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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:37 pm 
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Hello everyone. This is my first post, although I have been lurking and reading for a bit.
Short version of my story: 12 years ago was arrested for stealing narcotics. I was using 80 mg morphine per day in 4 IV doses. I cold turkeyed off of that & went to residential rehab for nearly 60 days. Was a staunch 12 step member for 9 years. Then 2 years ago my long term depression came back in the form of horrendous cravings to use again. I gave in and used but was horrified at what I had done and went to my shrink saying WTF and now what?
He told me that my prozac had quit working and we began trials of new antidepressants. I am stable now on 15 mg Lexapro. He also started me on suboxone to stop the cravings and as an antidepressant - I began at 2mg a day. Remember I had been opiate free for 9 years, except for a few percocets in my brief relapse. My script was for a total of 8 mg a day. I fooled around with doses for about a year and then stabilized at 6 mg.
BUT HERE"S THE STUPID PART: on the weekends I would use 14-24 mg of subs just to feel good. Oy vey, I know how dumb that was. I confessed to my doc and he said as long as you aren't running out of your script early it's cool :roll:.
Fast forward to past couple of months. I am sick and tired of my sub side effects - no libido, and no orgasms even when we try. My poor husband! I have gained 40 pounds in 2 years - definitely not solely suboxone's fault but I think it's contributed. I have had swelling in my hands and feet since I began the subs, and am tired of it. I'm also tired of my general all around feeling of blah with no motivation. My house is filthy and I'm sick of this!
So my doc and I have agreed it's time to quit. I have gotten good ideas here and from reading other places. What I have done is I have stuck solely to 6 mg for the past two weeks - no increased dose on the weekend. I have had very slight tummy queasiness that goes away with my daily 6 mg dose.
On Tuesday Feb 16 I dropped to 5 mg /day. Plan is to stay here for a month. Basically the plan is to drop 1mg/per month then do .5mg/month, then .25/month and then the liquid taper to get off. I know about that long half life of Sub, and I'm happy that I haven't felt anything yet from my drop to 5. I suspect I may feel punk over the weekend - we'll see. I'm trying to clear my head of expectations.
I'm really motivated for the first time since I started subs. I had a disastrous rapid and brief dose reduction 9 months ago for some minor surgery. But this time I'm going slowly.
I hope to keep posting every few days to share how I'm feeling and how it's going and to answer any questions. I'm happy to have found a NEUTRAL suboxone community, and I look forward to getting to know ya'll.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:44 pm 
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Hey Xonedone:

I'm very excited to see that you got the courage up to post on here.. and thank you for giving us a brief history of what has been going on. It will really assist in the answers you get from the rest of us on here.

Subs for me, typically made me feel normal and I could maintain at 2mg, but always liked to sit around 4mg... though I really never noticed any WD from droping from 2mg ... though if I dropped below 2mg I started to feel slight WD symptoms.

Here is my theory, because I have gone cold turkey off opiates twice before my last detox/recovery which I'm currently still in. If you taper down your dosages you will feel WDs, but they will be nothing compared to going cold turkey.. It gives your body a chance to adjust to the different dosages.

If 1mg drop is too much for you then try a .5 drop and so forth, the goal is to make it as easy as possible and since you have a doctor and a sub prescription the real power is in your hands for a soft landing. I'm not sugar coating anything, you're going to hurt, its going to suck, you're not going to sleep for awhile very well, but it will get better, I PROMISE.

A lot of people mention PAWS and so forth, but I think that all really depends on your attitude... I think we live in such a fog sometimes that we blur what is real and what is not, I know I sure did. So when we finally get past the big hump of the acute WD which we feel 48-72 hours after our last small dose of sub it starts to get better.

I've been clean now for 6 days and I'm feeling pretty good.. I do feel pretty achy in the morning, but nothing a little ibuprofen can't fix and a lot of good stretching and exercise helps those aches and pains.. I just welcome those things as a thought of, hey I'm clean, I don't have to rely on anything!

You know sometimes we live on opiates so long that we are so much in cloud 9 we forget what pain feels like... and now it's kind of refreshing not always living in a false sense. Though with a lot of work and some good people on your side like your family, doctor, etc, you will make it!

