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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 10:38 pm 
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If I have been taking 10-12 of the 10mg lortab. how many mg of suboxone should i take to wean off the pills and for how many days should I take the suboxone so I will not get addicted to it?Please inform me of a scheduel. Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 10:57 pm 
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If you are hooked on vodka and switch to whiskey is there a difference?

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 Post subject: suboxone tapper
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 11:45 pm 
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I know a few friends that have done a four day taper with suboxone to come off a 10-10mg lortab a day habit and they said they didnt have any withdraw.They were saying that it works on different recepters in the brain so the hydrocodone recepters are freed and healing and the body is starting to produce its natural opiates again and by the time u stop using the suboxone by day 4 your good to go and you havent been taking the suboxone long enough to get dependent on it.Any input would be appreciated from anyone who has done this before. Thanks


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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 8:11 am 
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Hi Jeff and welcome,

I get the distinct impression that you are trying to do this alone, as in you want to be your own doctor. We don't advocate going about this without being under the care of a qualified doctor. And I have questions - how long have you been using opiates? Are you addicted to them (abusing them, getting them off the street, etc.) and not merely physically dependent? Are you trying to use suboxone to avoid opiate withdrawal and get "clean"? If so, once you stop what do you plan on doing to stay that way? The problem for most opiate addicts is not getting clean, it's staying clean - i.e., avoiding relapse. What do you plan on doing to address that very serious concern? Because make no mistake, opiate addiction kills, especially when people relapse, thinking their tolerance is as high as it used to be and they take too much. I'm just trying to point out that there are many things to consider.

As for opiate receptors, suboxone works on the same receptors as other pain meds/full agonist opiates. Again, if you're trying to reach a state of addiction remission, things are more complicated than merely taking 4 days of suboxone that you get off the street.

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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:11 am 
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Honestly, I don't think what you are doing will work. It may work short term but your chances of relapse are much greater. Why are you doing it like this and not under the care of a dr? Just curious. Good luck!


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 Post subject: Welcome to the Site
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 2:00 pm 
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Hi jeff571,
Welcome to what I think is the Best Forum on the Web. If you are an addict and trying to get Off & Stay Off of Opiates then you have come to the right place. :)

I don't want you to be confused though.... This is NOT a Drive thru Clinic or Drive thru pharmacy!!!! We or at least I don't recommend the amount & type of Drugs someone should take.... As others have said Suboxone is only one part of a complex situation called Addiction Remission!!! If you are having a problem with Opiates then I hope you get the Help & medication you need. From a Dr. Not your Buddy! This is something you should take very seriously..... Your life may depend on IT.!!!!
If you need some help getting started in the right direction then just ASK there are many people that are going thru the same thing that would love to help you!!!I wish you the best of luck!!!

God Bless
TW

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 Post subject: taper off pain pills
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 2:20 pm 
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Whats the protocol to taper off of 10-12 lortab 10mg a day using suboxone. Thank u for your help.


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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 2:26 pm 
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The learning curve to understanding addiction is a steep one. Addiction is a very complex disease that even the experts are still learning more about all of the time. You are clearly at the very early stages of this learning curve. If you are serious about finding out more information and getting help I'm pretty sure that the fine folks here can provide you with some information to get you headed in the right direction. However, it is going to take effort on your part. In fact, I often see posts like yours only to never hear back from the person again. Hopefully you'll return and provide some additional information and details about yourself and your situation. I hope that you'll return to provide that information so we can try to further help you. Unfortunately, it is not even close to as easy as "saying that it works on different receptors in the brain so the hydrocodone receptors are freed and healing and the body is starting to produce its natural opiates again and by the time u stop using the suboxone by day 4 your good to go and you haven’t been taking the suboxone long enough to get dependent on it." Nothing could be further from the truth. Hopefully you'll invest the time to find out the real facts of the disease of addiction that you seem to suffer from.


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 Post subject: taper
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 2:43 pm 
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The reason I am asking about the protocol is because my 2 friends I used to use with.Are now off the pain pills they both said they used suboxone for 4 day..4mg first day then 2mg the next 3 days and said after that they were good and now they have been off for about a month now.So I was wanting others opinions on this matter.


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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:26 pm 
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Jeff,

I know I responded to you already and as such I won't repeat what I've said above. I do want to explain, however, why I'm unwilling to give you prescribing advise (I can't speak for others). It would be extremely inappropriate for those of us who are not medical doctors to tell you how to take a medication that you got on the street. That said, I'm not trying to scare you off of this forum. Everyone here is working a healthy recovery program and are always willing to help others in a similar position. But suboxone is not intended to be used the way your are using it and I would hate say something to you that would make Dr. Junig - this sites administrator - liable for my non-medical advice. IF and WHEN suboxone is used for short term by doctors, it's still used for longer than what you're describing. More and more people like myself take suboxone long-term for maintenance.

