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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:38 am 
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I was on suboxone for a year and a half (roughly) which confuses me because I remember telling my doc "there's no way I'm going to do this shit for a long period of time" obviously I lied ... I was just cruising the suboxone boat to be honest until I literally got sick of putting the strip under my tongue ... Like literally sick if I went to put sub under my tongue I would get nauseous and the docs were saying since I was still at 4mg's I still had at least 6 mo's of treatment to undergo ...

this is when I said "F You docs watch me work" looked up every withdrawal remedy from clonidine to kratom .. Kratom being last because I always read it gave you "similar effects of an opiate" I was thinking that couldn't be good for recovery because getting "similar effects" would probably urge me to use again ... Buttt I gave in like day 4 of sub withdrawal (it started to get intense) and went to the head shop around the corner to see if my homeboy sells it and sure enough he did .. Bags of like 35 capsules for 25$ I got one, I discussed it with him all he could tell me was "your going to love this shit man .. Its great yo blah blah it's even better if you combine it with OTHER things" that's the info I was given by the friendly neighborhood pipe man .. Of course I didn't tell him my reason for using kratom as still half of my friends don't know I went through addiction (how? Good question either them people were high with me or just blind) and the "recommended dose" on the bag said 1-4 capsules .. So I went at it thinking okay if fours the max you should do... I'm going to do 5 did 5 immediately..30 mins later the WD symptoms were gone which was not only a shock but this mysterious herb or whatever it may be also gave me crazy amounts of energy not only was I no longer sick but I was motivated to do... Something.. I ended up taking Kratom 5 caps in morning 5 caps after work at 430 for about a week and a half period then decided to stop using kratom when I realized that it was making my eyes look like I was at it again ...

One week clean of EVERYTHING (by everything I mean I was on benzos prescribed by the sub doc and decided to stop them as well) 3 weeks today clean of suboxone ...

Now I still experience slight withdrawal, not enough to use again but just enough withdrawal to annoy the shit out of me... I havnt told the suboxone doc or even think I will because I don't want him taking credit over my sobriety after his goal was obv. To keep the $150 coming in every month .. My suboxone doc and I never had real conversations he began treatment with downing the **** out of me trying to tell me "I know this wont be successful" etc. etc. as much as I want to be like "Aye.. I volunteer for a UA kind sir" I don't want to give this doctor the satisfaction in thinking he did anything more for me than write suboxone 8/2 and alprazolam 2mg on a piece of paper for me monthly (our visits lasted 5 possibly 10 minutes ... We're suppose to include "suboxone meetings" with the other patients but they never occurred he gave me a phone number to talk suboxone with a rep from recite beckinseer but I never called because I'm a person who looks at the bigger picture of things.. How does it help RB to get their patients off of a drug, when they can just continue to tell them "if you stop now there's a 99% chance of relapse" scare patients into continuing treatment until there.. Stuck

I guess I'm in that 1% that doesn't because simply, I havnt... I havnt even had any cravings to be honest reading researching and reviewing suboxone turned me against suboxone as well as most other pharmaceuticals and the control doctors possess over people now adays , just ... Disgusted me ..


Now in coming off suboxone I realize (simply from my performance at work) it slowed me down immensely, left me in a sort of "haze" that I would consider comparable to MMT for me at least.. Now everything seems to taste better now, things are more clear to me now than ever and sobriety is like a drug itself once you've tried EVERY "way out" of opiates . It's wild in the mornings with nothing to stick under my tongue and wait to dissolve .. I feel myself waking up with extreme anxiety and the need to get away from the room in which I abused drugs and did suboxone for years (6 to be exact) ... I tell myself ill never return to opiates even if I'm involved in a car accident or such of the sort but I know I could probably get pulled into them again pretty easily if I allowed myself to .. But with street prices where their at now (and I only know because I still have friends suffering addiction all in which I've bought kratom for just for the simple fact I am shocked that this bullshit they had in a head shop worked so incredibly for suboxone withdrawal I figure it must be the same for users .. I guess I'm wrong because one of the three friends I introduced to kratom actually followed through with it for a week long period and then quit the stupid shit ... The other two both claimed "it doesn't work" but its the same brand and everything .. I don't see how it doesn't work for them but it worked wonders for me which leads me into the "for the most part it's mental" .. I used to say "the F its mental if I could tell my brain to stop my legs from aching and the hot/cold flashes it wouldn't be an issue" .. But have learned that yeah most of it was in my head ...

