Why are you afraid you would miscarry? Saltines and never eat enough to actually feel full. Are you doing any better?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:18 pm 
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Hello guys!! I sooo much appreciate being able to get feed back from you all! It really does help me more than you know because I really feel like nobody understands at least around me what I've really been going thru. So this is what has been going on the last few weeks...

I ended up in the hospital three times in four weeks. I went to my ob first the end of February, and because its a high risk pregnancy, the dr told me to make an appointment with a specialist to discuss all of my options and be educated on what's to come after the decision if I chose to make it.. So I made that appointment and ended up very very sick. The hospital admitted me the first time due to malnutrition and also dehydration. The subutex was making me vomit every time I tasted it.. So the hospital hydrated me got me eating and keeping fluids down and put me on phenagran and also zofran.
About a week later I ended up throwing up violently again because I ran out of my medications. So I spent three days eating and trying to drink and it would immediately be thrown up, so I went BACK to the fun fun hospital and the dr there gave me Percocet and .25 mg Xanax and told me to stop the subutex, I called my subutex doctor from the hospital, and she was busy so the front office lady went back told the dr what was going on and she told me to also stop my subutex and take what I was given and told me I'm no longer her patient. I ended up not getting the scripts filled and before I left the hospital they gave me two Percocet ten mg, and sent me home. I ended up sick, in immediate detox from subutex and threw away the scripts. Since then I've been taking a quarter or half a subutex at night because my anxiety had been horrible, I've been in severe sweats, sneezing, and have not slept more than two hours a night.
(Don't know if I said this to begin with, I'm bad at telling the whole story at once guess my communication skills are lacking, I was on 24 Mgs of subutex, 1 mg colonipin twice a day and 300 Mgs of serequel at night for sleep issues, and since being sick the hospital had told me to stop everything all together)

So fast forward to Friday.. I finally got into my specialist for high risk pregnancy and she informed me that all my worries are valid but not something to worry about.
I was pregnant in 08 and at 19 weeks found out the baby had Down syndrome, and also where the brain was suppose to form a pocket of spinal fluid had formed, so to prevent the sack from bursting and me losing my life they had me have a d&c done at 21 & 1/2 weeks.
And I was in all my meds at the time and planned parent hood told me that the reason the baby was affected was my medication.
So that's why I completely stopped taking everything when the hospital had told me to, I was scared and misinformed!
So I saw the specialist and I was miserable I was dripping in sweat anxious and crying.. She has basically helped me more than she will ever know, she told me that the baby does not have any problems and the baby is also completely (anatomy wise) perfect! So as far as complications from medicine, the baby will not be affected!
As of today I'm now out of my first trimester! So they have told me I need to get on an as needed, once a day anxiety medicine so the baby does not feel the stress I am. So I have made an appointment to get back into the psychiatrist march 20th.
And Monday I have an appointment to get back on the subutex before I run out! And the specialist told me the dr absolutely cannot just stop services and leave me high and dry.. So for now I have chose to be comfortable And healthy by going back on all my medication, it's just best for the baby, because I have lost 20 pounds in three months and the dr is very concerned about the health of the baby as I am!!

If anyone has any tips as to how to slowly over the next trimester to help me keep food down or anyone that has been on anxiety medicine or subutex during pregnancy I'd really appreciate feed back because I feel soo guilty for having to have the baby addicted to medication :( but I know it's for the best because when I tried to stop the baby's heart rate went up and I lost weight and I just want a healthy baby because this will be my last child!! I'm due September 25th and I just got my first ultrasound Friday!!
Like I said I really appreciate everyone on this site and thankful that this page exists!!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:51 am 
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Barelyboxed:

