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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:48 am 
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/11/heal ... ction.html

I read this article and became so disturbed by the political push for Vivitrol, especially within drug courts and other legal arenas. Let me be clear, I have nothing against Vivitrol and if people choose to get that treatment and it helps, that is great, but it is being marketed to law enforcement as a drug for "people who really want to be clean" ( not an exact quote).

Law enforcement professionals are having their belief that buprenorphine and methadone are just drug substitutions reinforced. They see people on Suboxone and Methadone as still being high, despite the person's full ability to function and participate in society. Meanwhile, while there is a lot of scientific evidence for the effectiveness of buprenorphine and Methadone in treating opioid addiction and virtually no evidence for Vivitrol's effectiveness and plenty of problems with it.

This is just ass backward thinking. Vivitrol representatives are actually marketing to judges? I don't even see how that is legal let alone ethical. Since when do judges diagnose and treat drug addicts. Drug addiction is medical disorder and any treatments should be voluntarily made by the patient with his/her doctor. And I fear that the popular view will shift to seeing Vivitrol as a "good" drug basically just because it is an antagonist. I fear that buprenorphine and Methadone will face more and more restrictions simply because it may be more appealing to have addicts off all medications. When Vivitrol results in relapses then someone will somehow blame it on the Suboxone and Methadone on the street.

What do others think? Am I missing something, or just overly worried?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/11/heal ... ction.html


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:17 am 
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Isn't the world health organization saying that methadone and bupe are the essential medications to treat opioid dependence? I've tried vivitrol so many times, it helped with cravings until about day 21, then cravings spiked like never before. It's expensive too.

My thing is, I only know one person who does methadone maintenance, and every time I see him it looks like he's on heroin. His pupils are pinned and he's nodding. But I swear he's only on methadone. It makes him dopey. I swear he's getting a buzz off the methadone. He probably just tells them to keep upping his dose so he's high all day, people like him who get a buzz off methadone might be why LEO doesn't want people on it


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:56 pm 
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I totally see what the Vivitrol ppl are doing and shame on them.

I personally would not take this shot. It's offered at my clinic. I have no problems with ppl who do take the shot but it's just not for me. If it helps ppl that's great, but every person at my clinic who I have spoken to that's taken it, got very sick for awhile after their first shot. They waited somewhere around 4-7 days with nothing and still got sick. So ur suffering with nothing for a week just to take it then u may get sick afterwards anyway? I've also heard the cravings aren't really taken care of. It just doesn't seem to compare to suboxone. All that's fine and dandy regardless because to each their own, but to make buprenorphine seem like bad treatment isn't cool. It's just creating more stigma and it already has enough.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:16 pm 
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jennjenn wrote:
I totally see what the Vivitrol ppl are doing and shame on them.

I personally would not take this shot. It's offered at my clinic. I have no problems with ppl who do take the shot but it's just not for me. If it helps ppl that's great, but every person at my clinic who I have spoken to that's taken it, got very sick for awhile after their first shot. They waited somewhere around 4-7 days with nothing and still got sick. So ur suffering with nothing for a week just to take it then u may get sick afterwards anyway? I've also heard the cravings aren't really taken care of. It just doesn't seem to compare to suboxone. All that's fine and dandy regardless because to each their own, but to make buprenorphine seem like bad treatment isn't cool. It's just creating more stigma and it already has enough.


Oh my god thanks for bringing this up! I totally forgot that that was actually the reason I stopped taking vivitrol! I got sick as a dog the first week after taking it each month, even though I was clean from opiates for a while. It was like the aches and pains of heroin withdrawal, massive headaches, a sore pain in the butt, general sickness and I still craved. I said I got clean so I wouldn't always be sick...


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:31 pm 
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Hey folks,
Do yourselves a favor and go over to Dr Junigs Bupe Tube and watch "Suboxone vs Vivitrol " I wont even try
to give you the high points here, but he explains it as only Dr JJ can. You will learn how it is and Why it seems to be everyones "darling " these days.
Expensive and in some ways dangerous. . Or you can find it on his Ytube channel.

Razor


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:44 pm 
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Where I'm from, they did a LOT of research into naltrexone vs existing treatments (Suboxone and methadone). Hardly any doctors prescribe naltrexone for opioid addiction down here anymore, and the doctors that do are considered controversial and renegade. The simple reason is that, long term, people treated with naltrexone seem to die a LOT more than people treated with Suboxone or methadone. The simple fact that us people on Sub / methadone carry around a protective opioid tolerance from day to day, seems to keep us alive. People given naltrexone are instantly put into an opioid naive state once the naltrexone wears off - ie a shot of opioids will have the same effect on them as a person who's never taken opioids, ever.

The problem with this is that given most opioid addicts relapse eventually, those who were on naltrexone seem to overdose and die, while those who were on Suboxone or methadone stay alive because of their existing tolerance.

What these judges fail to understand is it is the opioid agonist effect of Suboxone and methadone that is keeping people like us alive. Without that effect, we are sitting ducks for overdose.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:25 pm 
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Right on Tee Jay..


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