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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:50 am 
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Qualification -- 52 year old long term oxycodone user. Went on subs in April of 2013, 16 mgs per day. Dialed that down to 8 by year end and then 4 by February, and jumped off on March 14. Yes, yes, I've been told by my doctor and therapist that that's too high a jumping off point but what's done is done. I'm not going back. The problem is I'd appreciate some input from someone who's been where I am now. I cannot discuss this in my AA meetings because for many in the room, suboxone is a toxic discussion. Cannot discuss in NA because everyone in the NA rooms in my area are young enough to be my children.

So here I am, suffering in silence. Nauseous all the time, my right foot seems to want to fall asleep every time I sit down. I suppose it's a sort of "restless leg symdrom", but whatever it is, it makes it nearly impossible for me to relax. I went to the gym three times last week and went through my old routine at 50% and it damn near killed me.

Worst of all I think is the depression and self-loathing that has set in. This was not uncommon in day three of a regular opiate wd, but I always knew that only lasted a day. This has been going on for several days now and has been getting more intense over the last two days. Been sitting around today dwelling on the fact that (financially speaking) I'm worth more dead than alive and I have no energy to do anything. Even writing this has been a chore.

Input welcomed.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:01 pm 
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At 2 weeks you are right in the worst of it. I wish I could say it's a fast process but it takes some time for your body to heal. Just remember that if you start using again you will have to go through the last two weeks all over again. You have made it this far and should be proud of yourself.

It does get better. I'm at day 44 and still having issues. But nothing I can't deal with because the worst is behind me. If you really want to get off of them it can be done. It wont be easy but it will be worth it.

You will go through depression from two weeks to about day 20. It's different for everybody but that's what I experienced. I stopped being depressed when I realized that my brain was healing and I needed to force it to think good thoughts. I've had my bad days but since day 20 when I just had enough of being depressed, I've been pretty happy.

Take it slow and this can be fixed.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:57 pm 
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Hey jmcn, I'm so sorry that you're suffering and especially that you are feeling depression and self-loathing. I remember that feeling from when I was in active use (when I wasn't high of course) and it's so debilitating.

Rizob is right! It will get better! You are going through the worst of it now, but things will improve. If the depression is too overwhelming I would suggest that you talk to your doctor about trying an anti-depressant, at least for the short term.

I'm glad to hear that you are active in AA and NA, even if they're not ideal. Since you're off sub you need a way to focus on your recovery so that you are less likely to relapse. I wish you well!

Feel free to continue updating us! Some folks here don't think that going off sub is a great idea, but we still support you and wish you the best!

Amy

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:00 pm 
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I know you already mentioned you know 8mg is a high jumping point but that honestly is a big part of why you still feel so crappy. Tapering can be tedious and sometimes seems like its better to just take the plunge but Ive learned thats not the way to go for me anyway. If you would of done a slow steady taper and not rushed things and jumped at say .5mgs or some pepole go even as low as .25mgs and lower then you would of had a much softer landing so to speak. Liquid taper IMO is truly the only way to go when it comes to subs. 20 individual drops out of a visine type bottle or nasal spray bottle etc. equals close to exactly 1ml so if you dose is say 2mgs a day dissolve it into that 1ml and then every drop equals 100 micrograms of bupe. Dropping your dose by one little droplet at a time (not necessary to taper that slowly until you get down to under 4mgs IMO) and waiting to adjust to that dose makes the difference between "Im never gonna make it through this, I destroyed my receptors and will never be happy again" to "Im miserable right now and want to feel better but I can do this and i know eventually I'll start to feel normal again." Tapering is worth the effort even though it can be trying at times.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:24 pm 
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Yes, I know that I should have tapered to a lower dose, but I was too impatient to be off the suboxone. The previous response mentioned how some don't believe in going off subs. I won't make any general comment on that -- to each his own. I needed to be off it. The cost was prohibitive (insurance will not cover) and I was getting tired of the side-effects, i.e. -- zero interest, I mean ZERO interest in sex, nodding off in my office and the overall lethargy the drug induced in me. I can only speak for myself, but I can't say that I have great things to say about suboxone. I was put on it AFTER I had gone through the w/d at the time. So then I was put on another addictive substance which had serious side effects and withdrawal that in many ways was far worse than I ever experienced when I got high because I never got high for more than 2-3 weeks, so I was never deeply addicted to the oxy's.

