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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:11 am 
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Hi, Like I said I am 36weeks pregnant and I feel like I'm in a mess! I take between 3-4mg of suboxone daily. I do not have a script for them because of my career. I buy them from a friend. I have not told my OB of my history with drug addiction or that I am taking suboxone. My questions are, when my baby is born the hospital will do a drug test on him right? Will suboxone show up? If suboxone shows up they call cps, right? Can cps take my baby then??? I am really scared, I've been scared throughout my entire pregnancy. I don't know how I will survive if they take my baby boy. Please somebody, help me.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:24 pm 
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Hi Mommy2b....so glad you wrote and asked the questions. You must be so afraid and probably feeling very alone.
First, i have not personally had the experience of deliverying while on Sub. There is a thread somewhere about this topic, however so start reading others' experiences. There have positive experiences of moms on Sub and having a good delivery and postnatal plan for babe and mom. What i think is important right now is that you talk to your OB right away and bring him in as much info as possible from Dr. J's articles and other articles about Sub, pregnancy and delivery.

I dont' know enough about what the protocols are to tell you much. I am inte medical field, but have not worked with moms on Sub. i wish i could tell you more.

But for the best outcome for you and your baby the physicians and nurses need to know what they are dealing with. There are protocols in the hosptial for this and as far as I have read CPS sometimes gets involved...I have no idea if it means they will for sure or not. But I am thinking that if this comes out at the end if babe gets drug tested then it will be a worse situation for you.

I KNOW you will get a lot of support and guidance here...I'm only writing because I feel your pain and fear but I also believe things will work out if you talk about this and make a plan with your OB, any stand by anesthesiologist and neonatolgist and your pediatrician.

Someone will come along who has experience and help you more. Just keep talking and posting and asking questions...and start gathering information to bring to your dr. I'm hoping he/she will know something about Sub and there is a good chance that will be the case...I think this can have a very positive and smooth outcome for you and once you get this "secret" out to the appropriate people you will feel so much better. I doubt you are sleeping well with the worry and you need to continue to take good care of yourself. Don't stop the Sub. Get some medical advice before you change anything.

Good luck.


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 Post subject: Oh man....
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:48 pm 
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I really feel for you. I went through a pregnancy on Sub and I know it's scary. I hate that you haven't felt safe telling your OB.

Here's the good news. I had a baby while on 3 mg Subutex, which is slightly different than Suboxone because it doesn't have the Naloxone, but still mainly the same because it has the Bupe. My baby was born with no problems....zip, zero, zilch, nada! I spaced my doses out, taking only 1 mg at a time every 8 hours and drinking tons of water all day. I actually believe it was no problem to have a baby on Suboxone, as that's what my first doctor had said, so I wasn't worried at all until my second doctor told me it could be a problem and to taper down. I never felt like I had to hide it though, and I wonder why you think you should have to hide it. An OB's job is not to judge you, but to take all the information you give them and help make the best decision for you and your baby. You have no choice in this matter. You HAVE to tell your OB. The bottom line is that they have to be prepared for the baby to have w/d, and if you try to hide it and then they recognize the symptoms of NAS, they may make assumptions about you that aren't true and they will have no faith in your word. Tell your doctor how much you take, why you didn't tell him, and how much this is torturing you!!!! Get him on your side. Ask him to please guide you however he can to help you have a healthy baby. I'm serious as a heart attack. You cannot waste anymore time. You may need to switch to Subutex NOW!!! If I lived by you, I'd go with you and hold your hand and help you explain, because I know how it feels to be pregnant and worried that people will look down on you for being on Sub. Still, you have to step up and inform your doctor so he can prepare to help your baby in any way needed. Nobody from CPS ever came to talk to me. Nothing like that was ever even mentioned. I think dishonesty is stacking the odds against you in that regard. Please do this for your baby!!! And please don't discontinue your Suboxone because it can KILL your baby!!!!! I'm sure you already know that, but I just want to remind you how serious it is.

GOOD LUCK!!!!! Please come back and tell us what happened!!!!!

