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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 9:06 pm 
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In my new city, there's a fair bit of this stuff going on.

I'm not interested in doing it myself given I'm not a sociopath. Past experience has shown me that I'm incapable of being involved with drugs while staying clean. My theory is you have to be a bit sociopathic in order to be able to remain clean off drugs, while still being involved in that dark industry.

What are your thoughts hive-mind?


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 12:12 pm 
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I completely agree Teejay,


In my perimeter (southeast Michigan), it is absolutely everywhere. This reminds me of something in particular that was occurring over the past few months. A woman moved in next door with her 24 year old daughter, every single day, 20 or so different guys would come to her house at different times of the day, & almost every time the guys left, they would be outside of their house higher than kites. We've called the cops so many times due to them disturbing the peace, prostitution and drug distribution... I lost count. I'm not kidding, we would hear these girls screaming & moaning at all night/every single night. When the morning came around, they would be sitting outside nodding out & falling on the porch. One day, I was outside with Avii (my dog) & the "mom" comes out & says hi to me. I, not wanting to be rude, said hello back. She then proceeded to speak about her living situation in that house as well as her daughter. By the way, everytime I seen her daughter she would be outside like almost break dancing she'd be so high. I casually asked her how they pay for the rent if they aren't working, she said she has "friends" that help her pay for her expenses. I knew INSTANTLY what they were doing. She also claimed that they weren't taking drugs, but instead they both had bi polar disorder. (HAHAHA yeah, bi polar disorder makes you nod out & tweak, right?) This kept happening for 2-3 months. But last week was the last draw. She came to my house, high as hell trying to make conversation with my husband. I wasn't having it. The next day, I seen them moving their stuff out & shooting us dirty looks. Did I mention that the owner of that house was in on it? He was there every single day spending hours at a time with them in that house. The guy is married & has kids. He & his family also live around the block. So my husband seen the owner the day before yesterday & gave him a piece of both our minds. The next day, the whore next door & her nasty ratchet "daughter" moved out. I called the police maybe 30 times since they had been there, they only showed up once when I seen the "mom" overdosing. There's no doubt in my mind that the house right next door was used as a whore/drug house. This is the first day that they have been gone, & were so happy! I don't know if this is what you were looking for, Teejay, but it reminded me of my situation that my husband and I were in. It's relevant because the woman claimed that they didn't take drugs, nor sold them.



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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 3:22 pm 
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I went from being on the inside of law enforcement (working in that field for 10 years) and being married to a police officer, to after being on drugs for a few months I broke the law in any way I could to get my fix. Now that I look bk at those experiences and going to jail, I cannot even imagine how I did it or had enough courage or stupidity to do all the things I did in active addiction. No way could I do those things in my present clear mind. No way.

In my opinion, the drugs and the desperation coaxed me into doing that. The deep pit in my stomach when I knew I had no money to get my pills for that day is what made it necessary for my mind to switch to survival mode. When I say survivor mode I’m meaning in my brain during that time, it was justified to have to break the law because I couldn’t go without or feel that obsession for long without doing anything to stop that awful feeling. It’s hard to explain or put into words because unless you’ve been there it’s hard to understand that headspace.

I’ve done a lot of bad things. I’ve stolen from family, stores and hit the pawnshops. I’ve written bad checks by the tons to get cash. I’ve broken into a store at night with the store owners daughter. I’ve doctor shopped all the way to Florida to get oxycodone. I’ve went to rental places and get items to take straight to pawnshops. I never did anything sexual for pills because I always had a man by my side who was also an addict. I stole from drug dealers and sold other addicts fake pills. I’ve stolen pills from everyone including my grandmother. I’ve done a lot but I know there’s been much worse I could have done. But now after I’m not in active addiction, NO WAY could I do that now. Even if I wanted to, I wouldn’t have the nerve to do it. Those that could do that and not be motivated by drugs, imo would have to be something deeper going on in their head.

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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 5:50 pm 
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I just always think that in different circumstances I could have gone so low, so I try not to judge what others are doing to get their fix. I think we could all sit around in a circle and say, "I broke my moral code at least a hundred different ways, but at least I never did THAT!" And THAT could be anything. Are we really any better than other addicts though?

TeeJay, the other type of person who could deal drugs without being an addict themselves or a sociopath is probably a libertarian type person. Maybe having a mindset that adults should be able to do what they want without government interference would a motivation for a "values" dealer. Of course, they would have to keep from selling to minors to make the case that they aren't causing any harm.

Any other opinions??