I've read that suboxone withdrawals can last up to a month Today marks 3 weeks clean of opiates/opioids whichever and though I feel somewhat shitty if SEEMS as if its going away .. But then my sister tells me someone she was in prison with came off sub and the WD supposedly lasted for 3 months.. I personally don't see how that could occur or personally see any logic in that but I'm preparing for the worst if all else fails the head shop is on my way to work every day I can always stop in and get a bag of Kratom thus far its not necessary.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:46 am 
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well I really praise you for the last three weeks....

I mean my hat's off to you, that's for sure!!!

while your story may not be the 'norm' it's one that I know at least I've heard from time to time... and it really depends on what dose a person "jumps" from. I think you were at least at a half way descent spot, for that.....


I don't know if in your opinion your last three weeks has been relatively "easy" if it has, that's GREAT.
but also, remember why you started subs in the first place, and
maybe try and think of something, well anything you might be able to do
to help stave off any "future" issues you may have.

I've also heard some horror stories about kratom,,,,, I'm GLAD it seemed to work for you, I'm glad you didn't have to take much, either.
I remember reading on here, about someone eating like tablespoons full of the stuff....

Anyway,,,
every single one of us is coming from a different "place"
every one of us is battling a very different (in it's own way) addiction ,,
I like to call it my "dark side"
LOL
for me,,,,,
I actually feel (and have shown) my life to be very much improved on subs.
so, I'm really in NO hurry to be off, anytime soon. Now that I'm on the generic it's a hell of alot cheaper too. before my life was completely turned upside down last january,,, I was down to 4mg twice a day.
Now, of course I'm back UP to 12, and sometimes 16. but I'm not ashamed of that. it's what works for me. coming from sleeping in my car, not holding a job for years, being an IV user, ETC ETC.
I'd say I'm doing pretty damn good. Both my dr. and addiction therapist constantly remind me, anyone who wants to tell me "how to do things"
can try walking in my shoes for one single day....
IF they make it, then they can tell me all about it. (how they would do things differently)

In closing,,
I hope things continue to go well for you. hopefully you can come up with a series of "back up" plans, just in case you need them..... (you never know WHAT will happen tomorrow!!!)

BEST OF LUCK, friend

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:42 am 
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Hi there Jae,

I'm quite impressed with your commitment to quitting suboxone. I agree with Amber, your story is definitely rare, if not unique.

As for the use of Kratom, I just wanted to mention that I think this is kind of on par with using any other SAO to get through suboxone withdrawal. Can it be effective, you betcha. But I also think that it can be very dangerous for most addicts. The temptation would be to keep using it after the WD is over. And I think in general, people might have a hard time realizing it's not a great thing to continue. Even if it is touted to be a "natural opiate" it's still an opiate.

I agree, it's effective. I have used it before when I was enduring WD from hydrocodone, but I found that my tolerance to it escalated even faster than with other SAO's and the relief from WD only lasted about an hour or two. It wasn't long before I was chugging that crap down several times a day just to stay well...not my cup of tea. (forgive the pun)

All in all though, it sounds like you were able to use it to get through the worst of your acute WD and aren't stuck in the cycle of it. That's great for you! I just felt the need to warn anyone else who might be reading this that it can definitely lead back to other, stronger opiates.

Good luck with your continued recovery Jae! And welcome to the forum!

Q

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Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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