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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:22 pm 
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I have been on here for a while and only posted once way earlier in my pregnancy. I mostly go on here to read other posts from other women who are pregnant and on subutex. Anyway, I will give you a quick background. I was a heavy drug user on and off for many, many years, and have been struggling with opiate addiction for at least 20 years. (I started very young). I am now 37 years old, and was still using here and there before I found out I was pregnant. I got off methadone about a year ago and relapsed, etc. I wanted to get clean, and when I found out I was pregnant it was such a blessing and gave me the motivation I needed to stop, and I immediately went on subutex. I will tell you, this pregnancy was definetly a surprise but a great one!! My bf and I are very much in love and plan on getting married next summer. He is very supportive and is my best friend in the world, so having this baby is such a miracle to me! Anyway, sorry I am rambling,lol. Anyway the subutex has been such a miracle drug for me, as I was so terrified of not being able to stay clean and so scared of relapsing. I have been struggling with chronic pain, migraines, back pain, fibromyalgia,severe depression, bipolar disorder, and severe anxiety for many many years and am on disability because of all of these health issues, which allows me to stay home while I am tapering. I have been procrastinating thinking I had so much time left to taper, and now that its getting closer I am freaking out that I wont be able to be off in time. I was originally just gonna go as low as I could, but I am having such bad anxiety and of course my main concern is that I don't want the baby to suffer NAS, and have withdrawals,etc. I want what is best for my baby, but getting off the subs has been extremely hard for me, especially because if the mental anxiety! It makes it harder knowing that as soon as I feel crappy, I know I can just take more and feel better. I try to keep myself busy,etc, but since I am not working it should be easier to deal with any withdrawals. I am still fine at 2 mg, but went from 8 mg a day a few weeks ago.I have heard that it gets a lot more difficult once you get down to and below 1mg, and lower, which I plan on trying to go from 2mg for a few more days, and then jump to 1.5, then 1mg, .75, .50, .25, .125 and then jump. The problem is I waited too long so I don't have the luxury of taking my time! I am currently still on 2 mg a day and I have read a lot of the tapering schedules from others on here that I can safely go down 25% every 4-5 days. I am so scared that since I waited so long, I am gonna have to taper a lot faster if I want to be off before delivery. Also my ob knows I am prescribed subutex, and I have been completely honest the entire pregnancy but I am stil so afraid of dyfs getting involved and being treated like a junkie by the nurses, so I just want off this crap! Does anyone know the laws in nj like will dyfs be notified even if I am prescribed subutex by a doctor? I just don't want to have to deal with those people when this is supposed to be a happy time! I guess I am just looking for support right now, as I am getting so close to delivering, and I am already super scared of giving birth even though I have a 15 year old son, that was sooooo long ago,lol. Being on the subs has been a lifesaver, but has also made this pregnancy so worrisome, and made my anxiety ten times worse! Any support or encouragement would be greatly appreciated! Thanks to all! :-)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:09 pm 
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Please read this: http://suboxonetalkzone.com/withdrawal-in-newborns-lay-off-the-guilt-trip/

I don't know you, so I can't give much in the way of advice. But in general, people avoid relapse at a higher rate if they spend more time on buprenorphine. The goal with treatment is similar with buprenorphine to methadone treatment-- to remove the cycle of use/withdrawal/use, while working on specific issues that are holding the person back and that are likely to trip the person up in the future. We know that a year on maintenance medication is not long enough. Londer times have not been studied, but I see people do well after SEVERAL years in a state of 'remission'. By then, many patients feel different, and have a harder time even seeing themselves back in that old place.

As much as you are excited about your baby, make sure you are smart about what you do going forward. Social services has no desire to get wrapped up in a case of someone who is on the write path. But they will take action against a mom whow is actively addicted to opioids.

You are trying to taper very quickly at this point. To avoid withdrawal, a person on methadone typically tapers by 2-4% every two weeks. Tapering off 50 mg of methadone can take a full YEAR. Going faster as you are, it will be impossible to avoid withdrawal. You decision will be whether to stick with thie rate, or instead whether to stay on buprenorphine, have the baby, and then slowly get on with the taper. Given where things are, I'd usually recommend the LATTER approach.

Your baby will NOT remember any NAS experiences. But there MAY be consequences if social services gets involved because of relapse, or if you get hit with any criminal charges. NAS can LOOK bad to a nurse or to a mom, but all babies lack myelin in their nerves, causing some degree of spasticity. And all babies cry-- a lot!! NO babies feel 'guilty', ashamed, or remorseful about opioid use.