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:54 am 
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I’ll tell ya, now that I’ve experienced what desperation and obsession through addiction is like, when I see or hear about others stealing or something illegal because of addiction, I 100% understand their mindset and I also in a way of my own, sympathize with them.

My parents will hear about a person stealing something and getting caught, they get upset and say the normal things ppl would say about someone who’s stolen something, then there’s me where I usually feel sorry for the victim AND the culprit.... because I know what they were probably feeling when they did it. I get so upset with my nephew at times but I understand it. It’s a weird thing to feel and it’s a confusing way to feel. You don’t want to excuse the illegal behavior by any means but you also know that more than likely the person wouldn’t have done it if they weren’t in that drug fueled survival mode.

I don’t excuse every bad thing an addict does, but I understand a lot of the reasons why they did it. Unless it’s murder or something like that..... I’m not talking about understanding someone doing that because obviously there’s no excuse for anyone doing anything as severe as that.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 2:10 pm 
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And, on the other hand, we can understand without condoning. It's not a black and white issue for sure.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:25 pm 
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Hey guys,


Look, I wasn't trying to judge the women next door, but if you guys seen what I had seen, you all would've thought the same things. I too have done wrong things to make sure that I had my fix. But something like that, where you have 30 guys coming in day & night, & her own daughter is in on it too, it makes you feel terrible for those people. They would be up all night screaming & hollering, it was horrible. She would also come out onto her porch stripping naked. I'm NOT kidding. She would get naked. She also let her puppy outside & she wasn't watching him, the dog ran almost into the street & was gonna get hit by a car. I went out there & grabbed the puppy ( I should've kept him, now I feel guilty that I didn't.) & Knocked on her door. The screen door was open, & I said "hello, your dog almost got ran over" I heard no reply. I knocked again, & heard nothing. I then opened the door & simply put the dog in the house & left.


Again you guys, I also understand the mindset of an addict. I'm not saying that I'm a perfect person & I shouldn't judge, but what I have seen over the last few months coming from the "mother & daughter" was absolutely horrifying. After they left, my husband went & talked to the new owners of that house, (the previous owner who I think was pimping the women sold the house) he said the house smelled so terrible, that their was dog crap everywhere, condom wrappers all over the place, basically that it was a shithole. Again, this is the house right next door to ours. I'm so glad that they left & I hope that they get the help they need.


Ash

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 12:27 am 
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Nope, hon. We aren't judging you at all for being upset that you have a whorehouse next door! Who wouldn't be upset by that?? I was only talking about my own perspective, not judging anyone else's. Don't you worry!

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:55 pm 
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I mean, maybe I shouldn't use such explicit terms, in case you guys haven't noticed, I put alot of "passion" in my words! Anywho, there's a nice family moving in next door. The husband & I are very happy about it!



Ash

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:28 pm 
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Uno, im reading the tital of the tthread T J asks. What I think he is asking are People IN recovery or Claiming to be BUT are clean and living a addicts behavior Life..ie drug dealing mostly. Or any number of things that are not part of a clean type lifestyle. No one works a prefect program but I get it. And with thoses of us on buperenorphine it really burns my ass when I see members of clinic claiming time and workin the program, yet sell or buy there meds. Sociopaths? maybe .... ALL the shame, all the bad feelings and worse, all the misunderstandings about our Suboxone comes from DIVERSION....ALLof It....And it kills people. thats right Kills. Why? Because the attitudes of family,friends and the general public see it as just another drug of the street... pittiful...... Raz


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 11:46 am 
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Razor,

The gal (she & her "daughter" moved about a week ago) next door told me that she was in recovery & wasn't using anything, that her daughter had a mental illness & the owner of the house was letting them live there til they "got back on their feet". The day after, I see the broads going up to random cars, getting in them for a few mins, making a transaction, then they get out & go back in. It was either that, or a bunch of different guys (I'm talking 30 guys throughout the day) were going in that house for like an hour then leaving. 10 mins after that, they were nodding out on the porch. This was all day/night. Literally all hours of the jight, we would hear sex noises. I can't tell you how many times I've called the police. The only time the police came was when I called about the "mom" overdosing on the porch.

After they left & the owner of the house (I'm assuming he was either pimping those girls or he was in on it in some way) sold the house to a nice man, we heard that he wants to move a nice family in & he wants to completely redo the house. My husband went there, walked into the house, & seen some pretty disgusting things. He didn't tell me this til yesterday for whatever reason, but there were Suboxone wrappers all over the floor. Not just that, but needles, cigarette buts, secretions, fallen respect/dignity, & dog crap. How someone could live that way, I have no idea. We decided that when we get some extra cash, we're gonna build a fence all over our house. Thanks for the reply (finally!) Razor.