Keep posting on here your progress, and when you get down to .5mg and .25mg you should really try to post as much... then we can come back here and read our responses.. and see why we quit in the first place.

Glad your here.. and look forward to answering any questions you have.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:36 pm 
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Thanks, gubulars.
Today, Saturday I awoke nauseated with diarrhea, and because I had things I had to do, I split my 5 mg - took 2 in the morning & just finished the other 3mg. I'm hoping tomorrow if I wake feeling yucky I can wait through it. Have told all my family members that I'm doing this and I have lots of support.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:57 pm 
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Good news: Sat I was nauseated & split my dose. Sun woke mildly nauseated and was able to wait it out (I usually take my sub midday for work schedule reasons). Monday, my 6th day on 5 mg down from 6, I HAD NO SIDE EFFECTS AT ALL, YAY!!! :D
Now of course my foolish brain thinks, OK, I'm at day 8 on 5 mg, maybe instead of waiting a month on this dose I should drop to 4 mg/day now. I'm really eager to get off, but I do NOT want to sabotage myself.
I will take 5mg today, but hope and wish I can hear from other taperers if they had this self talk too ("GO FASTER! GO FASTER!!"), and what you did about it.
Thanks!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:57 pm 
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Take your time... there's no hurry. Feel what your body is telling you and respond accordingly.

You're doing fine and can accomplish what ever you choose!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:50 pm 
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So it's been three + weeks since my drop from 6 to 5. Other than the mild nausea I had at day 4&5, I have done really well.
Today I drop to 4mg. It feels right; I was feeling really fuzzy last night - has anyone else noticed an actual increase in the effects of subs as they go lower? I sure have noticed an increased fuzziness - not euphoria but noticeable drug effect on the 5 mg. At any rate, I decided last night enough of this needing 16 ounces of coffee to start my shift :lol: . I melt at 2pm because I work 3-11 and that has worked out to be the best timing.
4 mg, here I come!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:35 pm 
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Question for Dr J or other taperers:
Does anyone know if the interval between dropping your sub dose and developing symptoms shortens as you get to lower doses?
I feel drops in my dose at 4 days out from the drop. I am wondering as I get down to 2mg going to 1 mg, will I start feeling symptoms at 2-3 days rather than 4? Or will it always stay at 4 because of the 37 hour half life?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:42 pm 
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Sunday, March 7. Have noticed a mild-moderate headache every day on 4 mg. It does go away when I take my 4 mg (down from 6-5-now 4). Think it's weird because I never had a headache when I stated subs. :roll:
Yesterday, at 3d 22 min I had an hour worth of yawning, squirrely tummy, sweating and the sense that my dose was late. It stopped on its own, happily. This morning, other than the headache, which just came on about 5 hours after I woke up, I'm doing pretty well on day 4+ of 4 mg.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:06 pm 
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Are you still doing OK on the 4mg? How about the headaches?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:38 am 
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Good news. I stayed on the 4 mg until March 30, and dropped to 3 mg then. Have had no side effects from the drop from 4 to 3mg, other than slightly loose bowels (TMI, I know 8) ). I'm pleased with my progress.
I leave in 2 days (the 9th) to spend a long weekend with my daughter, SIL and Grandson. If all continues to go well on three mg, I hope to drop to 2 mg on the 12th and begin the serious part of suboxone withdrawal.
My doc and family continue supportive. I'm pretty certain my doc will give me clonidine if I get wicked restless legs (I have had that in the past).
My biggest fear is of worsening depression. I am under control on Lexapro 15 mg (I chop my pills up). I am hoping against hope that I will be able to do this wean to & beyond zero without missing any work, so slow is the word.
Hope all is well with everyone here....


