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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:10 pm 
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To be completely fair, I must point out that the post that was quoted by me above was an older post. My most recent post was conveniently and utterly ignored. In that post, I gave a link to the FDA and suggested that the people who have this problem consider reporting it to the FDA.

I also want to point out that there is a difference between a correlation and cause and effect. Those familiar with the scientific method, I'm sure, are already aware of this. For example, in the summer, ice creams sales increase and so does the rate of murders. So does that mean that eating ice cream causes more murders? No, of course not, but it does indicate a correlational relationship, but not a causal relationship. Therefore, when things are linked, people must take care to consider whether the relationship is a correlation or cause and effect.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:31 am 
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wow'. what you said "DR junig is what i was going to and wanted to say :lol: i don't see it being said any better than that!!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:56 am 
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The issue I had about coming to any conclusion about tooth decay... is that as has been said by Dr. J and Hatmaker... tooth decay takes years to develop. I can't think of any real long term studies into Suboxone at all, let alone a study specifically on the subject long enough to come to any conclusion. Clinical trials go for... 3 months usually? 6 months rarely? If tooth decay is a side-effect of buprenorphine for some people, it isn't about to appear on any of the PI sheets...


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:43 am 
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If a side effect is to be studied/analyzed, then people need to start reporting the effects to the FDA and let them to their thing. Otherwise it will just continue to be people simply talking about it. Why do only that when one can easily do something about it - i.e., take action/be proactive?

Also, there's a website that keeps track of side effects reported. http://www.ehealthme.com/q/suboxone-sid ... teractions

This link is already set for the results of Suboxone and lists 6,155 reports of side effects. As you can see, if you scroll down the page, there is an alphabetical listing to search for specific side effects of suboxone. You can go to the "T"'s for teeth/tooth and check for reported side effects. There are several categories related to teeth and I didn't check all of them, but I did check a couple/three of them and didn't find any reports of issues with teeth on this website.
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The website is (from their home page):

"eHealthMe answers 2 questions "what patients like me report my drugs?" and "which treatment is better for patients like me?"

On eHealthMe, healthcare professionals and patients can study 40 million latest outcomes of 45,000 drugs, vitamins and supplements since 1977 from FDA and community. You can personalize the study to any gender or age, and drill down to any outcome or interacting drug. To date, 9,148,683 people have studied on eHealthMe and 2 million visit us each month. Check now, it's SIMPLE & FREE.

Our original studies have been referenced on many medical publications..."


Obviously these side effects are self-reported, but aren't they all? Since lots of people apparently check this site, again, I'd encourage anyone with these problems to start taking action and being proactive. If enough people report the same side effect to the FDA, the higher the chance that it will either a) be studied and b) have the possible side effect listed along with the others.

Also, on eHealthme, you can leave comments and I think you can also sign up to list side effects you have experienced. I haven't tried it though. But again, if no one does anything or fails to reports anything, then obviously, no studies will ever happen, because the FDA and/or RB - basically no one - will even know of the need to study it.

And just to be cover the bases, again, here's the link to the FDA reporting site: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/ ... online.htm

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 Post subject: Report side effects
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:05 pm 
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Good post Hat, I forgot about reporting side effects.

Jeesh, I can't even give an opinion about tooth decay here because I've received radiation therapy to my mouth and that alone can and will destroy nice and healthy teeth if a patient is not vigil about going to the dentist and taking really good care of their teeth.

It just pisses me off because for over 20 years I have flossed every night before bed. Yes, you heard it right, every night! In those 20+ years I think I missed maybe 4 times due to camping and travelling and forgetting to pack the floss. Not a bad average though. The reason I did take such good care of my teeth was because I had periodontal issues and was told that by age 50 I would not have one tooth left. Ha! I showed him. I'm 58 now and have only lost one molar two years ago.