I really appreciate your post I did not see that until now for some reason, I appreciate the kind words and really Appreciate the help!
A doctor at the hospital sortof opened my eyes because she basically said subutex and methadone are much much safer than being on pain medications and she also referred me to a pain management clinic... That scared me. I know how horrible I felt for literally almost 6 months straight trying to come off of methadone, my doctor had me on the punk liquid methadose... And just thinking about the smell and taste curls my stomach in knots.. And when I thought about the withdrawls subutex is definitely safer (in my opinion) and I would much rather be on subutex and worse case scenario I have to stop a day or two prior to birth, as for methadone it's unsafe to go a day without it pregnant, and I would hate myself if my child ended up in methadone withdrawl... But on the same page, I don't think I could control any pain meds even pregnant and if I took that risk, lets just say I would be very scared to take that risk. As for subutex yes I get sick when I can't take it but its nothing compared to the methadone withdrawl so I hope as well that one day subutex does become the new standard because I've seen babies that are almost guaranteed withdrawl born on methadone, as for subutex, from what I've seen and reAd is hit or miss...
I appreciate everybody's concern and comment s I don't know what I would do without this page it has put my mind at ease so much more than just random articles found on google so I commend everybody that is involved it this page!!! God bless you all!!!
Mommy2bx2


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:48 am 
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Barelyboxed:

I really appreciate your post I did not see that until now for some reason, I appreciate the kind words and really Appreciate the help!
A doctor at the hospital sortof opened my eyes because she basically said subutex and methadone are much much safer than being on pain medications and she also referred me to a pain management clinic... That scared me. I know how horrible I felt for literally almost 6 months straight trying to come off of methadone, my doctor had me on the punk liquid methadose... And just thinking about the smell and taste curls my stomach in knots.. And when I thought about the withdrawls subutex is definitely safer (in my opinion) and I would much rather be on subutex and worse case scenario I have to stop a day or two prior to birth, as for methadone it's unsafe to go a day without it pregnant, and I would hate myself if my child ended up in methadone withdrawl... But on the same page, I don't think I could control any pain meds even pregnant and if I took that risk, lets just say I would be very scared to take that risk. As for subutex yes I get sick when I can't take it but its nothing compared to the methadone withdrawl so I hope as well that one day subutex does become the new standard because I've seen babies that are almost guaranteed withdrawl born on methadone, as for subutex, from what I've seen and reAd is hit or miss...
I appreciate everybody's concern and comment s I don't know what I would do without this page it has put my mind at ease so much more than just random articles found on google so I commend everybody that is involved it this page!!! God bless you all!!!
Mommy2bx2


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:46 pm 
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Hi mommy2b..

Glad you're doing a bit better now. Severe morning sickness can and will happen no matter what medications you're taking so don't assume that it's the sub. Please read these links, k?

http://www.helpher.org/mothers/hypereme ... /index.php

http://www.nutrition411.com/education-m ... darum-diet


If you continue to not keep anything down, you and your doctor may want to consider home hydration. I heard B6 is a first line of defense when dealing with HG or even "morning" sickness in general. Protein too.

Are you still taking zofran and phenagran? I couldn't quite tell.. sounds like it was working?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:34 pm 
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I can't believe the doctor's office was so cruel to say you are no longer their patient! That is just sickening and very scary to hear.

I've had trouble keeping food down in the mornings throughout my pregnancy, and I attributed to the taste of subs in the beginning too, but I really don't think that is the problem. I started skipping my prenatal vitamin last week and stopped vomiting in the mornings for a few days, but it's returned sporadically. I don't think there's any particular medication that is causing or exacerbating the morning sickness (for me anyway). I think it's just a sucky part of pregnancy. But the severity of yours does seem like you should be taking zofran or something to help you.

I agree that subutex (or suboxone really - they're clinically identical since the naloxone has such a low affinity compared to bupe) will/should become the standard of care in opiate addicted pregnant patients. I've always wondered why so much emphasis is placed on NAS, and patients are encouraged to taper - if there is going to be some withdrawal, isn't it better for the baby to experience it outside the womb where they can be treated and comforted? I've never understood the logic that it's better for the baby to withdraw in-utero. Why?? Because we can't see them suffering? So that makes it better? I wish someone could explain that to me.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:23 pm 
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Mommy2bx2, how's everything going now? Feeling any better?

Boy you've had quite the trip, haven't you? I like your perseverance. I am not going to preach anything. I'm just here to simply say my baby is 2 months on the 17t. He was born on .5mg of subutex which was the dose I was mainly on while pregnant.. Finding out you're preggo while on suboxone is tough. Now, you're stuck with some really tough decisions to make in such a short time. And then, the what ifs, shoulda coulda woulda, mothers grief. Woah, it's a lot to handle!