Ash

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:15 pm 
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I wasn’t talking about anything you mentioned Ashlee. I was talking about addiction and how I usually sympathize for the addicts and the victims. I wasn’t talking about your post.

Razor, yeah I think I probably got off topic a bit, or at least to the side lol.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 2:12 pm 
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My bad Jenn!

I don't want you to think I'm a mean person or anything, I'm actually a pretty nice person & would help anyone if I knew that I could! I felt so bad for those women, because they were mother & daughter. Hopefully they get the help that they truly need & recover. :)


Ash

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:04 am 
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No problem at all Ashlee! No worries :)

Trust me, my neighborhood has a couple run down looking places down the street and there’s ppl staying in one without electricity or water. It’s already 90 degrees here with horrible humidity so I have no idea how they’ll stand it in a few weeks. There’s probably 4-6 ppl give or take that’s there. I just feel they’re addicts. They walk past our house constantly because some lady that must be family or something lives on up the street, so they walk all day every day. Yesterday one guy was staggering bk and forth blown out of his mind. You can hear screaming and fighting a lot. I hate it! I absolutely want to just go run them out of there myself. Even though I believe they’re addicts and I feel for them, there’s another side of me that wants them to go away and doesn’t care what their situation is. It really is a conflicting way to feel.

But I wasn’t talking about you and how you felt. Honestly, everyone has the right to feel how they want to, so don’t ever feel bad. It’s how you feel. We all know that addicts in active addiction can’t really be trusted and they can get rowdy and annoying.... I know I was during that time. So who could blame ya for not wanting that as a neighbor, I sure don’t like it even though I do have empathy for them.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:59 am 
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Hey guys,
I think I know what TeeJay meant by the title. I will explain my story and experience with this...

A few years ago, about 3 months after I got clean/on Suboxone, I was shopping at Walmart and it was right before Christmas. I used to steal all the time when I was using but this was the first time I had done it since I got clean... I didn’t even think about it, just because I would always do it all the time I just did it. I didn’t think twice, I saw something I wanted and I didn’t agree with the price tag, I felt entitled and had no respect for the stores or companies that have items on the shelves. I thought I was good at stealing because I had literally been doing it everywhere, for YEARS, and I never got caught before.

Well this time I DID get caught. I was even more embarrassed and ashamed because I was in recovery and was supposed to be doing all the “right” things. They busted me On my way out of the store and took me into the security room. I had to give them my ID and empty my purse completely and they called the cops immediately. I never actually got put in handcuffs but I did have to go to court. I paid for a good lawyer that I had used in the past (for driving with weed paraphernalia).. the lawyer sweet talked the judge and got me to do this alternate program where I had to do community service and some type of class for troublemakers and pay a bunch of fines. I paid to have the charges expunged from my record, but I’m not sure I actually believe that.

Needless to say, that scared the shit out of me, and I learned early on that you can definitely be in recovery, but still ACT like an addict. We know when we are doing “right” and “wrong”... I had to go through this to truly see that there was much more I needed to change. And although that whole experience sucked and caused so much embarrassment, shame and guilt... it totally made my recovery THAT much stronger!! I’d love to hear of other people with similar experiences who had to learn the “hard way”. We ALWAYS have something about ourselves that we can improve and I’m actually grateful for this experience.

I think if I never got caught, I would’ve continued to steal. I always thought I would never get caught, UNTIL I DID. but it made me work even harder on myself and I’m a better person today because of it. My RECOVERY is better because of it! It was like a huge slap in the face that showed me I needed to change my addict-like behaviors that I was still doing, even though I was not using anymore! I haven’t stolen a single thing since, and I know now that it is NOT worth the risk!

Let’s keep the his thread going with similar stories!!!

Jess

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 3:18 pm 
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Jenn,


Have you called the cops on these people? By the way, it's illegal for people to live in abandon homes/foreclosed homes! They are called looters!! When the women next door were still here, I think I called the cops about 30 times. They only showed up once, only when I reported the woman suffering from an overdose. You oughta try calling the cops... If you see the guy or anyone staggering like that, call 911 & report it as an overdose. They'll come right away!!! I learned that the hard way. As an addict myself, I do have sympathy for them, as I would never wish bad upon anyone!!!