Again, I don't want to give you the impression that I don't want you there. Indeed, I hope you'll stick around and tell us more about yourself and maybe some of us can help you through this.

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 Post subject: Re: taper
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:55 pm 
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jeff571 wrote:
The reason I am asking about the protocol is because my 2 friends I used to use with.Are now off the pain pills they both said they used suboxone for 4 day..4mg first day then 2mg the next 3 days and said after that they were good and now they have been off for about a month now.So I was wanting others opinions on this matter.


I am sure I have lost track of how many times I have "gotten off" pills for "a month" only to end up right back where I was. The problem was that there was no foundation. I hate to use a tired, worn out cliche, but I will anyway:

When you build a house, you start with forms and a concrete slab or a foundation. If the foundation is junk, the house will not remain standing for too long. The same applies to recovery from opiate addiction. If you are abusing opiate pain medication, using suboxone to rapidly taper off the pain pills is not a good approach if you wish to achieve long-term wellness. And given that you came here fairly misinformed (i.e. thinking that suboxone acts on different receptors than other opiates and that while taking suboxone for 96 hours that your other receptors are going to somehow magically heal themselves) I have a feeling that you're heading down a path that is going to inevitably result in relapse.

How could I possibly know this?

Because I've relapsed HUNDREDS of times over the last 20 to 25 years.

Why did I relapse so frequently?

Because I thought I knew what I was doing and that I could just handle it MY way.

It really wasn't until I realized that I don't really now much of anything, and that "MY way" was slowly but surely killing me, that was I FINALLY able to sincerely reach out for help and MORE IMPORTANTLY, accept that help when it was offered.

So, please understand that no one here is trying to rain on your parade, but if you're looking for medical advice on how to extricate yourself from the opiate addiction you are currently suffering from, your best course of action is going to be to consult a qualified physician. We will GLADLY keep chatting with you, but like hatmaker510 has already indicated, we're not doctors, so you're asking the wrong people for "protocols" and stuff like that.

Please don't mistake this for anyone not wanting to help you, I think we're all just kind of protective of the fine doctor who runs this site. None of us would want to put him in jeopardy by handing out medical advice, especially where none of us, to my knowledge, are doctors.

What I can tell you based on my own limited experience with suboxone is that plan of yours sounds like a recipe for relapse to be blunt. 4 days of suboxone and you think you'll be all set? Don't count on it. Please don't. Because you're probably just fooling yourself, and dangerously so. Addiction should be taken very seriously, like any other potentially fatal illness.

Is it possible for you to see a doctor about this problem? Is there any way you could do that?


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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:50 pm 
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Hi Jeff and Welcome to the forum.

I know exactly where you are. Looking for a silver bullet - I mean look - your friends did this and magically didn't get sick, etc.

Maybe it did happen that way. I always wanted to be the 'exception to the rule' too. Hell, we all do.

What we are all trying to say - is that this type of thinking ... needs some maturing. Don't you think if someone dependent on 100mg of hydrocodone per day - day in and day out for year(s) - could just take a few pills for a couple of days without any problems... everyone would do it?

Again, for every rule there are exceptions. It would be a bad idea to give you advice when the VAST majority of people can not be successful with that approach.

Good Luck to you. I hope, for your sake, you are the exception to the rule. Everyone wants to be that person.

If you find that you are not that person, I hope you come back here, learn a lot about addiction/remission and get really serious about sobriety.

--LD


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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 10:07 pm 
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Well, if your friends did it that way and it worked for them, then it sounds like you already have a good suggestion of what will work short term. I too would have to agree that depending on your situation, if you really want long term success, you may have to look at things a bit differently. But good luck with this. You never know.....you could always be the 1-2% who is done with this whole addiction thing forever and this is your last shot. But if not.....please come back....or better yet...stick around till you find out.

I am sure someone else could benefit from seeing what happens with this "experiment".

Cherie


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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:32 pm 
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Like I said - a huge learning curve. The good news is that you have already started on that curve since if you've read what has been written, you already know more than you did when you started. Let me see if I can add a few more things for you.

