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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:31 am 
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42 yom with 4 yrs of rx and off rx opiate use. Decided pain management clinics and opiates not the way for me. Already have too many genetic markers predisposed to addiction. Got on subox about 5 months ago at 16mg/day film. Tried tapering off as prescribing dr. suggested. First to 12, then 8, then 4 over last 2 months. As I said, prone to be an addict and found myself quickly losing that battle. Within days of going to 4, was back up to 16 and jonesin for more. Got my dumb ass self in position to have a gap of 5 days before able to fill again. At that point, went cold turkey off subox and began the nightmare of detox. Of course, first few days I was practically begging for a bullet to the brain to stop the suffering but kept moving through the hell. By day 5, I had decided that I was not going back no matter how bad I felt! What a decision. I picked up my Xanax rx and told the pharmacy I didn't want anything else to do with the subox(even though every fiber in my body was screaming "Get that shit"!) First week off, I did not sneeze. About day 7 until now, have been experiencing CRAZY sneezing fits of 4 or 5 in a quick succession about 25 times a day!have never had any type of allergies or hay fever except during highest pollen counts and then only sneezed once a week or so. I have actually lost count of my exact date of stoppage now, which I am taking as a good sign of withdrawals starting to dissipate. I know I am closing in on a month off of the subox. My questions are as follows:

1. Is all this sneezing truly part of the withdrawals? If so, when can I hope for a decrease in these symptoms?
2. Am I over the worst of the cravings? When the hell do I get to sleep again, at least for more than an hour?
3. My testosterone has started to rebound as evidenced by desires coming back, but still not right. When will this get right?
4. Am I ever going to feel like I want to get up and play with my boys again? I have a 14 yom and twin 12 yom's and have robbed them of their dad for long enough. Now I am dealing with the guilt that came with that realization, but that alone is not helping me get my lazy ass up and get going. I feel like every bit of my energy has been sapped and I want it back!
5. I started an aggressive acupuncture program at the same time that I started subox. I had zero knowledge of eastern medicine(other than discovery channel and the like) prior to this treatment. It is holistic acupuncture with a certified Vietnamese MD. It is the ONLY thing I have done since my hip surgery 4 yrs ago that has truly relieved the pain in my hip and back. Well, to be fair, about 8 months ago I had an rf ablation of my sciatic nerve that removed that problem, I hope
permanently. Does everyone with chronic pain know about acupuncture and is this typical? Or was I just a junkie with a psychosomatic pain in that hip?
6. After beginning subox I developed a dry, cracking to the point of bleeding, palm condition that I am unable to shake. Is this also a symptom of opiate wds?
7. Does this hell end and when? I got shit to do!!!
8. I have been exploring meditation, yoga, Tai chi, TM, and anything else I can get some info on to find my balance again. Not my literal balance but my chi balance. Does anyone have some suggestions from their experiences as far as which direction to go on this?
9. Is there a normal after opiates? I am gaining confidence but still feel like I have forever to go!

In closing, I want everyone to know that you can make a change and get your life back. I certainly don't have any of the answers but I can tell you that if my weak willed self can get this far, so can you. I have started, however slowly, running the soccer field with my boys again. First time I have gone faster than a brisk walk in 4 yrs. Of course, I am huffing and puffing just minutes in but still making the effort. Middle age is kicking in and I am sure some of my lethargy must be from that, but I'm hoping that I can overcome that without seeking out another pharmaceutical. For years, I had given up on my body just saying I was broken. Whenever I get to the other side of this mountain, I hope that I can help others over.

Thanks in advance...D


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:25 am 
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[font=Comic Sans MS]Hello DerailJr. Welcome to the forum! I am so sorry to hear that you are feeling as crappy as you are. But I do feel
like you are due a HUGE CONGRATULATIONS!!!!! Making that decision to just NOT get your subs filled, and just
be done with them is commendable. I am just like you in the sense that I will NEVER be able to taper. I don't
have it in me. If I was capable of tapering off of anything, I would have just tapered off of opiates. LOL
I have not personally tapered off of subs yet. BUt I have gone for a few days without. Nothing compared to
jumping though.

I think that you should do some reading in the "Bupe in the rearview mirror" section on the forum. Maybe some in
the "stopping suboxone" section also. There are a lot of stories in there about what symptoms people had while
tapering and after jumping. Some people even used the threads as a journal of what they experienced. I can say
with confidence that the sneezing is DEFINITELY a sign of withdrawaling. EVERY time I ran out of my DOC, that
was the symptom that killed me. It wasn't like I sneezed a few more times than normal. I had FITS of sneezing
that seemed like they were going to kill me!! LOL! I have no idea how long that is going to last though.

I am sure that someone else is going to come along and share their experience with you. We have some members that
just jumped without a taper and are here to talk about it. Romeo did, and he is actually doing VERY WELL!!

Good luck to you, and I truly hope that you start to feel more like yourself here soon. I know what it's like to have
children and want to get your ass in gear and be a productive, and involved parent. Feel free to post as often
as you need to. We are all here for you! Take Care~And again~WELCOME!!!!![/font]

_________________
"All great changes are preceded by chaos."
~Deepak Chopra


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:22 am 
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Hello just to give you some hope. I'm was on 16mg for 3 years, methadone for 1 year and heroin/Rx drugs for 6 years.. I went CT off 16mg. from what I've read I don't even think taper would've helped me... I'm on day 20 & I feel so much better. Still not 100% normal, but you just have to remember what normal was... I think you get used to jumping out of bed and working like their was no tomorrow, at least that's how i was.. Man I've slowed down and this is how it used to be.... The worst is over in 10days after that days will start to roll by again... suboxone is really not that bad compared to methadone... I didnt make it coming off methadone..... Its really not that bad, hang in there you can do it.. Congratulations!!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:28 pm 
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Hey derail,

Welcome to the forum!!!

