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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:08 am 
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I'm having way too many side effects. I had to go to Urgent Care Thursday afternoon because my swelling was terrible, plus, my vision was blurry, and my chest was tightening to tthe point I couldnt breathe. I starting panicking, was scared, and thought something was terribly wrong. Of course I was honest with the nurse when she asked me what medicines I had been taking, which are Wellbutrin, Suboxone 4mg a day(Dr. had prescribed 16mg a day which was waay to much) and 1 to 1.5mg of Xanax and I had taken a water pill that day and the day before(Lasix for the swelling). Im trying really hard to stop the Xanax all together but it's difficult. Once the Dr. at Urgent Care saw my mediciations, he didn't listen to a word I said. Tuned me out. He said and I quote, "Well excuse my language but I'm glad you're off that crap(Vicodin). It's gonna be rough these next few weeks, but you'll be ok". After I already told him I had taken Lasix that day and the day before, he said, "Best thing we can do is get you on some Lasix.". WTH? I was also nauseated all day and he said for me to prop my feet up and take a Phenergan for the nausea. Then sent me home, all the while I'm crying my eyes out.
Like I said, I'm taking a 1/4 a pill in the morning and and 1/4 in the late afternoon. I'm so constipated(sorry) that I've taken laxatives and an enema and neither one produced results, well results that I know needed to be produced!
So I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. I've been on Xanax much longer than pain pills, and surprisingly, they've been harder to kick than the pain pills. I hate feeling this way and my Sub doc is excuse me, just plain ignorant to the fact pertaining to Suboxone.
Could I jsut quit the Sub? I don't know two things. 1) If I'm strong enough or 2)if I'm going to go through bad w/d from the Sub. Today makes day 13. I'm really upset that Sub hasn't been this miracle drug that I had hoped it to be, for me at least. :cry:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:18 pm 
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Hi jin,

I'm sorry you're still having trouble. Why don't you try skipping the afternoon dose and just stick with the 2 mg in the morning. If that doesn't help then perhaps your body simply can't tolerate it. I'm not telling you to go off it or to stay on it. It's your decision. What you described with your chest/breathing sounds like a panic attack. I know it sounds corny, but have you tried meditation? And you're right about xanax being hard to get off. It's far more dangerous to withdraw from than opiates. So be careful. How fast or slow are you tapering off the xanax? Just curious. When I was taking xanax I was so addicted to it that because my dose wasn't going up along with my tolerance I was having withdrawals while I was still taking it.
If you decide to go off the sub I don't think anyone can say for sure if you'll have withdrawals, but you're on a low enough dose that you might be OK. Keep in mind I'm no doctor and this is all just my non-medical opinion.

Hang in there and keep us posted. Take care.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:13 pm 
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Hi Jin1997 -

I am not a doctor. I was on Xanax, and Klonipin when I started suboxone. My doctor had me taper off both klonipin and xanax. I have had a few issues with the taper, but I think it's important to note that I was on like .75mg of xanax, and .75mg of Klonipin. In both cases I tapered a dose change every couple of weeks. It took a while to get off of them that way - but it was small changes.

I did experience some anxiety, and stress (not quite panic attacks) - and this dose was not that high.

It sounds like you have multiple issues. For instance, Lasix? There is so much to be said there. It does help edema, but you have to be very careful about your potassium level. Often, lasix is balanced by taking another diuretic like spironolactone or similar. It also lowers your blood pressure, and you can actually become dehydrated - even though you are swollen.

If you were dependent upon vicodin, but doing OK... then typically you would be physically doing about the same with suboxone. You have to be careful not to take too much suboxone, and the suboxone dose is typically matched to your vicodin level. Your sub doctor should know the balance.

In my case, I was on over 100mg's of oxycodone / day (plus whatever else I could get) - and 12mg a day of suboxone (or even as low as 8mg) keep my symptoms at bay. That might give you an idea.

As for your question about getting off suboxone.... Depending upon how you approach it - it may be similar to vicodin. What I mean by that is - if you just stopped taking vicodin (cold turkey) - you would probably feel about the same (horrid) if you just stopped taking suboxone (cold turkey).