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:13 pm 
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Hello again!
I briefly messed up my taper with 2 weekend sprees at 4 mg. It started with my trying to drop to 2mg after only about 7-8 days on 3mg. I did so well with the 4-3 drop I thought I'd try dropping to 2 earlier. I felt honest to God WD symptoms a few days after the drop and I overcompensated by taking 4mg. My thought was I suffered at 2 I deserve to feel "good", so I took 4 mg instead of 3. Each of those was an attempt to get high. This has made me look harder at my situation vis a vis stopping suboxone altogether.
Fortunately I have not suffered physically from the bumps up. I am back on 3 mg and mentally & physically doing well.
The main reason behind wanting to stop subs is an attempt to regain my libido. I am a 56 y/o female, and in addition to subs as I said in my last post, I am taking lexapro, which is notorious along with all the other SSRI antidepressants as a libido killer. I really want that part of my life back! But I also want to be free of both suboxone and the desires to get high. Am I wanting too much? Don't know.
I plan on staying at 3 until I clearly feel like I'm ready to drop to 2.
I continue to read and learn here from all of you. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:52 pm 
Have you been on the Sub without the Lexapro? I am also on both and I'm trying to decide which one is the libido killer. Or is it both? Keep us posted.
Lilly


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:01 pm 
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Lilly - about a year ago I was very briefly off suboxone in a period when I was not on an SSRI (I had some minor surgery and did a rapid but awful wean off the sub). I did have a lovely strong libido for the brief time off sub, which is why I am so hopeful that coming off sub the right (low & slow) way will allow my libido to come back.
I was blessed to keep my libido during 20 years on prozac. i started the subs shortly after the prozac finally quit working for me. We tried a couple of different SNRI and SSRI's to find one that brought my mood to the right place, but my libido gradually faded away while I was on subs.
Interestingly, my libido was fine during my years of straight agonist use (oxycodone & IV morphine for me), so I really really don't know is it the subs, is it the SSRI, is it that I'm 56 & postmenopausal (although I do take hormone replacement therapy) or is it (most likely) the combo of all of the above.
I believe that if I find my libido does NOT return after I have been off sub for awhile, I will probably use low dose sub for even longer. I nearly lost everything including my life from my opioid/ opiate use and i don't ever want to get to that point again.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:15 pm 
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Just an FYI but Lexapro is quite notorious for the side effect of decreased libido. I have several recovering addict friends who are on it, both men and women, and they ALL report the same thing.

In the mean time, I've been on suboxone for 18+ months and the ONLY time it had the effect on me was when my dose was over 8mg. I'm on 4mg now and me and my wife are like a couple of rabbits, and I ain't no spring chicken :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:34 am 
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Quick note - I'm still here...
Have been having troubles sticking to 3 mg. I go a week, 10 days and then the demons in my head say take 4 mg.
This past weekend I did 4 mg for 4 days in a row, so I know I'm back to the drawing board and going back down to 3 mg today.
Have an appointment with my shrink/sub doc to discuss my crazed/addict brain, and the possibility that lexapro itself is adding to my no libido-as well as the fact that I'm 56 and post menopausal! :)
So right now,half my brain wants to stay at 4 and half wants to get off. Interesting conundrun.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:41 pm 
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Long time no share.....
My shrink/sub doc decided that he's certain it's the Lexapro I have been taking for the past couple of years that has knocked out my libido.
The way he put is was "2-3/10 people have libido and orgasm problems on Suboxone. However, 9/10 people lose their sex drive and their orgasm ability on Lexapro".
So I am weaning off Lexapro. Weaning at 2.5 mg/week, now halfway through my 5 mg week. Not as bad as coming off Cymbalta which was a trial for me. Coming off the L, I get headache and ringing in my ears. Coming off Cymbalta a couple of years ago I had awful vertigo, missed a couple of days work because I couldn't drive my car, I was so dizzy.
In my last post I mentioned my going back & forth on 4 mg Suboxone. My doc asked how were my cravings to use, and I noticed they were high on three. So he said stay steady on 4 mg Sub until I am about a month off Lexapro to let all its withdrawal symptoms subside.
As for anti depressants...I've been on an SSRI or and SNRI (don't work as well as the SSRI's) for 20+ years now.
I am finding my mood is soaring as I come off the Lexapro - not mania soaring, just feel happy. So I am hoping and praying that perhaps I can do some time without an antidepressant.
Wouldn't that be cool! :D


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