But now with having the radiation, all my hard work may go down the toilet. Most dentists don't like to treat rad patients because the cavities come in on the gum line and they are hard to fill so I need to find one that knows about it and will treat it. If I do have to have a tooth pulled then I will need to have 30 HBO treatments beforehand. HBO is the hyberbaric oxygen chamber just like Micheal Jackson had. Then after pulling the tooth I'll need at least 30 or more treatments in the chamber so my jaw will heal. Sound fun?

Sorry for the off topic information but I doubted if anyone here knew about radiation treatment and tooth decay. It is something I will battle until my death. F#*king cancer!

Rule

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Last edited by rule62 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:36 pm 
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Rule, my man, YOU are a WARRIOR!!! You inspire me to no end!! I really admire the way you're fighting the cancer and the fact that you maintain such a great attitude is amazing!!

BTW, you said that you were 58 years old.....you don't look a day over 40 in that picture of you in your avatar!! :D

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:25 pm 
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Onya Rule. That sure puts everything into a bigger perspective.

I wish you well with your treatment. I'm sure you're no stranger to life's battles.


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 Post subject: Moderators
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:00 pm 
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Moderators should be nothin more than admins that OBSERVE and ensure rules are followed. Moderators are not experts but people that love being on the computer enough to moderate the forum. Far far far to often, Moderators get big heads and act like masters of forums that can do no wrong...then they punish you if you disagree with one word they say (I'm not talking about this forum)

Now to moderators on this forum. Most are fine, some tend to "play expert" and give advice that is indeed wrong...anyone on the forum should be smart enough to not believe any info from and source unless you first verify it.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:17 pm 
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Hey Tndb,

Just for the record, I couldn't disagree more with you in so far as moderators just being observers. I love the fact that the moderators on this site share their experience and wisdom with us. The mod's on this site, as far as I'm concerned, are very knowledgeable regarding the subject matter they comment on.

As far as any of our current mod's "playing expert", I just don't see it? I see our current mod's trying to help out a bunch of recovering addicts, I see them giving their time and I think they do a really good job.

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 Post subject: Re: Moderators
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:48 pm 
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Tndb wrote:
Now to moderators on this forum. Most are fine, some tend to "play expert" and give advice that is indeed wrong...anyone on the forum should be smart enough to not believe any info from and source unless you first verify it.


You just got done telling Boxer, on another thread, that he doesn't have to worry about providing any links
to something Amber was interested in knowing about. She simply asked for links. Now you are saying that anyone on the forum should be smart enough to verify their information. Isn't that what Amber was doing, by asking for links???

I agree with Romeo....

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:29 pm 
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I can feel the love in here today
:-) :-)
you know......without some kind of moderator or moderatorS around
this forum would be OVER-run with crap like
suboxone causes permanent brain damage,
and not to mention TROLLS


Nobody really likes authority, I dont think


but sometimes it's a necessary evil.
Just like lots of people say they "HATE COPS"
but somebody comes busting down your front door,,


who do YOU call?

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 Post subject: Re: Moderators
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:40 pm 
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Tndb wrote:
Moderators should be nothin more than admins that OBSERVE and ensure rules are followed. Moderators are not experts but people that love being on the computer enough to moderate the forum. Far far far to often, Moderators get big heads and act like masters of forums that can do no wrong...then they punish you if you disagree with one word they say (I'm not talking about this forum)

Now to moderators on this forum. Most are fine, some tend to "play expert" and give advice that is indeed wrong...anyone on the forum should be smart enough to not believe any info from and source unless you first verify it.


I disagree with you too Tndb. I'm glad that the moderators here feel enough of an interest to get involved in actively answering questions (to the best of their ability) and making sure that posters here know that someone is reading what they wrote. I have not noticed any current moderators trying to "play expert".

Anyone with half a brain can tell that you only commented on this thread to get another dig in at Amber, btw. You can deny it all you want, but it is obvious. And I don't think you're going to get very far by going after her. Anyone who has been around here for a while knows that Amber truly cares about people and does her best to provide answers and links to answers to people who are distressed and hurting. She's not the one who comes off sounding condescending here.