Given all you said, I agree with Hatmaker... I'd be wondering if your Xanax might come into play here. I'd not be messing with more than one drug at a time. For instance, why not stay on your stable xanax dose, and find out the right suboxone dose? Don't mess with lasix or any other drug levels until you are solid on suboxone.

If you change too many things at once, you don't really know what is causing what.

I don't know if any of this makes sense, or is an option. Best of luck to you.

--LD


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:33 pm 
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Hatmaker, I agree. I too thought it was a panic attack that night when I finally calmed down. I feel horrible LatheDude and Hatmaker, b/c my Xanax dose is much much higher. :oops: I'm really beginning to believe I tried to taper off the xanax too fast. I've been taking xanax for 11 years and worked my way up to 3-4mg a DAY. I'm so ashamed to even tell anyone that. Now, I tried to go down to just .5 to 1mg a day and I think I'm trying too hard too fast to get off the xanax.

I told my Sub doctor that I was tapering off the xanax and she said 2mg is where I need to stay for two weeks, then 1.5, then 1, and so on. I honestly thought it would be alot harder to taper off the Hydros than the Xanaxes, but it seems vice versa.

As for the water retention, I did next to nothing all weekend and kept my feet propped above heart level and the swelling has went down alot. Im drinking alot of water, 60-70oz, and avoiding high sodium foods.
I wish more than anything that I could go without taking anything all day.I know we all wish for that, but it just seems like God is testing me on this. After explaining to my Sub doc my addcition to pain pills, how on Earth could she reccomend that I go back to them?
I'm lost. But I do know one thing: I am NOT going back to pain pills! It seemed like this weekend I was finally getting close to "normal". My son desserves a mother that isn't dependent on a stupid stupid drug! :x


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:00 pm 
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Jin, please don't feel bad. I was on xanax for maybe 4 years and in the end I was prescribed 6 mg a day and I was taking more than that. When I went off them, I was in the hospital and was given phenobarbital for the xanax withdrawals, because opiate w/d may be hell, but benzo w/d can be deadly. So PLEASE go very slowly on your taper, ok? Keep us posted on how you're doing, and please go easy on yourself. Take care and post as often as you need to.

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-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:38 pm 
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Thanks Hatmaker. The support here is unbelievable. And Lathedude is right. I have too many variables. I feel like a walking drug store with all the heartburn, constipation, water retention, opiate antagonist,anxiety, and anti-depression medicines in my freakin purse! It's like I'm 80 years old. I'm not giving up. I'm hoping that by the end of this week my dosing will be regulated. :?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:13 am 
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Jin,

I want to help cause I can relate to you. Now, I'm not a Dr. but I think it's kind of dangerous to be mixing those 3 drugs you are on. It's never safe to mix benzos and opiates...the Xanax is a benzo and the Suboxone is a partial-opiate antagonist. Accidental overdoses occur when those two are mixed in high amounts...I don't think you're taking that much, however, it is making you sick. I'm on Welbutrin as well as Suboxone and I do just fine. At first I had bad side effects including headaches, sweating, and lots of swelling. :shock: If you give it some time, most of those side effects will subside as your body becomes tolerant to the Subs. Drink lots of water to help with the swelling. My ankles disappeared at first...they are back now. I can recommend THE BEST laxative that was recommended to me by my Dr. I went to her and complained that nothing and I me nothing worked for me! :evil: I tried everything under the sun and nothing was helping. The laxatives hurt my stomach too. Try Miralax...it really brings you back to your natural rhythm. :wink: Use the name brand too, it works the best. The only generic brand that I felt works just as well as the name brand is Walgreen's version. I did a trial and error with other generics and they didn't work nearly as well. Be patient too, it takes like 4 days before you start to see it working. You can put a dose of powder in any drink (it's tasteless and dissolves really well). I put it in my coffee in the morning. Just one dose a day and you'll start to be regular. It doesn't hurt your stomach either. Trust me, I got my husband on the routine too (he's on Suboxone as well) and he thanks me all the time. I know it might not be easy but maybe you could start to wean yourself off of the Xanax, just like opiates, Xanax can easily get out of control and become an addiction. One of the benefits of Suboxone is it really helps improve the mood! To me, it's a better anti-depressant than the Welbutrin! Maybe Suboxone can help you with anxiety so you don't need the Xanax. :roll: I'm just giving the best advice I have, you obviously don't have to take it. I've just learned a lot through my years on drugs/being around drugs. I hope this helps and I wish you the best! :lol:

~Skyler [font=Century Gothic] [/font] [font=Century Gothic] [/font]


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:39 am 
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I just need to clarify that bupe is a partial AGONIST. Perhaps when you say "antagonist" you're thinking of the naloxone that is in suboxone (but not in subutex).

Just wanted to clarify that.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:27 pm 
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Hello,

I haven't posted much on this forum but I love it. I wanted to share something about weaning off benzos. I was taking a high dose of xanax/klonopin or valium regularly and my doctor had me switch to valium to taper off. He said with the longer half-life it is much easier and he was right. I was scared to death about it but he started me on like 10 mg/day and gradually over 6 months and 10 days brought it down and down (1 month per dosage) and the last 40 days was every other day at a very low dose and done. I couldn't believe how easy it was. I was advised to give up caffeine during the process and it helped a lot. I think it was 10/7.5/5/2.5/1.25/1.25 e/o day (in mg's)

Also, life without benzos turned out to be much better than with them.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:24 pm 
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Hi! Sorry you are having a rough time. I can vouch for the fact that the ankle swelling will go away. For me it actually took a couple of months. My ankles totally disappeared as well.

In terms of the other stuff....I have also heard you cannot take benzos with sub but that also depends on your tolerance level. It has to do with respiratory depression issues when combined. But if your doctor is aware of it then you should be just fine and clearly you are. I agree with a SLOW taper off the benzos. Especially with how long you have been on them.

Take it easy. Sub takes time to get used to but I think most people do get used to it. The first few weeks can be difficult, especially going from vicodin to sub since vicodin isn't quite as strong as some of the other opiates out there.

Meditation is EXTREMELY useful. I always thought it was ridiculous until I understood it and now I rely on it. Of course the therapist had to show me the research studies in order to get my buy in. But now I am a total believer.

I hope you stick around. There is a lot of great support here and great people.

Cherie

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Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.

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 Post subject: SIDE EFFECTS
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:23 am 
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I have been taking SUBX tabs for about 9 months. I noticed sleeplessness of course but has anyone had RANDOM times when you feel like you really need a nap...like a power nap but with a much stronger urge to sleep. Also, MY BODY ACHES!!! I'm 36 and have an old back injury but it is so bad sometimes that I have a hard time getting out of bed. It is at times ALMOST unbearable to the point of tears. I take ambien for sleep but I get MAYBE 5 hours TOPS if I take 20mgs of ambien. I used to take 80-140mgs of Hydro or Oxy codone a day. Does anyone else have these odd body aches??


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:35 am 
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Yes. I too feel an overwhelming sleepiness and require more naps than usual. It's no biggie. I can still study fine, & work. I'm sorry about your swelling however. That I haven't suffered. However, it's hard to tell the exact cause when there are other medications involved. Have you tried swimming, or hydrotherapy? I've been doing laps in the local pool lately and it gets rid of my joint pain completely for the rest of the day.

There's no magic pill out there. It doesn't matter what you're on, be they medication for pain, psychiatric med, anti-virals or chemotherapy. Everything has side effects. Even the drugs we took that landed us on suboxone had shocking side effects. For me, heroin caused intense depression, sleepiness, sweating, insomnia, bad dreams, constipation. It was really expensive. No doctor prescribed it & insurance sure as hell didn't cover it (though other people's home & contents insurance helped) I'm sure if there was a "heroin" forum and it was legally prescribed like suboxone, there'd be a bunch of people coming on complaining about all sorts of side effects.

You just gotta weigh it up. Is your life more manageable and are you happier now on the suboxone than in active addiction? If it isn't, then by all means go nuts on the vicodin? If it is, then as they say, "suck it up princess" :D (I'll leave the compassion and sympathy for people like hatmaker)


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