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:56 pm 
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hi mommy2b... i recently delivered my beautiful baby girl on sunday feb6th. i have been on suboxone for 2yrs.. on subutex during my pregnancy, and was totally upfront with all the doctors. i do get a script and took about 4to 8ml everyday.. i was told my baby "may" go through withdrawal. so when she was born, she tested negative for subutex but had withdrawal symptoms. the day of my discharge, which was tuesday feb the 8th the hospital informed me that my baby needed to start methadone because of her withdrawal symptoms and would have to stay in the hospitol. as much as it hurt i had to leave my baby and let them begin treatment. the same day a social worker came to my hospitol room and informed me that cps had been called, that it was a mandated report and they would need to speak with me, my fiance and our 3 other children before our baby could come home.. i was blown away..they had to go to our childrens schools and talk with them. basically the paper stated i was getting the letter for being an unfit mother. i had no idea cps would be called. especially because i had been clean and taking a prescription for subs. regardless i complied, but by then the nurses started treating me like a junkie. it was awful. they have a nas score chart that they have to score your baby an hr after the baby eats.. the nurses seemed to mark the numbers high for no reason..
as we stand, a week later, my baby girl started methadone on tues and has started weaning off already. its a very slow process. they are guessing she will be there about a month.. there are 6 babies on methadone in the nursery. and 2 of them have been there for 5weeks.. it is so hard not knowing what can happen next.. mommy2b im not telling you this to scare you although im sure you are scared, i just want you and everyone to no what happened to me.. thank God i have such a wonderful supportive family to help me get through this horrible time. my baby is doing very well. getting stronger everyday.. she sleeps alot thats part of the methadone, but she eats well.. her major symptoms were quivering and shaking, spitting up and muscle stiffness.
i dont think cps would take your baby away, but i would def tell your docs the truth, they need to know so they can help your baby.... and you.. stay strong and i will keep you posted on my baby..
please keep us in your thoughts and prayers... thanks everyone!!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:17 pm 
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My goodness colleend33, I am soooo sorry to hear that your experience delivering while on sbx was so horrid! Your heart must be breaking, and my heart goes out to you. Congrats to you for doing the right thing, it breaks my heart that it didn't turn out the way I'm sure you hoped and prayed it would. I do hope that you are able to take your baby home soon and that your sweet little bundle of joy heals quickly. I hope you don't mind me asking... do you feel that because you were honest with the drs about your sub use, they perhaps exaggerated the signs of NAS a bit? Or do you feel it was all completely valid? I'm not a doctor, but did you see the signs as a mom? I ask because there have been women who posted to this site who were up front about their sub use and ultimately felt they were treated like junkies, and whose babies were kept in the NUCU even though as mothers, they didn't feel they needed to be. But there are also women who've been up front who were NOT treated like 2nd rate citizens, and who were able to leave with their babies the following day. Perhaps part of the difference is due to a lack of experience with some drs vs lots of experience with others? I'm not sure. Sadly there just doesn't seem to be one set way for how things will go. But I'd like to put some things out there, just to share some alternative experiences I've seen and heard about, and hopefully help mommy2b understand that so many factors seem to be involved in how things will go down, and that everyone's choice and experience may be very different from the next.

I know a couple of girls who actually did HEROIN their entire pregnancy (who are clean and well today). They both stopped using it 1-2 days before their scheduled deliveries by taking sbx, but did not tell the doctors about their heroin use. They were discharged with their children the following day (it's important to add that it is likely the withdrawal could have caused labor, and they chose not to stop until they were full term for this reason). These women are both very forthcoming about their stories, and they are both sure that had they said anything about their drug use to the doctors, their children would have ended up in NICU on methadone or morphine for a month, something they both felt was unnecessary. They both felt their children were going to cry, they would be cold, but would need to be held and soothed and would need to feel warm and talked to, that coming out of the womb is a traumatic experience for a baby, and that drugs wouldn't have helped them as much as mama could. They felt that typical signs of a baby coming out of a womb could be mistaken as withdrawal, and they claim to have watched their babies closely in the event they needed to tell the drs the truth. I know this is an extreme case, and I absolutely agree that honesty is the best policy (ESPECIALLY in recovery, when so much of our past as active addicts is full of lies)... nor do I condone what these women did, but I wonder if honesty is the best way for absolutely every woman and child? Could the women I mentioned have had their children die from withdrawal by not having been honest? Or did they make what they felt was the right decision for herself and her child? Were they just lucky or did they actually do the right thing with the situations they were already faced with? Again I am not a doctor but today they both have completely healthy children, and are not afraid to tell their story to the rest of us during group meetings. They are clean and well... maybe not how every woman would end up, but it is how things went down for them. They spent 9months feeling guilty but not knowing what to do, and although heroin is much more dangerous than say, sbx, it just seems to be such a similar story. So in theory, isn't 2-4mg of sbx the lesser of the two evils? I've read that babies suffer noticeable withdrawal from tobacco use... but to my knowledge nothing is done to ease the symptoms. Is this very different? Could a woman try to detox baby from sbx while in the womb when OB says she is full term, or is this also dangerous? Seems this is a very deep, highly debate-able subject, and perhaps only time, experience, and doctor involvement/study will tell what the answers truly are, but I'd love to hear what you guys have to say about these devils advocate questions, and I also think it's important to share these quieter stories becuase so many of these undocumented cases can likely help as well.