Amy

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:42 pm 
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Moderating is a thankless job but takes a special kind of person. I help moderate one of the top 40 forums in the world. It's really large but after years and years it really feels like a small world. I have known some of the people on this forum (a fashion type site) longer and better than some people in my everyday life. Our site is pretty strict as far as not allowing spammers, multiple user names, trolling, etc. I can tell you one thing, it was a real learning curve learning to balance the needs of the members with my own needs. Many members thought that once you were a moderator you had to take off your member hat and observe. That didn't sit well with me because I was just as passionate about the subjects being discussed and I wanted to participate like everyone else.

What me and a group of moderators on that other site learned (and sometimes the hard way) is that mods have to be held to an even higher standard. We can't dog pile on a member for talking back or disagreeing, in fact, we often tend to give more rope in these circumstances just to prove that we aren't quick to ban/ warn for personal reasons. It sucks sometimes.. because some members are really asking for it but we often bite our tongues and take some crap for the better of the forum. Members do not respond well to heavy handed moderators. Members need to feel like they are heard and are safe to express what they're thinking/ feeling as long as the forum's TOS are being respected. In order for a member to get a warning (or ban) they need to have broken a clear rule.

I don't pretend to know what happened here and am not expressing judgement, just sharing what has helped me over time. A moderator (of any forum) is no more an expert at anything than any other member, just willing to donate time to help the forum. A moderator can't expect to participate like every other member and then choose when to put the mod hat on. A forum wide rule about no disagreements with moderators (specifically) is a bad way to run a forum.

If anything, the rules should state that members are to be respectful to everyone and any hostile disagreements should be taken to PM and handled in private.

JMO. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:34 pm 
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Oxynsexaddict wrote:
I can feel the love in here today
:-) :-)
you know......without some kind of moderator or moderatorS around
this forum would be OVER-run with crap like
suboxone causes permanent brain damage,
and not to mention TROLLS


Nobody really likes authority, I dont think


but sometimes it's a necessary evil.
Just like lots of people say they "HATE COPS"
but somebody comes busting down your front door,,


who do YOU call?


"Who do you call' GHOST BUSTERS


Tndb you have no clue what your talking about. The mods on this site give so much time and effort to help us and try there best to give the best information possible, with links to back it up. Unlike you! Whats wrong someone called you out on your bullshit knowledge so now you are attacking one of our best mods. And hatmaker is no longer a mod so the expert has left the building.

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 Post subject: Humm
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:58 pm 
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Someone is drinking the kool-aid


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 Post subject: Humm
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:01 pm 
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Someone is drinking the kool-aid. One question...what Medical School/Pharmacy school did the Moderator go to? That's why they are ADMINs, not authority figures


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 Post subject: Rules
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:17 pm 
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If I break the rules suspend or boot me..that's what an admin/moderator does on a TRUE forum. When moderators give more input than the fourm users, it will prevent some users from weighing in on issues...especially when the moderator is always telling people that they are wrong or right! I have been on Bupe for 1.5 years and know a hell of alot about it because I do my own research! I'm giving my opinion in this "freestyle" section that is not so different than other sections cause the moderators are up and arms! Wow. Point proven


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:22 pm 
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I think the only point you proved is that you don't know what you're talking about. Job well done!!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:36 pm 
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"* Show respect for the decisions of others and avoid personal attacks."

Yeah, so this guideline is not being followed (by members on all sides.) This is where a moderator would come in and suggest people voice their opinions in a respectful way or not at all. And that any personal issues can be taken to PM.

When other members come in and see this type of back and forth, they will assume it's ok to speak to each other like this. There is a way to use words without hurling insults in every direction. Learning to communicate in a clear and productive way is not just beneficial for forum surfing but for your life as a whole. Ok, I'll just be quiet now.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:13 pm 
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This is the Freestyle section, part of the reason this section was added was so that we could all blow off some steam.

Learning to communicate in a clear and productive manner is a wonderful thing, but sometimes we just need to let loose a little bit.

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