The reason why I kept calling those girls whores because the "mom" was trying to hit on my husband. I don't take kindly to people trying to get sweet on my man candy. He's mine. He also doesn't condone prostitution. That, I could not accept. It's one thing when you're being rowdy & having 30 guys come to the place you reside for sexual favors (it's still ratchet & nasty) but it's a whole other ball game when she came to my husband. He actually laughed really hard in her face. He didn't tell me about it until they left, because he knows that I would've declared war.


Jess,


Your story will hopefully influence others out there to rid of the addict behaviors. One believes 100% that things happen for particular reasoning. It's really amazing that you stopped & are now on the right path Jess, I'm always here for ya girlfriend! I heard a saying the other day that really got me, but for the life of me I can't frickin remember it!!! I'm sure I'll think of it after I've written this post. Just know that we're here for you, I love you all & am eternally grateful for all of your support!!!


Ash

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 6:45 pm 
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Jess, one of the things I associate with addiction is doing things mindlessly without truly being present. I associate recovery with trying to be intentional.

I tell the story of being in recovery for a few years and then visiting my dad in PA one summer. He and his wife were out to eat, not knowing when I would get there. So what did I do? I brought in my luggage and then searched the house for opioids! I found 7 or 8 pills and had them hidden in my purse very quickly. Then I sat down on the guest bed and came back to my rational mind.

I'm like, what am I doing??? Why did I just do that?? I know that if I took them I wouldn't even feel it because of the buprenorphine. Then I thought back to my history of active addiction. The first time I took a percocet with the intention of getting high was at my dad's house. Visiting him after my mother suddenly died was extremely painful for several reasons. I wanted to numb out. I wanted to feel good. Every time I visited my dad in the next several years I had the thrill of finding pills I could take to feel good. My Great Aunt Be lived with my dad and she had a huge bottle of percocet. I always took some.

What I realized was that I was on autopilot when I went hunting for pills. It was my addict lizard brain that was in control because I hadn't made the effort to be present and mindful. I think that's what happened with you in the Walmart, Jess. You went into addict autopilot (addictpilot?) And this is why working on recovery is so important! It keeps us in our right mind, so to speak.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 11:34 am 
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I would steal from Walmart a lot during active addiction but was to scared to do it when my brain wasn’t being obsessed with using. For me, it was like I could justify it because I had to get that monkey off my back and if I didn’t then I was literally going to die. It was so intense that the fear of getting caught didn’t matter to me. As soon as that monkey was quiet, my nerve was at zero and I was too afraid to steal. But I can totally understand that autopilot thing, it does make sense for sure. Going to jail didn’t straighten my butt up though because I went to jail many times during active addiction but still kept on doing everything I was doing. Now, in recovery, if I was in jail..... I’d go insane! See I cannot do anything I did during active addiction, it’s like I had some kind of armor on..... opiate armor?


Ashlee, I’ve called the cops one time on these ppl for fighting. I literally saw about 4 guys chase another guy around the house with a pole. I could hear screaming so I assumed someone was dying and I called. Nothing was done. The reason I’m so against calling the police in my area is because they don’t do anything, they’ve been to this place before. And I guess there’s a loop hole in the looting thing because the person who used to live there was an addict too, so I’m assuming he’s given permission to these ppl to stay there. It’s all a tangled mess of crazy..... with no electricity or water. How they can stand it is beyond me and I honestly don’t expect it to be bearable much longer in this heat. We’ll see, but I know something has to give at some point.

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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:45 pm 
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Jenn,

When I called about the two gals next door several times, the cops kept giving me a number to call. I BLEW their phone up!!! But I then found out that the only way the cops will show up, is if it's an overdose. Call the cops everyday & report an overdose. Eventually, they will get sick of it & will leave, the city will ceize the house, the house will be searched & those "hills have eyes" quackjobs will be arrested. Or they'll be taken to a mental institution, who knows! The cops never do anything, so much for serve & protect, right?? I became disgusted with how quick they are to give you a ticket & fine you, but when it comes to us civilians needing protection or anything else, it's "oh I'm sorry, there's nothing we can do because they technically didn't break any laws" even though they're breaking a crap ton of laws. It's bullcrap!


Ash

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 11:31 am 
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In my area, if you call 911 and request an officer, they have to send one out. My issue is that they don’t do anything once they get there. They show up and leave after a few minutes. So they end up not doing anything when you do get em out there.

That’s crazy that the police in your area will only come if it’s an overdose! What kind of logic is that? Disturbing the peace..... public intoxication..... prostitution..... illegal drugs..... those aren’t good reasons? That’s insane. Lucky for you they moved!

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