I'll start with this. It's sort of one of those good news/bad news situations. The good news is if you are already depended and/or addicted to hydrocodone, you DO NOT have to worry about becoming addicted/dependent on Suboxone. That's the good news. Unfortunately the bad news is, you don't have to worry because you already are addicted/dependant on Suboxone. How can that be if you've never taken it before? The reason is if your brain/body is addicted to one flavor/brand of opiate, you are addicted to all of them. That's just how it works. That's why an alcoholic can't have a problem with brandy but not with gin. An opiate is an opiate is an opiate. The differences come in how strong they are, how long they last, etc. But if you are addicted to hydro, you are addicted to all opiates - end of story.

So why even use Suboxone then? There are many reasons for this and they have to do with the chemical make up of Suboxone. Speaking in very general terms Suboxone does several things. It will keep you from going into withdrawal. It will keep you from getting high on pretty much any other opiate. It will keep you from craving opiates. Again, speaking in very general terms, the medication is used to detox or remove someone from the opiates they are currently taking. This is generally done over a week to about a month. The other general use is for maintenance. Since Suboxone will not get you high (other than in a few select situations and for a limited amount of time), will not need to take increasing amounts to work over time, is safer than most other opiates, and will typically put addiction into remission, it is often used over a long period of time - sort of like an anti-depressant. Anti-depressants are generally intended to be used for six months to a year or two while the person works on putting other aspects of their life back in order. As they work on these other issues, they then often stop the medication after time. Many people do the same with Suboxone. While on Subs, they work on other aspects of recovering. Then, after all of those are addressed, they may stop the medication. However, just like some people are on AD medication for a long time - perhaps life, the same is with Suboxone.

See what I mean about the learning curve? And we are still just scratching the surface. Hopefully you are starting to see how complex all of this is. I so much wish it were as easy as taking the "magic" Suboxone tablet for three or four days and all is well - but that just is not the case.

Keep reading. Keep learning. Keep working at getting into recovery. The good news is, you can do it. It can most certainly be done. It just will not happen in four days.


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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 9:50 am 
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This hit close to home because like you my habit was 10 lortabs a day give or take. I thought if I can just get through the withdrawal I will be fine. I relapsed within 3 months of "being clean". I had absolutely no drugs in my system but I was a ticking time bomb. Most people don't even make it that long unfortunately. So from my own experience here goes....do I think the taper you describe would work knowing what a 10 a day lortab habit was and my experience with suboxone ..no. I think you would not avoid withdrawal symptoms which seems to be what you are asking. Everyone is different but I know I would have had withdrawal if I had done the same plan. I would be suprised if that really worked for your friends.

As the others have said there is no quick fix to our problems. I have now been on suboxone for a little over a year. I feel I now have a fighting chance. Listen to the others advice. If you want to try suboxone find a legitimate doctor to work with you. It gave me my life back. I wish I could tell you I think that's a great idea, I wish I could say that would work. I wish it were that easy. You are welcome to pm me if you have any questions I will be glad to help if I can.

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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 11:36 am 
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You can escape the physical symptoms, but the psychological symptoms of addiction far surpass them. Suboxone in part was created to aid people with learning new non-addictive behaviors, giving one the time to invest in a better quality of life.
If you put a band aid on a gun shot wound, it isn't going to work- same principle. I hope you understand that investing in recovery support is essential to your overall success.

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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 4:48 pm 
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I continue to be extremely impressed with the support, knowledge, compassion and kindness of the people who post on this site.


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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 11:01 pm 
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"I continue to be extremely impressed with the support, knowledge, compassion and kindness of the people who post on this site."

It's too bad that it seems like jeff571 has not been back to take advantage of it. Are you still out there jeff571?


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 Post subject: hey
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 12:14 am 
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hey,
I have an appointment with physiciatrist.going to see how i should utilize the suboxone and I've been going to aa meethings.any other suggestion would be appreciated.


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 Post subject: Good Start
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:51 am 
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Hi Jeff,
That's great news that you are going to meetings AND that your are getting a Professional involved in your Disease...... Please be honest with your DR' as far as the type and amount of opiates you are taking. You have done the right thing by seeking help NOW continue to do the right thing by being Honest!!!! It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders..... USE IT! This Forum can be Very Helpful if you use it as a part of your Support But, I believe that for Recovery to have a real chance you need Counseling to go along with the Medication (Suboxone). In my case I am on 16 mgs. of Suboxone / day and I go to Counseling once a week as well as being here as much as possible... I also have a Dr. , a psychiatrist, and a therapist helping me keep this disease in Remission!!! But that is Just me everyone is different.. Please keep us posted as to your progress.. It sounds like you are really willing to get yourself Healthy and I wish you the best in doing So..... Take Care of Yourself!!!!

God Bless
TW

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