Please note that I do not claim to have any of the answers here, not even one answer. I just wanted to throw some of that out there becuase I tend to think that every woman's position is a bit unique, and that not every hospital or doctor or nurse is as knowledgeable about sbx as the next, and that some still think sbx is just like methadone and will treat it as such. Some hospitals may justify the added expense of standardizing sbx testing into the toxicology screen, others may not.

In any case, for mommy2b and for anyone else in this same predicament, I wanted to share a thread on the Suboxone Talk Zone site from women who did not feel they could be honest about their sub use, and whose experiences turned out well (for them). A couple of drs have also posted to this thread with their two cents, and based on this thread alone, I tend to think that many women on sbx (honest about it or not) may have an okay experience. But I also know that every pregnancy is different, and every choice a pregnant woman feels they must make is different, so I thought it would be nice to show the other side of the coin. Please check it out, continue to read as much information as possible on this topic (from both angles), and I know you will be able to make the right decision for you and your unborn baby. I just don't know that there is one right answer. All we can do is try to do the right thing by our unborn child. Seek as much wisdom from your higher power as possible, continue to arm yourself with as much info as possible, and I know you'll do to the right thing, whatever that is for you.

Here's the link: http://suboxonetalkzone.com/2008/10/02/ ... e/#respond

I'd love to hear what anyone thinks about my multitude of questions. I know they're all over the place but I'm hoping that by attempting to answer through shared stories, research, and even doctor input, we all might be able to understand sbx and pregnancy a bit more.

Anyway GOOD LUCK to all of you! Sending love and blessings to you and your babies. Thanks for listening to me babble. :)


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:16 am 
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Thank u guys for all of your input. I'm pretty confident with my decision to not tell my OB about my suboxone use. However, after the baby is born I will have no problem telling the truth if I see any signs/symptoms of NAS. I pray to God that my baby boy will be born with no withdrawals though. I have cut myself down to 1.5mg this past week, and starting tomorrow I'm gonna see how I do with 1mg. Don't know how well I'm gonna do seeing as how I get the sweats and chills when my dose starts wearing off though. Anyway, if there is anyone out there that has been in my situation before I'd love for you to share your story with me. I would like to thank all of you for not judging me, you really are a great group of people. Thanks again.


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 Post subject: Wait!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:33 pm 
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To be honest, I am just not sure what you should do. I wish I could see the future and be able to tell you whether telling your doctor would cause you trouble or not.

This whole situation is wrong in every way. Switching to Suboxone is a responsible choice that should not be penalized. No woman should have to fear being judged or having their baby taken away!!! It never occurred to me to fear such a horrid thing as having my kids taken by CPS or even having CPS come and interfere in my life. If I'd known that was a risk.....I don't know what I would have done. It would have scared the crap out of me...that's for sure. I did read that article about normal newborn behavior being misread as NAS, and that really struck a chord with me. There's this huge gap in the correlation between how much Bupe a mom takes and the supposed w/d the baby has. In other words, as we've all read, one mom can be taking a tiny dose and her baby can have NAS and another mom can be taking a much higher dose and her baby may have no NAS. It makes no sense, but I'm suspicious whether the EXPECTATION of NAS symptoms significantly increases the chance of NAS. It's an interesting question! I know that my third baby, born on Sub, behaved absolutely normally, at least as far as I could tell. She did everything a 'normal' baby should do and I saw nothing weird or different in her behavior. I also never got the impression that the doctors were overly worried about her condition. She was in the room with me for the most part and there was no evident addition scrutiny of her condition. I asked a number of times if she was okay, and I was reassured.