None of us remember what 'colic' feels like, when the gut spasms and causes some amount of pain or discomfort, causing babies to pull up their legs and cry. But as I wrote in the link above, uncomfortable sensations are common for neonates. Don't get too hung up on the guilt trip that people will try to take you on!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:48 pm 
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Subdoc, I think I once saw you post something to the effect that a mother on or below 2 mg has a very unlikely chance that her baby will be born with NAS, was I right about that?

I know the studies say that it doesn't matter if mom was in 32mg or 8mg, NAS is still just a crap shoot.

But let's say this mom tapered down a little more, I agree her taper is quite fast. Mine is quite fast and I'm a little further ahead than her. So let's say she tapered to .5mg. Do you have any idea the if the chance of NAS is lessened?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:01 pm 
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Subdoc, thank you so much for your advice and quick response! That is so funny because maybe an hour or so ago, I was already just reading the link that you suggested to read! I am aware that this is a long shot that I will be able to taper to nothing at this point, but I am still gonna try my best to at least get down to as low a dose as possible. I keep telling myself that even if my baby has NAS it is not the end of the world, and I know that babies go thru so many other obstacles at birth that they wont remember, and also that babies do not have the capacity to go thru the same cravings and mental addiction, etc. I am just hoping as every mother does, that my baby does not suffer withdrawals. I was also wondering if I can get down to the lowest dose, say at .5 or .25, does that reduce my chances of my baby having withdrawals at all? I know the dosage amount does not determine whether or not she will have withdrawals, as there are some women on 16mg that have babies with no withdrawals, and women who are on 4mg and have babies that do. But if I am at least almost off it, and at such a small dose does that reduce my chances at all? I guess I am just afraid that I wont be able to get off entirely in time. Also, I am aware that I have been on maintenance with the subutex for such a short period of time, and have only been clean from active addiction, for a very short period of time, and I am also terrified of relapsing, because I know myself better than anyone. I no longer have cravings, and do not want to use, however I know from experience how easy it is to slip back into old ways and behaviors. Because I want to avoid relapse, I would rather go back on the subutex and stay on it for maintenance after the baby is born. I have already spoken to my sub dr, about staying on the subs after the baby is born, and he agrees that is a good plan for me.I do not ever want to go back to active addiction! Because I suffer from chronic pain, severe depression, anxiety,etc I go to therapy and see a psychiatrist also so that helps. Anyway I will keep posting my progress! Please know that any support and encouragement goes a long way! Thanks so much!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:24 pm 
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Hello, I just wanted to update on my progress so far. I have only gone down to 1.5 mg a aday, and I split my dose in .75 in the a.m., and .50. in pm. So far I am feeling very little withdrawals, barely even noticeable. Mostly just anxiety and a little chills here and there, especially when I first wake up in the morning. I have heard that it gets really tough once I get down to 1mg and below, so I am not looking forward to this. However I am very much looking forward to the birth of my baby, and can't wait to finally meet her! I made sure I got everything ready for the baby, so that in the next weeks I will have everything pretty much ready, as I probably won't be feeling too well. I am so determined to do this! I had gotten off methadone twice before and that was absolute hell, so this should be a piece of cake compared to that. I just wish I had more time!! Its my own fault for procrastinating. Anyway, please let me know if anyone has any suggestions of things I can do to deal with withdrawals, to ease the discomfort? I know it is safe to take diphenhydramine(Benadryl), (but I am off course gonna try to not take anything) Tylenol, if needed, and I read conflicting opinions on whether or not it is safe during pregnancy to take melatonin for sleep? My ob told me I could take magnesium supplements, for RLS, which I have also. I plan on going to get some relaxing bubble bath today, maybe some lavender oil, to promote relaxation, etc. I remember last time detoxing that taking a nice relaxing bath helped a lot. Any other suggestions? Thank you, and wish me luck!!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:37 am 
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I have been at 1.5 mg for a few days now, and I am planning on tapering down to 1mg in a day or so. I had went to my ob yesterday, and found out my baby is breech, so I had to go early today to get an ECV, which is when they try to move the baby in the right heads down position. Let me tell you, that was not fun.lol. It was painful and uncomfortable, but successful. Now I just hope my baby stays put in the right spot, otherwise if she flips back into the breech position will need a C-section. I am not feeling that terrible yet, only feeling slight withdrawals, mostly a little chills, and just that icky uncomfortable feeling. I don't know how much time I have left to taper, but I know the importance of being stable at a dose before I taper lower, and I want to do this right in order to be successful. It is the hardest thing knowing that I can just take more and feel better, but I just won't do it, cuz I know it will just make me feel guilty. I am feeling very lethargic and lazy, which is annoying but tolerable. I always try to take my doses split in two, around the same time every day, which I find is also helpful. It definitely gets a lot worse at nighttime I have noticed, with more anxiety, but I have been still able to sleep, luckily. I have been taking a melatonin supplement, to help sleep which my ob said is safe at 3mg or lower, and also magnesium for the RLS. I am not working right now, which makes this a lot easier to cope with. Anyway, I am writing this in hopes to help even one other person dealing with the same issues, and to keep my own sanity. Thank you