I don't know. It all seems like it has not been worth it.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:31 pm 
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I was just trying to point out that no matter what peoples' personal views are about suboxone, we are a community that tries to support everyone where they are. I wasn't trying to start a debate at all.

We are all addicts here, and we need to stand with each other, even when we have differences of opinion. I really do think that your withdrawal symptoms have peaked and that you're headed for much better days. :)

Amy

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:41 am 
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The taper method does seem to be the best way. I jumped off at 4mg sometimes 8mg. It was definitely easier then when I tried to jump off at 16mg. That time I was still sick 3 months out! I lost my job and couldn't afford them anymore. So taper wasn't an option.

If you are really feeling bad and can't deal with life then an option is to go back to a low dose and taper even farther. When I jumped from 16mg I lasted 3 months then decided to take a lower dose when I went back on. So I started with 8mg. I had to go to school that night. I ended up in a parking lot half way to school, throwing up and nodding out with my head feeling like it was going to explode. I had to sleep there for a few hours until I was able to drive home! That's when I realized just how strong bupe is. I took 16mg for years! If you are going to go back on start at a very low dose.

So if you do go back first of all don't feel defeated. A solid taper is not giving up. But at the same time if you do go back I can guarantee you with 100% certainty that you will feel like crap again when you try to jump the next time. Even though it may be less it will still be there. I can also promise you that if you stick with what you are doing now that it will get better. You will never have to go through the first few weeks of withdrawal ever again if you don't want to.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:19 am 
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jmcn53 wrote:
Yes, I know that I should have tapered to a lower dose, but I was too impatient to be off the suboxone. The previous response mentioned how some don't believe in going off subs. I won't make any general comment on that -- to each his own. I needed to be off it. The cost was prohibitive (insurance will not cover) and I was getting tired of the side-effects, i.e. -- zero interest, I mean ZERO interest in sex, nodding off in my office and the overall lethargy the drug induced in me. I can only speak for myself, but I can't say that I have great things to say about suboxone. I was put on it AFTER I had gone through the w/d at the time. So then I was put on another addictive substance which had serious side effects and withdrawal that in many ways was far worse than I ever experienced when I got high because I never got high for more than 2-3 weeks, so I was never deeply addicted to the oxy's.

I don't know. It all seems like it has not been worth it.

I thought you were a genuine poster who was asking for guidance but now Im not so sure, It seems to me like you have some kind of anti sub agenda and are trying to slyly do it so you don't get banned for blatant trolling. I was with you until the nodding out in your office part because no one nods off from subs once they are completely tolerant to it and on maintenance. If by "nodding off" you mean you get a bit sleepy then I stand corrected but if you meaning drug induced euphoric nodding in and out of consciousness then sorry Im not buying it because its physically impossible to a person who says they've been taking sub for a year. And if you aren't a troll maybe you need an attitude adjustment at the very least because you come on here with a thread title of "2 weeks of misery thoughts appreciated" asking why you still feel so shitty at 2 weeks in and when people tell you the reason you just are like "yeah yeah I already knew I should of done that" and then have a snide tone to another poster offering their advice so I don't get why you asked the question in the first place if you didn't want honest answers.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:04 pm 
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Buprecision, I think jmcn53 was just telling you their story. They weren't putting anyone down for being on bupe. It just didn't work for them. It's definitely possible to nod out from bupe. I would do it on the way home from work every day while driving. Probably for the first few years I took it. That's when I was on a high dose. Once I reduced my dose and now stopped I haven't had that issue.