What worried me about your plan (mommy2b) is that you are tapering and getting w/d symptoms. And you have no guidance from a doctor. I wish there was some doctor you could anonymously call to get some feedback from. At this point, you are so close to having your baby. You are at a low dose...even lower than I was and I delivered a healthy baby. Don't push it to get any lower. If your body is comfortable doing it, that's one thing, but if it's making you feel sick, it's too much. Going to 1 mg would actually be a tough drop. You are term now, right? I think your chances of having a problem-free delivery are very high. I hate, hate, hate that you are alone in this!!!! I just hate it for you. I typically think one should be honest with their doctor, especially when pregnant!! However, I have doubts about that. There's obviously some risk involved in honesty and that is so unfortunate.

Please come back and update after you have your baby!! Don't leave us wondering!!

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:26 am 
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I understand exactly why you don't want to tell your Dr about the Sub. It's just sad how we get treated by some Docs because we have a disease. I hate that you have to go through this and I know you hate this too.

If it were me in your situation I would tell the Dr about the Sub for the baby sake. I know I would probably get treated like crap from the Dr and nurses but because my babies safety was involved I would have to put my baby before myself here. Not saying you are doing anything wrong that is just what I would have to do. I would also have to think about what if an emergency came up ( got forbid it didn't) and my baby had to have some sort of emergency surgery after birth and needed pain management. Because of the Sub in the babies system he wouldn't receive adequate pain relief and could suffer.

I know you are scared and very worried but waiting till the baby is born and waiting to see if you see symptoms yourself may not be a good idea for the safety of your baby. Also if one of the Dr's or nurses see symptoms of withdrawal and you weren't completely honest with them upfront it could really work against you in the long run especially if CPS had to get their asses involved. I hate CPS! CPS is worth nothing they always want to interfere with a good parent ( like a parent on sub or in treatment) but if a parent is abusing their child and a child really needs help. Where are they then? Why Dr's call call CPS in a case where a woman is recovering from addiction using sub and trying to make a better life for her and her child is beyond stupid!

I really hope and wish your baby and you the best . You know what is best for your baby more than anyone else.Try not to worry.


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 Post subject: Everything will be okay
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:38 am 
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If u read my post titled "for Women pregnant and on suboxone" it will help you out...I don't feel like writing out the whole story but to make a long story short my best friend was in the same situation as you and she just had her baby about 3 weeks ago...she tapered herself down to like 1 mg give take a day...when it came down to the labor and delivery she had no trouble with the eppidural and her baby boy was born with no w/d symptoms at all and he was full term too!
There are so many reasons she didn't tell her doctors...i wrote about them in my other post ....I have been helping her and researching this situation thru her whole pregnancy so if u have anymore questions about this. Please let me know...she went thru the same anxiety and stress as u did...I would love to help you and ease your mind


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:52 am 
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I am very happy to report that my son was born on 3-6-11. He is a very healthy 7lb, 20inches long baby!! I was very concerned about being on the suboxone without letting anyone know. Me and my baby were very lucky, he showed no signs at all of NAS. He did sneeze a few times and still does once in a while but thats it. I believe that is normal behavior in a newborn anyway...I can remember my daughter sneezing when she was first born. Anyway, just wanted to update anyone who was interested in knowing. So, if there is anyone out there that has a similar situation, u can breathe a little easier. I got to bring my baby boy home with no problems!! I was crapping my pants a lil though when I heard the lady for CPS introduce herself to the new mommy next door who's newborn tested positive for marijauna (sp). I thought for sure she was coming to my room next....but she didn't. Thank you Jesus!!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:51 pm 
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mommy2b wrote:
I am very happy to report that my son was born on 3-6-11. He is a very healthy 7lb, 20inches long baby!! I was very concerned about being on the suboxone without letting anyone know. Me and my baby were very lucky, he showed no signs at all of NAS. He did sneeze a few times and still does once in a while but thats it. I believe that is normal behavior in a newborn anyway...I can remember my daughter sneezing when she was first born. Anyway, just wanted to update anyone who was interested in knowing. So, if there is anyone out there that has a similar situation, u can breathe a little easier. I got to bring my baby boy home with no problems!! I was crapping my pants a lil though when I heard the lady for CPS introduce herself to the new mommy next door who's newborn tested positive for marijauna (sp). I thought for sure she was coming to my room next....but she didn't. Thank you Jesus!!