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:25 pm 
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Dawn although it is important to make sure your stable at your current dose, this is to help with successful tapering and to decrease in w/d symptoms. But in your case, IMO, you don't have the time or the luxury to become stable before your decrease further. Your just going to have to do it and withstand the w/d symptoms, if you can.

For me, I'm just today decreasing to .75mg, and I wasn't really completely stable at 1mg but it was time and I had to do it. I'm trying to be realistic and honestly don't think I'm going to be completely off before I deliver. I'm thinking I'll be on about .50/.25mg and hoping for at least a 3 day notice before my csection so I can stop whatever dose I'm on for 3 days before surgery. I guess this situation would be worst case scenerio for me. Well worst case would be if I don't have any notice before the surgery and I wouldn't have a few days to go without bup completely.

My advice to you would be to just try to get as low as you can. The lower the better, especially if your going to have a csection, the last thing you want is to be in severe pain with your new babe. And I don't know about your OB, but I'm sure mine thinks .50mg of bup is nothing, so he would be very reluctant to medicate more than the normal person, so the lower the better. On the other hand, I don't want them to have to medicate me more than the normal person because I don't want them looking to the baby for neonatal w/d symptoms. I know how that can turn out and I don't want my baby going to the NICU being medicated unnecessarily. If I see w/d symptoms in him I will notify the staff.

Keep posting your progress and good luck!!


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:03 pm 
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Hey 1234km! You are definitely right! I don't have the time or the luxury to get stable at my doses! At this point I am almost at 36 1/2 weeks!! I am still struggling at 1.25mg! I have a feeling I am not gonna be able to be completely off by the time I deliver. I go on Monday to see if after they did the ECV, and moved the baby in the heads down position, if she is gonna stay put. I go on Monday also for the non-stress test, too. If I do need a scheduled C-section, my doctor said I have to be completely off a week before the date, so I would much rather deal with a week of misery than have the pain meds not work because of the subs. I know everyone says this but it is so true that 90% of this struggle is mental! The worst part for me is trying to distract myself and keep busy. Its hard just to get motivated to do normal household chores, and even just to take a shower and get ready to go do anything! I feel completely useless and so lazy. I try to remind myself of all the many times in active addiction that I was ten times more sick, and had no way to feel better, so I pretend that taking even a small dose more, is not an option. It is the hardest at night, with the rls, and not being able to sleep, but being exhausted! So far I figure I will stay at 1.25mg until tom, then jump to 1mg, and stay at each 25% decreased dose for just a day or two, that way I can get as low as possible. My goal is to be off, but if that's not possible, then I want to be at least down to .5mg or less. I am so afraid of having to deal with the judgement from the nurses, and being treated like a low life piece of crap junkie by the hospital staff,etc. I am so afraid that my baby will have withdrawals, and have to stay in the nicu, and won't be able to go home with me. I am also afraid that because of the subs the nurses will be looking for w/d symptoms that are just normal newborn symptoms, and not score appropriately. I am also not sure if dyfs(cps is dyfs in NJ where I live), is automatically notified even if you have a legit prescription? I just don't want to have to deal with that, I already feel guilty and ashamed enough without being interrogated about my past, and being judged. What state do u live in? Here it is so disgustingly humid and sticky that's not helping at all. Well, I will find out next week if I am gonna need a C-section, so I will keep you posted! Good luck with your taper and keep me updated on whats going on with you! :-)


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:30 pm 
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You know with my first pregnancy I was so worried about what the nurses would think and everyone else for that matter.....but with this one I quite frankly don't give a damn what they think. And if they want to treat me differently because of what I'm taking to help with my addiction, thats their problem, not mine. And I won't stand for their attitude, I will go straight to the charge nurse. But my plan is not to let them know at all.....not because i'm worried what they will think, but like I said before because i don't need them looking with 5 eyes at my infant for w/d symptoms.

But i totally get why you feel the way you do and someone telling me not to feel that way 2 years ago wouldn't have made any difference. You have to get there on your own.