He is perfectly healthy, beautiful, happy baby boy. Very alert and bright. My epidural worked FINE! I maybe needed a little more than the average joe, but nothing crazy. the only thing they suggested (not made, suggested) to me was to not take anything the day of birth, incase I needed something for pain. I didn't take the dose that day. I also didn't need anything after the birth, nor want it, only Motrin. Took my dose after I delivered, and the rest is history. He didn't have any scores, no NAS. He was my baby, he was perfect :D :)

Relax, momma! Get your rest. Please, at least for me!! Lol. You're having a baby! :)

I went through it, I know your anxiety. My heart aches for you bc it is tough. But, everything will work its way out. I'm always here for help. Any questions, ask away! I have to get something out of this experience and use it to help others! Now, go grab your fav blankey, watch a movie with a bowl of ice cream and calm those nerves. :D all the best to you from every inch of my heart.

<3 Timothy Carter- born January 17, 2013 @ 9:43 pm. 7 lbs 5oz 21.5 inches long...my 2nd baby boy<3


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:21 pm 
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Hi!
Thanks for your honesty about your experience.

I found out last week I am about 4-5 weeks along, and WAS on 10mg methadone a day...I was also still messing around here and there but nothing crazy.

SO, today I got a hold of subutex and am 2mg a day for 2 weeks then tapering down till im completely off by the Second trimester-this is only because from what ive read, that is the "window of opportunity" to taper off completely , and im on such a low dose, I feel no withdrawal currently. i practice a lot of yoga and exercise, if you can do that, it will help tremendously.

anyway, I am still scared, even though I have a plan. It is terrifying to be pregnant and dependent on opiates. or anything for that matter.

My post is under yours somewhere, and feel free to respond there anytime!

Congrats and keep us updated:)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:13 pm 
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Hello all!!!
I feel so blessed to have so many people following my situation it's helping me tremendously!
I started back on the subutex I'm taking 4mgs a day.. Spread out thruought the day, and they put me back on .25 as needed (once a night) colonipin, which has helped me eat, helped me sleep, I can take a shower every day I haven't thrown up in a week, haven't went one sleepless night in over a week, and have gained five pounds in two weeks of the 20 I lost the first trimester. I'm now 14.3 weeks, and got an ultrasound did the neurotranslucency test everything's fine got blood work done for any genetic disorders and the baby's completely fine.
Now here's where I get knocked back down....(which has been happening alot)
My ob did a drug screen when I was 5 weeks, I had a trace of marijuana in my system so she alerted child protective services.
I smoked one bowl one time two weeks before I found out I was pregnant because I was in and out of the hospital they said I wasn't pregnant all the nausea medication in the world couldn't keep any of my heart meds down no food nothing so I smoked (and got it from a owner of a dispensary) because I was willing to try anything to get food in my stomache and was in the process of getting my medical. Card... So long story short I smoked called my counselor at my intensive outpatient and we did a 24 hour relapse prevention sheet and session and everything was fine never touched anything again.
So now my ob has said that a case worker will be there as soon as I give birth
Now I'm worried because if the baby is born in withdrawls will the case worker take him because I'm on the sub and Colonopin? I'm going to taper off the Colonopin slowly after a month and be off a month or two before birth but sub I'd rather stay on and me and the baby be safe. But now I'm so scared.
The specialist I saw was amazing she has experience deliveringg baby's addicted to substances and she was no judgmental and my ob had me in tears because I'm on subutext and anxiety meds. I called the specialist and they do accept patients but it has to he referred by my ob I go to now :( and I don't know how to ask my ob to refer me I can't say I don't like u she will just tell me to find another regular on not the one I want to go to.. I just don't want someone so judgmental ruining such a special day :(
So I guess I need to know how to ask her to refer me to the specialist that explained everything and made me feel very comfortable!!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:32 am 
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Yay just wanted everyone to know my genetic testing on the baby came back normal and the dr that had referred me to CPS I called and requested to be referred to the specialist that did the tests and recommended that I get back on my dose of subs and anxiety meds so she can monitor me!! I'm so happy!! She was so helpful and compassionate, I'm so excited now! Even more!


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