Drugs do not effect everyone the same. That's one of the bad parts of them. Once you reduce or stop your dose you realize just how powerful of a drug it is and you realize what it was doing to your body. Some people don't have the means to get a constant supply of bupe. That will make them constantly sick just like when on other drugs. So their experience is not as good as yours.

Everyone has their own story. No one was putting bupe down. It's a good thing for many people. Just not for everyone. Maybe one day you will realize it's not for you anymore and understand the story jmcn53 told. Or maybe you will use it for maintenance and be happy. That's your choice and I believe everyone on here supports you no matter what your decision.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:12 am 
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Believe me I know bupe for life isn't for me and I'm not trying to push it on anyone else I think there is just a misunderstanding of the word nodding i think. Benadryl can make you drowsy and sort nod/doze off but its not euphoric or recreational, thats the only type of nodding off (more like dozing off) a fully tolerant maintenance patient is gonna feel if they ever do at all. Thats how I would describe it when I doze off from bupe, its nothing like nodding from heroin or morphine is all Im trying to get across. Now what you said about people now being able to afford a steady supply to keep there levels up thats true but its not relevant when where talking about legitimate patients who follow the rules as and take there dose as Rx'd


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:30 am 
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Sometimes legitimate patients can't get the medication they need. I'm a perfect example. Over the past few years I've worked for two different companies and work slowed down for both of them. When you are trying to survive Bupe ends up a low priority on the list. Especially when you don't have insurance. And around my area a script of suboxone is around $600 a month. Not to mention the doctor visit charge. It was still cheaper than the alternative but still a very expensive habit.

I went through withdrawal many times because I couldn't afford my script. Then finally I realized that I just didn't make enough money to be on Bupe. I have to say it was one of the best choices I've ever made. I got a steady job now and my money is going to things that really matter. It's nice having an extra $700 a month. That's a rent payment that I was spending on Bupe every month! When I had insurance it wasn't bad. Although I'm glad I lost my insurance because it forced me down the path that I really wanted to go but was just too "comfortable" to start the journey.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:44 am 
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JMCN53, I'm sorry that you are having a rought time.. That is hard, I also understand just wanting to be done and over it. It sounds to me like you were saying you already knew that maybe tapering would of been easier so I'm not going to say you should have done that. What I am going to say is Good Luck!! And I hope things start looking better for you. This is a great place for support and I hope you are sticking around.

As far as the nodding off comment, I can honestly say I have done that many times driving home from work and being on the same dose for a very long time. I actually starting to worry that I had developed sleep apnea because I am only 31 and here I'm falling asleep at my desk at work, (Yes i fell asleep) and when I would stop at a red light my eyes would want to close. I started drinking energy drinks so much that now is yet another addiction I'm trying to kick. I had pulled over once and actually closed my eyes to sleep and I was ten mins from home. I was scared to death I was going to get in an accident. I was only on 2 mgs at the time too.. For some reason that med does that to me from time to time so I can honestly believe that he is having the same problems as I do. Everyone is different. I think he was just sharing his problems and looking for some encourgaement from the board.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:59 am 
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How has it been going jmcn53? Feeling any better?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:41 pm 
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If you jumped at 8mg your body should be free of bupe so it's trying to heal itself.
You may have hit a bigger dip on the down-side but once it's out of your body it'll start to try to reset itself.
I jumped at 8mg every other day.By day 5-6 I started having wd symptoms like methadone just not as painful.RLS and anxiety bother me the most but I get RLS and anxiety even while on bupe I just don't feel it so much?
After 45 days I found a qty of 10 2mg tablet script of bupe in my dresser I didn't get filled.
I took 1mg it didn't help RLS another 1mg still no relief on RLS.I got a huge bunch of energy but no relief with RLS.I never had RLS until I took bupe.
.


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