For me with my last pregnancy, I was on .125mg for about a week (i think) and then I jumped, with no w/d symptoms I might add, was only off for 3 days before i went into labor and I was fine. They had a little trouble getting my pain under control, but they didn't have to use anything that was normally already ordered by the OB, just probably to the top/end/highest of what he normally prescribes. When they used Dilauded is what finally helped. Also i think they left the spinal in for longer than normal to also help.

Your absolutely right about it being so much mental, it really is!! But still, knowing that doesn't make it any better, or go away.

I'm lucky enough that I think my doctor respects my privacy. He told me that it was completely up to me whether or not I let the parnetologist next week about the bupe. I think I won't tell him, I don't really need any further advice from him.....the only reason I can see for telling him is if it will be a reason for him to give me a definitive date for surgery, but I will just see what happens in the appointment.

Im in Utah, and its finally cooling off here. As far as DCFS getting involved, they didn't last time but I don't think anyone besides my OB and anesthesiologist knew about the Bupe. BUT I will tell you that if DCFS were to get involved for a valid and legal rx that I was taking, I would be VERY annoyed and don't think I would treat them very well.

It obviously goes without saying that I am very tired of the stigma that comes along with taking Bupe/suboxone, and won't put up with it. But also to be fair, I really haven't had many (if any if I'm really being honest) bad reactions from people because of the fact that i'm on it. I've just heard and read so many stories of people trying to get their lives back on track who were looked down upon or treated unfairly or DCFS getting involved when they shouldn't-those stories really make me mad. But personally, really, I have been lucky. Lol, my mother and family were probably the ones who gave me the most trouble when they found out when I was pregnant last time and on bupe, but to be fair, even I had an anti suboxone mentality for quite sometime before i realized how terrible the success rates for recovery were. My family is still coming around and is really probably the people who have most looked down on me for using it. But I've also come to the realization that its my life, I'm an adult, and its none of their business what I do, especially if i'm staying clean.

Whew, long winded post!!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:36 pm 
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1234km, It does make me very angry when I read stories about people who are looking for help with their addiction, and get treated like criminals. I know that I am doing the right thing for myself, and my baby, and I know I am on the right path. Its not that I even care what the nurses at the hospital think, its that I just don't want to deal with their nasty attitudes. So far, the nurses I have met have been pretty nice. Maybe its just in my head and its my own guilt that is making me feel like I am being judged and looked down upon. If they give me a hard time , I will speak to the nurse in charge as well. I have been completely honest with all my dr's, and I have nothing to hide. I am also going to treatment to a therapist and psychiatrist, so they will see that I am serious about my recovery.
How are you doing on your taper down to .75mg? I am at 1mg starting today, .5mg in the am, and .5mg in the evening and so far its not that bad, I just feel kinda nauseous, have chills, anxiety and no energy. I give you a lot of credit! I can't imagine feeling like this and having to take care of a toddler as well! You should give yourself a huge pat on the back! My son is 15, so he pretty much takes care of himself for the most part. I am very lucky, he is very mature and responsible for his age. Well. keep me posted! :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:23 pm 
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I am still struggling at 1mg, and as I am now at 37 weeks it is getting more and more difficult to deal. The worst symptom I am experiencing is severe depression, and lethargy. Also having chronic pain issues, doesn't help either.I feel completely useless, and even the smallest tasks seem impossible. I keep reminding myself that all this will pass, but it is still difficult. All I want to do is lay in bed, but it is difficult to sleep. I have been taking 25mg diphenhydramine at night to help sleep and melatonin 3mg , which my ob said was safe. At this rate, I hope to at least be down to .5mg before I deliver, which could be any day now. I was supposed to go see my psychiatrist today, but since she can't really adjust my medication for depression or anxiety at this point until after I have the baby, I figure I will wait til after I deliver to see her. That way I can speak to her about postpartum depression and other issues, etc which I am sure I will get since I already have major depressive disorder. I did go to see my therapist yesterday, which did help a little just to talk to someone. I have an appointment tomorrow with my ob for a weekly non stress test. I am so uncomfortable and sick of being pregnant! I just want to meet my baby and have her be healthy! Time seems to just be dragging on...


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:04 pm 
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I am currently stuck at 1mg, and have decided to stay at my current dose until delivery. I am scheduled to have another ECV, where they will try to turn the baby because she is breech, and if successful I will be induced. If not I will need a C-section. I am very nervous and anxious to get this part over with! Anyway I am gonna take my last dose tomorrow morning and give myself 24 hrs in case I need the C-section. Wish me luck! :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:06 am 
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Good luck and I think it's very smart to stay at 1mg. Keep us updated!

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