First thing I want to say is that Suboxone wd seems to be notoriously individualized. Sure, there are certain hallmarks that we all go through, to some extent or another, but it's extremely difficult to predict the severity and duration of one's wd symptoms.

I jumped off of Suboxone from a high dose when I was 42 years old also. I spent a little more time on opiates and then Suboxone than you did, but I'd imagine we both wonkified (10 points for me, I made a new word!!) our brains to a similar extent.

I'll try to go through your questions one by one and answer what I can.

#1---Yes, the sneezing is part of wd's. None of us seem to understand why Suboxone wd produces such weird sneezing fits, but it does. If memory serves, my sneezing seemed to improve around the one month? When I say it improved, it didn't quit altogether, it just started to improve. My least favorite part of the sneezing was when it happened when I was eating, usually when I had a mouth full of food. :shock: . OK, maybe that was TMI. :lol:

#2---The worst of the cravings or the worst of the wd? The worst of the wd usually happens around day 10 or so. The worst of the cravings.....????.....I don't know about that one. During my wd, I really didn't have any cravings. To me, cravings meant going back on Suboxone and there was no chance in hell I was gonna do that. I had made it that far into my wd, suffered all the punishment I had, was still feeling like I had been hit by a train and there was no way I was starting that process all over again. You asked when do you get to sleep again. Right at the one month mark, I started taking Clonidine, it's a blood pressure medication that's prescribed off label for opiate wd. It calms the Sympathetic Nervous System and it has a sedative effect. I went from sleeping 1 to 3 hours a night to 3 to 5 hours after getting on the Clonidine.

#3---Dude, if you're anything like me, be careful what you wish for. My "sexual" desires came SCREAMING back not too, too long after getting off of Suboxone. I mean those suckers flew right past normal and kept on going.....and going....and going. They stayed extremely high for a long time.....hell, they're probably still not back to normal and I've been off Suboxone for over 2 years now. I swear, I felt like I was 17 years old again. These days, I guess I feel like I'm 19. lol

#4---Yes, you will feel "normal" again, it takes a while for our brains to heal, but they do heal. I know when I was where you were at I was scared shitless that I would never be "normal" again. But I'm here to tell you that you will get better, it is gonna take time, though. I know, bummer, eh?

#5---I had chronic pain too. I had fell out of a tree from 25 ft up. The fall didn't bother me at all, it was hitting the frickin' ground that got me!! I crushed both ankles, broke both legs and broke my left arm.....not a good day. Anyway, my pain all basically disappeared when I got OFF of Suboxone. I believe I had "opioid induced hyperagesia", that's basically where long term opiate use makes you hypersensitive to pain. It took a few months off of Suboxone to notice my pain was going away, but it did go away. Also, nowadays, when I do overdo it and cause my ankles to bitch at me, Advil knocks the pain out completely. While on opiates, Advil didn't do squat for me, but it does now!!

#6---You got me on that one? Never heard of it before.

#7---Yes, it ends, but I can't tell ya when. You're about 30 days out, the worst is certainly over, but you feel like you're dragging a boat anchor around everywhere you go for a little while still. Your brain basically has to learn how to do its job again. This takes time.

#8---So, you want to restore your balance. I think meditation, yoga and Tai Chi are all good, but you may want to look into some kind of recovery too. NA/AA/SMART recovery.

#9---Yes, there is a normal after opiates, it just takes time (I bet you're sick and tired of hearing me say that, aren't ya!! LOL. But it's true). While on opiates, we basically rewired our brains.....in a crappy way. Now, your brain is having to rewire itself and guess what.....it takes time!! :D . The rewiring process, in my opinion, can maybe be sped up with some type of recovery work. Just waiting around for it to get better pretty much guarantees that it'll take a LONG time to get better. Know what I mean?

Good job on running the soccer field with your boys. Get out, get active, get those endorphins flowing and get back into life, this will help you tremendously as you continue on your journey.

Best of luck to ya and remember, don't give up, don't EVER give up!!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:23 pm 
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Not only do I want to thank everyone for your words of encouragement, I would also like to say that all of the freaky fate and destiny bells are going off in my head. 24 hours ago, I thought I was just dealing with a shitty allergy and I thought I was alone. Now I know both were wrong! The knowledge that everything I have been experiencing is normal, has been more than liberating! I feel much less despair than I did even yesterday. Romeo, thanks for all of the info! As for me, I have not been completely haphazard with this whole process. I started some intense counseling the day that i started suboxone, at least I knew i needed to lose some of the baggage. All of the anger, resentment, and sorrow are my triggers. Allowing myself to go through the emotions and deal with the last 25 years of grief is doing me more good than I had allowed myself to even hope for. After all, my addictions truly stem from all of the emotional baggage, not from the pill itself. The pill just made all of the garbage easier to ignore. I am soooooo tired, but getting stronger and better everyday. Cant wait for the libido to kick back in! Not sure wife feels the same so she better look out! Thanx again...D


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:59 pm 
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I'm glad you're feeling better, man. It's always nice to know we're not alone.

I'm SO glad that you got your butt into counseling, that's super!!! Like you said, drugs are only a symptom of our true problem. Getting to the root of why we used and learning to deal with that crap in a healthy way is key.

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