OMG, I am happier than happier than happy for you!!!!!!! Yes, babies sneeze!! LOL! All my babies sneezed a lot. They have to keep clearing their noses. I'm so relieved for you. I can only imagine how scary that must have been. You shouldn't have had to go through that, but the bottom line is YOUR BABY IS FINE!!!! YAY!!!!! God Bless you!!!!

laddertipper

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 Post subject: GRATEFUL
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:17 pm 
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I AM SO GLAD I FOUND THIS POST!!! YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW BRAVE I THINK YOU ARE! I AM DEALING WITH THE SAME ISSUES! I'M DUE SOON AND SO SCARED!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:02 pm 
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I just wanted to chime in and share a quick version my birth story because I DID NOT tell my physicians that i was on bupe. i was so scared of cps that i actually opted for a homebirth. the birth was actually the most amazing experience i ever had.

my husband & i watched for signs of NAS on our own. there is a "score sheet" type of thing you can use. The thing you have to remember about NAS is that ALL babies cry, all babies are fussy in those first few weeks, so it can be a little tricky. Our baby showed no signs of NAS. I would think if you are breastfeeding, that is a way of wweaning them down a little too. I still breastfeed and baby is now 9 months.

in regards to your original question, if you have no history of drugs that your physicians know about, I don't think they will test your baby for drugs. you can always deny any kind of testing in your birth plan for your baby too.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:38 pm 
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i know this is late, but i am in the same exact situation as mommy2b. i am due september 13th and am weening myself down as we speak i am at 2-4 mg per day right now and plan to be off by delivery time. i too am not telling my OB for fear of unnecessary CPS involvement as well as the hospitals mental thinking that my baby will be going through NAS just because they know that i was on subs. i too am not prescribed, as i share my husbands script. if more people could share stories or show some support i would really appreciate it, i am still VERY nervous! please pray for baby and me.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:54 pm 
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sklovesme--I will keep you in my prayers! I'm scared about what is going to happen when I have my baby and my doctors are aware of my sub use and I have a rx, so I know your situation must be more stressful! I hope everything turns out well. Please let us know what happens.

I'm curious to know the ratio of NAS babies born to mothers who didn't disclose their use of Sub vs. mothers who did. I wish there was some way to have data from hundreds of births of each type. I have a sneaking suspicion that the side who didn't tell would have a lower incidence of NAS. I'm thinking when NAS is expected the babies are scored higher. Thoughts anyone?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:09 pm 
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cinnagirl-thanks so much for your prayers and support! and response :)
i am down to 3 MGs a day and 35 weeks pregnant. i would really like to be off by time i go into labor...please need more feedback and more experiences posted!!
i still am not telling my OB, she is very old school and i know she would not be okay with the fact that i am on it without a script.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:00 pm 
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Hi sklovesme, I have not had a baby while on sub but I am a mom to a 5 year old, 3 year old and 9 month old twins so I can imagine your fear and concern. I also understand not telling your OB, I know most people recommend it. My biggest fear of them knowing would be them mistaking normal newborn behavior for nas and my baby being put in the nicu and tapered with opiates for no reason. My daughters were born early being twins and it was the most heart breaking thing watching your babies in the nicu and getting stuck with needles and knowing they need their mom. From having 3 births I do know that newborns are not routinely checked for drugs. I would suggest you reading all info and warning signs on nas so you can watch your baby and if you suspect it you need to be prepared to tell the doctors for the health of your baby. I am not trying to scare you, I am sure you will have a happy healthy baby. I am so sorry you have to go thru this and am sure everything will turn out fine in the end. Congrats on your coming bundle of joy and keep us posted. I will be praying for you and your precious little angel.


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breezy_ann, thanks so much for the response. i am happy you mentioned that they do not test newborns regularly. this definitely gives me peace of mind. my doctors know nothing about my drug history so they shouldn't be looking for anything. also i have studied the NAS scoring chart and learned what to look for. thanks for the advice!!


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You're welcome :) I'm pretty sure you should be just fine as far as testing goes. As long as they have no reason to suspect drug use I'm pretty confident they won't test you or the baby. Also, I know standard drug screens don't even test for subs anyway. Good luck! I'm sure you must have read the threads on here from some other moms in your position and everything worked out fine for them. I know you must be getting excited! I know I am. I'm having an US today and I'm super excited to see my little guy :)


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OO that is so great!! i had an ultrasound on wednesday and it was so amazing to see him! i am getting increasingly excited and nervous at the same time. i just want to stop guessing and worrying about him having NAS and just know that everything will be okay! Good Luck with everything and congrats!!!! God Bless you and your precious little angel ;)


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